View Full Version : Putting up or shutting up with the TSA
screamingflea
7-21-11, 3:29am
Last week an agency I volunteer with surprised me with an offer to send me to a professional conference in Orlando in October. This conference will teach me a lot to bring home to my mental health provider community, and of course offer me a wealth of contacts nationwide.
They offered to pay $400 for my registration; hotel and transit are up to me. My employer declined to kick in any extra. I feel very strongly about the whole backscatter/patdown issue, to the point that I looked up amtrak schedules. It costs the same financially as flying, but it's 4 days each way from Oregon. Add 4 days for the conference and I'd be out of town for about 2 whole weeks.
Transportation considerations reframe the whole event. If I take the train it breaks down like this:
$700 or so for the train, virtually the same as plane fare
$400 or so on a hotel
$700 on two weeks of lost wages
$ (no idea) on kenneling Fido for 2 weeks.
If I fly and get singled out, I'm virtually guaranteed to spend a night in jail. Sorry, just the way it is. And criminal charges are damned expensive on many levels, more so than losing work hours for being crammed into a hurtling shuttle on rails.
It's a pisser because I've been salivating over this particular conference for years. I know I'm missing a great opportunity and I hate it, but I'd feel cheap if I caved on my principles. Especially over something like my physical and psychological integrity. I think I'll just have to suggest they send me to something closer to home.
Maxamillion
7-21-11, 5:56am
Yeah, I agree about the TSA thing. I won't be flying as long as they have the scanners/groping. Any way you could take a greyhound? It would be cheaper, though I'm not sure about quicker.
I respect your beliefs. Sounds like they're about to cost you a lot of money - but that's life, eh?
Choosing to live the way I live costs me quite a lot too every year (organic food, alternative energy, no chemicals, volunteer work) but I wouldn't dream of changing what I believe in. It's just all part of the bottom line - my life, my choice.
If you take the train, bring some good things to eat and prepare for delays - Amtrak really hasn't improved on cross-country trips, and can be quite painful.
screamingflea
7-21-11, 12:55pm
Quite so. I've ridden Amtrak a lot over the years and I've never had any untoward experiences. I think for me it's a matter of self-respect. Am I going to cave in for the sake of convenience, or do I have integrity? And more importantly, am I going to deliberately walk into a situation where I know I'll be harmed? I'm better and smarter than that.
ApatheticNoMore
7-21-11, 1:27pm
Yea I'm not keen on flying domestically:
1) I never liked flying anyway, always made me nervous. This would not be a strong enough reason by itself, and I'd try to talk myself out of the irrationality of my fears if not for the other reasons.
2) the TSA!!!
3) the whole environmental impact of flying versus the train (hooray I'm contributing even more to the destruction of the planet >:( ).
Ugh, why bother, unless yea, you really want to get somewhere and your in a hurry I guess.
I read somewhere that the US travel industry is losing billions of dollars a year because foreigners don't want to put up with the hassle of the TSA and new visa requirements. Many of our friends and relatives in Germany don't come to visit us anymore because of the hassles. After our last trip to Germany in May I am also feeling it just is not worth the hassles to fly anymore.
screamingflea
7-22-11, 1:34pm
I love my Droid, but its size can be a disadvantage for conversations sometimes. It's a bit clunky for hand-holding, so I have a tendency to use the speaker function instead. Occasionally it warps the sound on the other end and can make me hard to understand.
This morning I called Orlando International Airport and asked them if they use the backscatter machines. The TSA feller kept saying "I'm sorry? I don't understand? Do we what?"
"Use the backscatter machines."
{pregnant pause} "The .. backstabber machines?"
At which point I burst out laughing and said "No, the ones that see through your clothes!"
Turns out they use them at both of Orlando's airports, so that's that. I politely informed him that I'll be spending my tourist dollars elsewhere.
My last hope was that one of the city's airports would be safe, making it worth the trip. I'll go back to the agency that offered to send me. If they offer to pay more to cover the difference in transportation types I'll reconsider, but I won't ask.
* sigh *
Published : Friday, 22 Jul 2011, 12:58 PM CDT
AUSTIN (KXAN) - A woman who refused a full body patdown from TSA agents at Austin Berstrom International Airport in December has been found guilty.
Claire Hirschkind was being screened in the security area of ABIA when a TSA agent asked her permission for a full-body patdown. According to her attorney, Sam Bassett, Hirschkind consented to the patdown but said she did not want screeners to touch her breasts or crotch area.
Bassett said the central argument in his clients case was determining If the order given by the TSA agent was lawful. A TSA agent who testified in Thursdays court hearing said Hirschkind did not agree and refused to any kind of patdown.
Airport police and the TSA agent testified Hirschkind was asked to leave the area and she refused. Bassett said his client did agree to a limited patdown. A judge found Hirschkind guilty for “knowingly failing to obey a lawful order from airport security.”
I admire your deep feelings on this topic. Your sticking to your beliefs. I am sorry you will miss your conference.
screamingflea
7-23-11, 1:12am
Zigzag, that's really chilling.
For me it's partly about my principles, but I've realized that at its core it's a matter of self-respect. I wouldn't endanger myself by kicking a rabid dog or eating week-old tuna salad out of a hot dumpster. There's just no point. It's taken my a long time to come around to the point where I can say that I'm worthwhile and valuable enough to care for myself, and I'm not going to sacrifice that.
They can have their conference in Oregon next year, and I shall bake them a giant cake in gratitude. cow-hi
If you feel this strongly you probably shouldn't put yourself in a position where you might feel threatened, but I feel I have to ask -- what makes you assume dealing with TSA is going to be a horrific experience? I travel by commercial airline a fair amount, including travel by myself and with my kids, and I have never been treated poorly during the many times I have gone through security. I actually find most of the TSA staff to be pretty friendly and accomodating considering how miserable their jobs must be.
Again, not trying to talk you out of your position, but wanted to share my experience.
lhamo
If you feel this strongly you probably shouldn't put yourself in a position where you might feel threatened, but I feel I have to ask -- what makes you assume dealing with TSA is going to be a horrific experience? I travel by commercial airline a fair amount, including travel by myself and with my kids, and I have never been treated poorly during the many times I have gone through security.
I was treated badly in Baltimore earlier this week. I went through one of the scanners for the first time and did not expect to have to give up my wallet. As a native of 1970s New York, I'm very hesitant to do that. In the future I'll know to carry only my driver's license and a single credit card in a wallet I can afford to lose.
Attitude does enter into it. Because of increasing phobias regarding crowds and confinement, I am finding air travel very difficult these days. As I must get on a plane several times a year for work, I plan to go for therapy regarding the issue. Ironically, I can ride a crowded subway with no problems, though I like to carry a small flashlight.
Have to say that Screamingflea is probably doing the right thing.
screamingflea
7-23-11, 2:56pm
Lhamo, there are a few different factors at work here. The first one being that I am a trauma survivor, which means that I am likely to have a disproportionate response* to someone beezing my squoobs without my direct invitation.
Independently of that, I have a very sarcastic and caustic way of voicing my displeasure.
I also have a few years of martial arts training, and damned if I'm going to expend all that time, money, and energy just so I can stand there and let some Mongo probe my knickers.
The TSA may or may not single me out, but if they do, the above is a recipe for trouble. I work in human services so a criminal record would devastate my career. There's just no reason to go out of my way to expose myself to that level of harm.
* Language which begs the question of what constitutes a "reasonable" response to forcing unwanted sexual contact upon a stranger. I think most parents, law enforcement professionals, and lawyers would say that resistance and self-defense are not only acceptable but strongly recommended.
Would it help if you chose to consider it something other than "sexual contact" as there's really nothing sexual about it.
Would you have the same response to a medical exam?
I used to love Amtrak for the option to walk up and buy a ticket at the same price as an earlier ticket...last min need to get to Washington... grab a train for $120 vs $1,200 same day flight. No longer, as last long trip my $196 ticket hit $660 when less than 7 days out so I switched options. as I had that freedom.
Not to alarm you as only happened once. but just recently boarding Amtrak in Penn Station a flying squad of full kit commandos descended upon gate near me for "spot" checks and I saw them checking ID and bags on platform... I am just old enough to remember east Europe travels and Franco's Spain during "troubles" that I get NO sense of security from the two guys in full body armor, oversized combat helmets with auto pistols at snap ready across their chests on station stair cases. I can only hope it gives others more comforting feelings.
Any chance the double decker express buses going your way? Even if half way (say NYC to Chicago) you may find Amtrak price drops by a lot on only one regional segment? I did take one recently from Miami to NYC for $35 then grabbed Amtrak to Chicago for 1/5 of Amtrak fare on MIA to CHI. May not do that again as while having wifi aboard was nice... too old and while I love winning at the game of frugal... I have my limits ongoing. If available Amtrak business is always worth the upgrade for me on long trips, cash or points traded in.
screamingflea
7-23-11, 9:35pm
If it were a medical exam imposed upon me against my will then absolutely yes.
And I'd disagree that there's nothing sexual about it. It's completely non-medical unless Blogger Bob gets really creative. It's done arbitrarily without probable cause. And it's an exploratory mission that involves genital contact regardless of the intentions.
Anyway, it's probably best that I back off this thread at this point because I'm getting my dander up. Not in reaction to anything anyone has said here, but just because I'm chewing it over so much. I really appreciate people's feedback and support, and I'm peaceful with my decision.
balulalow
7-23-11, 11:35pm
There was a story in the news recently that one type of scanner will be getting a software upgrade soon to make the images less detailed - just a generic outline of a person. Do you know if Orlando uses the millimeter wave type of machine?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/20/national/main20081053.shtml
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2010/11/tsa_backscatter.html
Bruce Schneier is basically a god among nerds, especially security nerds.
Then of course, there's gems like this: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2011-03-11-tsa-scans_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip&AID=4992781&PID=4003003&SID=1m857st4z35sh#
The Transportation Security Administration announced Friday that it would retest every full-body X-ray scanner that emits ionizing radiation — 247 machines at 38 airports — after maintenance records on some of the devices showed radiation levels 10 times higher than expected.
The TSA says that the records reflect math mistakes and that all the machines are safe. Indeed, even the highest readings listed on some of the records — the numbers that the TSA says were mistakes — appear to be many times less than what the agency says a person absorbs through one day of natural background radiation.
Granted, on the cancer front, I wouldn't worry too much if you're not a frequent flyer. However, on the privacy intrusion front, I totally get where you're coming from.
screamingflea
7-24-11, 3:29pm
I stand corrected (http://www.naturalnews.com/033112_TSA_pat-downs_breast_cancer_screening.html)! :laff:
(NaturalNews) What's better than receiving a free groping by the TSA? How about getting your breasts checked for cancer at the same time? That's the new offering from the TSA, which says that squeezing and twisting your breasts during security pat-downs is now a "medical procedure" and that it's all being done "to protect the health of Americans." Men, meanwhile, will now receive a free prostate exam as part of their screening procedure.
Before administering the new procedure, TSA agents will be required to attend a weekend seminar on manual breast cancer detection techniques. While some observers complained that a single weekend was not enough training to qualify TSA agents to conduct sensitive medical procedures on passengers, TSA head John Pistole responded by explaining, "That's true, but TSA agents aren't really trained on security, either, and we have them playing that role just fine, too."
I still prefer the "groping" to getting blown up in the air. I just don't understand what you want. In a perfect world, this kind of thing wouldn't be necessary........but as you know, its not. Really..........how should they be doing it?
I wonder how Europe and the Middle East deal with security patdowns? I suspect that they have far more experience in dealing with terrorist security than us - or maybe as Americans we are more likely to be a target?
I think we sometimes over react to some things before we think about the possible consequences - not that I really know because I haven't traveled much since I retired. But I was a frequent flier when I worked and after 9/11 it became pretty obvious that our security efforts were all over the map from security colors, to removing shoes, to my favorite - random screenings.
Peace
I Just flew out of a German airport to to Zurich. The European security was like US security checks 15 years ago. Metal detector check of of carry on bags. When we got to Zurich we had to go through US security. Shoes had to be removed I had to take off my belt and almost undress. I had bought a bottle of water after I went through security in Germany and didn't know I needed to get rid of it before US security. When they saw the water in plan sight on the outside of my back pack I had to have my carry on go through another search. Our flight was late leaving Germany and we had to run across the Zurich airport to get to our gate for the US flight we never left the secured area. I thought we would miss our US flight when we had to spend so much time at the US security check point.
screamingflea
7-24-11, 7:05pm
In a way that's effective (http://securitysolutions.com/news/security_exposing_hostile_intent/).
Think about it ... every security escalation they've done over the last ten years closed the barn door after someone made an attempt. The TSA has yet to stop a single terrorist at the gate. Who's done the real security work? Observant passengers once a would-be terrorist starts acting strangely at 30,000 feet. The TSA didn't even flag someone whose own family narc'ed him out.
Are the terrorists going to waste their time repeating a method that's already proven a failure? Of course not. So why does the TSA? Maybe they should hire an Al-Qaeda retiree as a consultant, since they can't seem to come up with any creative ideas of their own.
simplelife4me
7-24-11, 8:24pm
Sounds like you have your mind made up. Why keep talking about it?
Sounds like you have your mind made up. Why keep talking about it?
You sound like my wife!!..........Because I love you honey and I know you are interested in my opinion!!
Peace
I still prefer the "groping" to getting blown up in the air. I just don't understand what you want. In a perfect world, this kind of thing wouldn't be necessary........but as you know, its not. Really..........how should they be doing it?
I wasn't aware there were so many planes blowing up in the air before the TSA....
screamingflea
7-25-11, 1:07pm
Yup. I remember someone telling me years ago that the odds of dying in a plane crash were smaller than the odds of bleeding to death from a paper cut gotten by licking an envelope. The odds of a plane explosion under hostile circumstances are a tiny subset indeed.
No word on whether licking stamps was counted in the odds for death-by-letter ... as for me, I think I'll play it safe and stick with postcards. :laff:
simplelife4me
7-25-11, 10:34pm
lol...good response Mr. Screamingflea : )
My husband and I went to Israel for the first time and upon our return, the security at Ben-Gurion airport was the tightest and most thorough I had ever seen, and that was without any kind of pat-downs or removing of shoes. When we got there (you have to arrive 3 hours early, but need every minute of it to get through security), we first were individually interviewed by a soldier (I think) about who we were, where we had been in Israel, who our friends were, where we stayed, etc., etc. That was before we were allowed to put our suitcases through the first screening machine. Our carry-ons went through another machine, and we personally went through a metal detector thing. THEN we were allowed to approach the ticket counter with our suitcases and carry-ons.
Once we'd checked in, we were allowed to approach security PAST the check-in counters. Then it was a bag screen, bag search, passport/ticket check, personal metal detector, and so on. Still, no one had to remove their shoes and I didn't see any pat-downs...not that they didn't happen, of course, but I didn't see anyone who seemed to be randomly selected, like my wheel-chair-bound, 83 year old mother-in-law was, on her last flight in the U.S.
We felt VERY safe indeed!
Why doesn't our TSA do what places like Israel do? You'd think they'd follow how the most dangerous places do things with the best results.
Why doesn't our TSA do what places like Israel do? You'd think they'd follow how the most dangerous places do things with the best results.
I believe they use profiling, and we can't have that.
screamingflea
7-28-11, 1:28pm
I believe they use profiling, and we can't have that.
One of our core cultural values, which is great, but it's really a liability when it comes to airport security. There's a difference when it comes to profiling someone just because they're in what somebody arbitrarily considers a "wrong" neighborhood, and profiling someone who pays in cash for a one-way ticket with no baggage, and behaves very nervous and shifty-like.
I believe they use profiling, and we can't have that.
In recent days, many Americans have been arguing that TSA agents should be "profiling" potential terrorists and subjecting them to enhanced security measures instead of making all air travelers endure full body scanners and "enhanced pat downs".
Well, it turns out that TSA agents are already profiling air travelers. In fact, there are reports that some TSA agents have been specifically targeting attractive women for enhanced pat downs. Yes, you read that correctly. Unfortunately, this is not a joke. All across America women are reporting that these enhanced pat downs are much too "sexual" for their comfort. In fact, it seems as though U.S. airports are about the only place where it is perfectly legal to grope and feel up attractive women and they can't do a thing about it.
As Eliana Sutherland went through security at Orlando International Airport she noticed two male TSA agents staring at her breasts. They pulled her aside and selected her for "additional screening".
The following is how Sutherland described the incident (http://www.clickorlando.com/news/25902334/detail.html)....
"It was pretty obvious. One of the guys that was staring me up and down was the one who pulled me over."
A flight attendant named Megan (http://www.facebook.com/wontfly), who was quite familiar with airport security procedures, did not mince words when she recently described what she went through at the hands of the TSA recently....
The agent went up my right leg first and then met my vagina with full force….the same on the other leg with the same result. She then used both of her hands to feel my breasts and squeezing them. At this point I was in shock.
Female air traveler Ella Swift (http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=140233&catid=14) says that a TSA agent rammed her hand into her private area so hard that it actually lifted her up off the ground....
"The female officer ran her hand up the inside of my leg to my groin and she did it so hard and so rough she lifted me off my heels."
So is Homeland Security going to back down on these offensive new security procedures?
Not at all. They say that we are just going to have to get used to them.
In fact, Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano recently made a comment (http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-wants-behavior-scanners-at-sports-events-malls/) which is raising fears that we may soon see this kind of "enhanced security" at schools, malls and sporting events....
"I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?"
Peace
Just some of that hope and change. Who is in charge again?
Just some of that hope and change. Who is in charge again?
Keep hope alive!!! :) (Jesse Jackson)
I believe in a place called Hope!!! :) (Bill Clinton)
The Audacity of Hope!!! :) (Barak Obama)
Peace
I wasn't aware there were so many planes blowing up in the air before the TSA....
Personally i'm more concerned about getting attacked by a shark at the beach then I am about getting blown up on a plane. But the movie jaws came out when I was young enough to be traumatized by it... The reality is that any high profile event like a shark attack or a plane getting blown up gets so much media coverage that people tend to over freak out about it.
Who worries about dying in a car crash? No one. Everyone thinks "oh, that'll happen to someone else." But according to the NHTSA http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx there were almost 34,000 traffic fatalities in 2009 alone in the US. Over 10 times the number of people killed on 9/11. And in the 10 years since 9/11? It turns out that 2008 and 2009 were exceptionally low fatality years. Over 40,000 people died in every year before that, so nearly 100 times the number who died on 9/11 have died in plain old vanilla car crashes since that day. Any rational person who compared those odds would be getting dressed and strapping themselves into their car like a nascar driver every morning before they drove to work instead of worrying about terrorists crashing planes into buildings.
And like others have mentioned, the likelihood of terrorists trying to repeat what succeeded, or even more absurd, what has failed, is remote. Things like applying airport style invasive screenings to train passengers is probably a waste of time. After all, if a terrorist wants to get on a train with a bomb are they going to do it at Penn Station NY? No. They'll get on somewhere like metropark in central NJ. It would seem to me that the real risk for trains would be something more like a bomb going off under a bridge just as the train is about to pass over. Our "homeland security" apparatus is very much into a reactive and theatrical mode of operation. It's not making us more safe, it's just giving a weak illusion of safety.
Personally i'm more concerned about getting attacked by a shark at the beach then I am about getting blown up on a plane. But the movie jaws came out when I was young enough to be traumatized by it... The reality is that any high profile event like a shark attack or a plane getting blown up gets so much media coverage that people tend to over freak out about it.
Who worries about dying in a car crash? No one. Everyone thinks "oh, that'll happen to someone else." But according to the NHTSA http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx there were almost 34,000 traffic fatalities in 2009 alone in the US. Over 10 times the number of people killed on 9/11. And in the 10 years since 9/11? It turns out that 2008 and 2009 were exceptionally low fatality years. Over 40,000 people died in every year before that, so nearly 100 times the number who died on 9/11 have died in plain old vanilla car crashes since that day.
Airport security in the U.S. is far more about increasing the indignities that people will put up with in the name of social control than any attempt at ensuring public safety.
Airport security in the U.S. is far more about increasing the indignities that people will put up with in the name of social control than any attempt at ensuring public safety.
I think it's more along the lines of mitigating liability. If a 9-11 type incident happened again, who wants to be the one responsible for not going to extreme lengths to prevent it?
I think it's more along the lines of mitigating liability. If a 9-11 type incident happened again, who wants to be the one responsible for not going to extreme lengths to prevent it?
Liability is always a big issue in a country with more lawyers than engineers, but there seems to be to be a deliberate effort to demean--to coin my own phrase, sort of a "sheepifying".
Liability is always a big issue in a country with more lawyers than engineers, but there seems to be to be a deliberate effort to demean--to coin my own phrase, sort of a "sheepifying".
Perspective is everything.
Oftentimes there's more than one reason that some particular decision has been made. I think you're both right.
I'd really like to get to Europe before I expire, but I don't want to be groped or irradiated by strangers any more than Screaming Flea does, so I've thought about taking the train up to Canada and spending a few days at either end of my trip so I can fly out from there.
San Onofre Guy
8-2-11, 12:21pm
We all make choices in life. Having said that I have always had a pleasant experience with TSA and yes I have been patted down. I'm sorry that you were abused in the past and that places an impact on your travel.
I also have to question "Your employer wants to send you to a conference but you have to incur most of the cost?"
I agree with San Onofre we have never had a problem with TSA. So I would not put off a flight to Europe or anywhere because of them. TSA is not that bad just a pain.
Personally I resent the intrusive TSA screenings. Not so much because I especially care if they can see my junk in the x-ray image (I saw a cartoon a while back that I really loved and wouldn't mind imitating that showed an airport security line with a guy handing out viagara to the people waiting...). But instead just because I don't think that what they're doing is particularly useful in keeping me safe and I think that a lot of money has been wasted on the porno-scanners. But I put up with it because for the time being I still fly. My 82 year old dad lives 1000 miles away in Denver and SO's family are even further away in St Louis, so if we want to ever see them then getting on a plane is pretty much required. Neither of us has enough vaca time, nor would we want to spend it all on driving from CA to St Louis every year, so we fly. Plus we still enjoy traveling to other places (Well, not so much the traveling bit, but I do enjoy being other places and that requires traveling.), and flying is necesary for this unless we limit ourselves to places close to san francisco.
Germany at the US encouragement started using full body scanners and is very disappointed in them. They give off too many false warnings. I believe they have stopped using them. When we left Germany the first of June they only used metal dictators. These body scanners are costing millions of dollars and some has made a lot of money selling the US Government on them.
>>These body scanners are costing millions of dollars and some has made a lot of money selling the US Government on them. <<
Former Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff. Really. You can Google it.
When we left Germany the first of June they only used metal dictators.
They've got bronze statues of hitler at the airport security stations? :~)
They've got bronze statues of hitler at the airport security stations? :~)
What kind of a question is that. I find it very insulting.
iris lily
8-12-11, 12:51am
What kind of a question is that. I find it very insulting.
Its a joke for Christsake. A reference to metal "dictators."
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't see the typo error.
Actually, I thought your joke was quite clever and very funny!
Sorry jp1 I did not see my typo I agree with the joke now. I meant metal detector. Again sorry for being so sensitive.
When I was young and in the corporate world, I once sent out a memo for my boss announcing she was embarking on a nationwide pubic relations campaign.
The smallest typos can cause so much trouble.....
I love it! So how did the pubic relations campaign go for her??? Depending on what she looked like I suppose it might've been very popular! ;)
In my former life as a marketing manager proof reading stuff was a major part of my job. For better or for worse I now find typos everywhere, including published books. Gently (hopefully) mocking them is my favorite way of pointing them out.
screamingflea, i'm curious to know what you decided to do? i think you can get a sleeper car/room on the train, which might be worth the additional cost for the privacy. but that depends upon you. i always had friends mind my animals, but i never had a fido.
i have to say that when i used to travel in the US, I was quite clear about which airports I would avoid (LAX!!!!!) and which ones were actually quite nice. I always flew out of philly, and they were middling, imo, and annoying quite frequently. But, i've never been scanned, or pulled out for extra security -- just the usual -- metal detector, check of the ID/ticket, a few questions.
when I travel internationally, i'm always amazed at how much better managed nearly everything is. heck, even in africa -- where things are quite low rent -- the security measures were pleasant to move through. Yes, *everyone's* bag got checked -- you walked up to a folding table where you opened your back and a person rifled through it, and then you had to go to another folding table where you had just enough time to hastily repack it. but, everyone was quite pleasant about it.
but in the US, what a nightmare. LAX is terrible. You come off an overnight flight from NZ, completely strung out in exhaustion, and you go to passport control where the officer treats you very rudely, and then various airport helper folks go ahead and behave very rudely to you -- even when you ask an innocent question like "excuse me, can you tell me where the toilet is?" I mean, I've never gotten such a RUDE response in my life "It's not over here! This is just the exit to passport control where you put your bags! what are you, stupid?" and I said "no, but I do not know the layout of LAX, and I'm carrying an infant who likely will need to be changed. I would like to know where the toilet is, and it's not too unreasonable to assume that a person who works at said airport would be able to tell me, politely and efficiently. But i see that you have more important things to do, seeing as you are reading a gossip magazine with yoru coworkers." That didn't make her happy.
So, we avoid LAX and fly into and out of SFO, which is quite nice indeed, though we're thinking of flying into vancouver and then training ourselves across canada (because we've never done that), and then crossing over into the US by train or bus, and so on.
screamingflea
8-14-11, 1:44am
Thanks for asking Zoe! Things have gotten more complicated, and it's 90% my fault for being indecisive...
Basically, the agency overseeing Medicare/Medicaid in my county is the one that offered to subsidize me. I talked it over with my boss at the agency where I work, and then I called back the agency that made the offer and said no.
Then the other day my immediate boss came over all excited, with a document saying the offering agency was subsidizing people up to $2000! And that my employer could make up any difference if I still couldn't afford it. Since I had cast my initial refusal in financial terms, I felt backed into a corner, re-applied, and was accepted.
The con sounds wonderful, as I've said before, but on the train I'm spending twice the time in transit that I'd be there. So I'm really not interested on those terms. But the Universe is really conspiring to make this happen anyway. There is a waiting list, so it's not like I'd be letting anyone down if I refused, but ... would it make me look bad if I said no after refusing once and then re-applying?
And then of course there's the philosophical thing that maybe it's just Meant To Be for reasons yet to be revealed, and maybe I should just step out on faith. Either way, I really should give the final word on Monday.
Aaaagh, this is driving me :0!.
i am so thankful I missed my interview for TSA when they started. Instead I kept my promise to help at the Community Police Day activities and handed out hot dogs and candy.
Dharma Bum
8-15-11, 6:46pm
I'm here in the airport now thinking about this. I fly 2-4 days a week 40-50 weeks a year. I've never had any problem with TSA. It's a hassle, they can be jerks in some airports, and it's worthless theater, but not anything to miss a trip over. It strikes me you may be able to do a lot to help yourself get through this. Most people who have problems bring it on themselves. If you put everything in a checked bag and wear minimal clothing through the scanner with NO metal anywhere it should be a breeze. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/pat_downs.shtm Random screening usually just means someone looks closer at your carryon, but if you don't have one it's no problem. Even if you get wanded if you have no metal there is no need for closer scrutiny.
I recognize you have some sensitivities, but if you do it smart there is little chance of having a problem.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.