View Full Version : Vegetable garden could send woman to jail
Maxamillion
7-9-11, 9:02pm
Has anyone seen this? Hard to believe.
http://www.grist.org/list/2011-07-08-michigan-woman-could-face-jail-time-for-growing-a-garden
When I come across articles and stories like this I get hot around the collar. Pathetic! So pathetic! I hope things come to a head, where the homeowner with the garden wins over, then I hope every... single... homeowner for blocks around tears up their front lawns and does the same!
Had a similar thing happen here a few days ago. A woman converted her lawn to wildlife habitat as we are encouraged to do; somone nearby did not like the "unkemmpt" look and turned her into code compliance. The city came out and whacked some of her yard down to the ground and then sprayed Roundup. Absolutely crazy!
I was the code enforcement officer for a small Texas city once. You wouldn't believe the stuff that people complain about. One person complained because a neighbor had planted pine trees on an empty lot that he owned next to his house, afraid that the pine trees would attract animals and pose a fire hazard. Sorry, no city ordinance against trees. Another complained about someone's dog barking at two o'clock in the morning, which I could understand, except that a few days later he complained about someone else's dog barking, but it was in another part of the city. It turned out he didn't live near any of them, and was apparently driving around town with his windows open, listening for dogs barking. They were probably barking because he was driving through the alley behind their house at two o'clock in the morning. Still another complained that her neighbor's pool hadn't been cleaned, but the pool was completely fenced in and she could see it only by hanging her head out of an upstairs window. Some people just need to get a life, I think.
I was also the director of the city's EMS service, the health inspector, the building inspector, and a lieutenant in the city's volunteer fire department.
gimmethesimplelife
7-10-11, 2:04am
This just depresses me to no end....Is there no common sense out there any more? Sometimes it seems as if there is not but I know that somewhere out there something sane in regards to these kinds of codes is happening, too. Rob
All anyone has to do is research Home Owner Associations and see the actions that supposedly sane neighbors can go to if they feel they are right and another person is not toeing the line. Well, I guess it does not have to be an HOA if you get the chance to see the English TV show on the most terrible neighbors ever. Enlightening.
Someone in our historic neighborhood came to a monthly meeting to complain that a homeowner across the street had unsightly window frames since there was peeling paint. Exactly what were we to do about it? (they did not know the rental owner was a City Council member and later President of the Council). I have found that more and more people want others to take care of all of their complaints.
There is a facebook page to show support for Julie Bass and her blog lists the city officials you can write or e-mail to protest. The story is gaining ground and being picked up by more and more news agencies. Hopefully, the town will back down. It is a silly, frivolous (and stupid) thing for the town to do. Geez.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Oak-Park-Hates-Veggies/184553881597878
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/oak-park-hates-veggies/
http://oakparkhatesveggies.wordpress.com/
This just seems ridiculous to me. I watched the video from FOX and the layout was very neat and tidy (I want the owner to put down some mulch though!) and looked attractive to me. What really bothered me was the interview with the city official in describing what was "common". "Common" ended up in being what everyone else was doing....he wants the community members to just all conform. There seems to be no place for uniqueness or originality in Oak Park. Good thing this man doesn't live in my neighborhood, he would have nightmares.
The interview with the woman who was against the raised beds (who's identity was hidden) revealed fake green grass carpet and a plastic lawn chair on her front porch, now that I would outlaw.
goldensmom
7-10-11, 12:03pm
I've read the article and listened to the woman relate her situation on the news. The older - and hopefully wiser - I become, the less some things make sense to me and this is a good example of one of those things.
Miss Cellane
7-10-11, 1:03pm
Well, as an opposing voice, she may, depending on your interpretation of "common," have broken the law. It's not so much that she planted vegetables, it's that there are rules in her town about what you can plant in your front yard.
She could have put the same vegetable garden in her back yard and had no problem at all.
Mind you, I'm all for vegetable gardens. I can't have one in my apartment, but I have tomatoes in containers growing on my back deck. But this woman should have checked her town ordinances before planting the garden.
And now I hope a lot of people in that town will campaign to get the rules changed so that vegetable gardens can be put on any suitable bit of yard you have.
Maxamillion
7-10-11, 1:22pm
Well, as an opposing voice, she may, depending on your interpretation of "common," have broken the law. It's not so much that she planted vegetables, it's that there are rules in her town about what you can plant in your front yard.
She could have put the same vegetable garden in her back yard and had no problem at all.
Mind you, I'm all for vegetable gardens. I can't have one in my apartment, but I have tomatoes in containers growing on my back deck. But this woman should have checked her town ordinances before planting the garden.
She did check the ordinances beforehand and there was nothing at all that said no to vegetables. The only thing she was able to find was rather vague and only said "suitable live plant material".
Miss Cellane
7-10-11, 1:49pm
She did check the ordinances beforehand and there was nothing at all that said no to vegetables. The only thing she was able to find was rather vague and only said "suitable live plant material".
Could you point me to your source, please? I've read about 10 different things and I can find references to them consulting the ordinances after the first complaint, but not before. That would change my opinion.
The real problem is that the ordinance is very sloppily written. "Suitable" and "common" are open to a wide range of interpretation. Clearly, at least one neighbor and one person employed by the town interpret the ordinance differently than the woman who planted the vegetables. I have no idea how the law goes about figuring who is right and who is wrong in a case like this.
I wonder if she had consulted with the town before planting, if she could have gotten the equivalent of a zoning variance for the garden before she planted. Then she wouldn't be in this mess over a few vegetables.
The real problem is that the ordinance is very sloppily written. "Suitable" and "common" are open to a wide range of interpretation.
Not to mention completely ridiculous. Most laws are enforced by discretion; the cop who stops you has the latitude to simply warn you for speeding rather than ticket you. The land use folks in this podunk MI town made a decision to be jerks hiding behind "the law" about the entire situation. I wonder how many of them had Grandmothers with Victory Gardens during WWII.
I hope she sues the ____ (fill in your favorite expletive here) out of the town and wins big time.
>>>There seems to be no place for uniqueness or originality in Oak Park.
Actually, having lived near there, I can tell that that is a fairly correct statement. BTW, much of Oak Park is full of trees. She may have had too much shade in her back yard for veggies.
Maxamillion
7-10-11, 9:23pm
Could you point me to your source, please? I've read about 10 different things and I can find references to them consulting the ordinances after the first complaint, but not before. That would change my opinion.
It was on her blog, here: http://oakparkhatesveggies.wordpress.com/2011/06/30/field-of-dreams-plus-a-recap/ Although the city planner guy is now saying he'd told her no from the beginning. So it's turned into a bit of he-said-she-said situation.
I remember wanting to be just like the popular kids in school.Then I got to know them. I am not a conformist and neither should anyone else.My yard is not perfectly groomed and have stacks of this and that here and there.No where near what some neighbors have. I also do not live in the city limits.You know that before the end of WWII that lawns were not "groomed" it became something for the returning soldiers to do when they came home then it became a contest specified or not. So to the woman "carry on" to her complaining neighbors "get a life and plant a vegetable garden because that maybe the only place you will get veggies in the future especially if you continue to be SNOBS.
Miss Cellane
7-11-11, 10:46am
Well, I've read her blog. And I still don't know what to think.
She says they never told her she couldn't plant vegetables. But they also didn't tell her that she could. She was told she could have "decorative plantings" (this is the term she uses in her blog) in the front yard. She chose to interpret that as "make the yard look pretty." So she got pretty trellises for the plants and did a little landscaping with pathways and the raised beds. But she did not plant decorative plants, she planted vegetables.
My own interpretation of "decorative plantings" is plants that are primarily grown and planted to be decorative. And while a vegetable garden can be a thing of beauty to the farmer, most vegetables are grown for food, not their appearance. So frankly, I think she pushed the envelope a bit on that interpretation.
On the other hand, the town could not produce a copy of the code when she requested it. What gives there? Someone had to have consulted something to give her the "decorative planting" rule. And someone's consulting something with all the language about "common" and "suitable" plantings. By refusing to let her see the code, the town isn't putting itself in a very good light.
Whoever told her "decorative plantings" may indeed have felt that he was telling her "no," because I don't think most people consider vegetables to be decorative plantings.
Really, this isn't about vegetables growing in a front yard. This is about how government works. A resident asked a question, got a somewhat vague answer, interpreted that answer in her own way and acted on it. Only then did the government realize the consequences of that vague answer, and it is now scrambling to do damage control. This could have been a decorative lawn sculpture or an unpermitted addition to the house or any of a number of things. People's sympathies are being aroused because vegetables seem so harmless.
When you chose to live in a community, you accept that there are rules you will need to follow. Ms. Bass seems to have found a rule that even the rule makers don't completely understand. And we are seeing the fallout from that.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. I don't think either side is completely in the right. There's massive amounts of interpretation on both sides. If this goes to court, it will be interesting to see how everything shakes out.
As I said upthread, I'm on the side of growing vegetables if that's what you want to do. But if the place where you choose to live has restrictions on where you can grow those vegetables, you have to make a choice. Grow the vegetables in the acceptable places, don't grow vegetables, or grow the vegetables where you want them and deal with the consequences. And if you don't like the rules where you live, either work to change the rules or move to a place where you can agree with the rules.
As I said upthread, I'm on the side of growing vegetables if that's what you want to do. But if the place where you choose to live has restrictions on where you can grow those vegetables, you have to make a choice. Grow the vegetables in the acceptable places, don't grow vegetables, or grow the vegetables where you want them and deal with the consequences. And if you don't like the rules where you live, either work to change the rules or move to a place where you can agree with the rules.
I think that's what she's doing. Sometimes the best way to change a rule is to refuse to follow it.
Well, as an opposing voice, she may, depending on your interpretation of "common," have broken the law. It's not so much that she planted vegetables, it's that there are rules in her town about what you can plant in your front yard.
Actually, the ordinance, from what I gather, is 'suitable'. The city planner stated suitable means common according to Merriam Webster, which has led to some pretty funny comments on the m-w.com entry for suitable: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suitable (I think he could make a case that it has an obsolete syn of 'similar' which wouldn't mean common but would refer to the previous elements in the list)
It is definitely a he-said/she-said at this point. If he did, in fact, tell her from the start that she shouldn't do it then I suppose you could view her as a rebellious rule-breaker. If, however, it's just a busybody neighbor then hopefully she'll get some other neighborhood support. After all, if everyone put a garden in then it would match his interpretation of suitable as common.
If it does go to court, I highly doubt we'll read a headline of 'mother of five sent to jail for growing vegetables'.
This is why I'm motivated to make sure all my neighbors love me, even though I did check with the town hall and am in compliance on everything.
My own interpretation of "decorative plantings" is plants that are primarily grown and planted to be decorative. And while a vegetable garden can be a thing of beauty to the farmer, most vegetables are grown for food, not their appearance. So frankly, I think she pushed the envelope a bit on that interpretation.
You bite your tongue :) There's nothing prettier than a cherry tree in bloom, a bushy basil putting out flowers, sunflowers reaching for the sky, or kale and romaine spilling over a planter... although, I will grant you, a potato does leave a lot to be desired ;)
Really, this isn't about vegetables growing in a front yard. This is about how government works. A resident asked a question, got a somewhat vague answer, interpreted that answer in her own way and acted on it. Only then did the government realize the consequences of that vague answer, and it is now scrambling to do damage control. This could have been a decorative lawn sculpture or an unpermitted addition to the house or any of a number of things. People's sympathies are being aroused because vegetables seem so harmless.
I said something similar to a friend. He thought it was ludicrous that they'd have rules over someone planting vegetables. I told him his city likely had rules over what he could do with his lawn too and he'd be darn happy for those rules if his neighbor decided to make his house into an eyesore.
Laws are passed. Laws are challenged. Laws get amended to reflect our society and our community.
Curious about what was happening with this situation I returned to the woman's blog which Aspen shared a link to, Oak Park Hates Veggies.
So, fortunately it looks like charges have been dropped but unfortunately the whole situation seems to have taken an emotional toll on this woman. It all seems so sad that just doing a little something to provide food and comfort in one's life, something that wasn't hurting anyone else, could have become such a big, overblown deal.
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