View Full Version : do men talk?
wow that is a gross generalization but I have to ask. I know that one really essential thing for me in a relationship is talking. Not necessary for hours or about your deepest feelings but regular talking. So if someone asks how an appointment was then maybe an answer that is more than 'nothing exciting'. Um yea, I figured if it was life changing you would have told me but a few sentences is pretty much what I expect.
Meanwhile my BF has drug his lawn mower over to do my yard, talked to me daily about me, and is generally very nice and considerate and open minded. argh
Are you saying that BF won't talk to you about himself? Or is this another man?
In my limited experience the only man I've been able to talk to about everything and for longish periods of time is my husband. Very important quality in a relationship as I'm easily entertained by talking and there's only so much to do, especially when you're tired or broke. But we both talk the most with each other. I don't know if other people find him particularly talkative - probably not. If we're talking relationships I couldn't have a long lasting one with a guy who didn't talk to me. That's also because I don't really care if I have girlfriends or not - husband has to be my best friend as well. But if we're talking about guys in general then I don't expect too much conversation. My brother was/is the best at evading conversation but his wife seems pretty happy so I bet he talks to her. She's the one who told us they were engaged.
I think smart women figure out HOW men talk. I don't think, generally, they talk like we women do.
loosechickens
8-2-11, 9:06pm
I don't know......most of the men I know well, including my sweetie, talk my ear off......I'd almost welcome one of those "oh, nothing much" kind of answers once in awhile..... ;-)
For some reason, all my life, men have just always talked to me, a LOT....men I worked with, men friends, friends' husbands, etc. I'm not sure why, but they sure do. Maybe I just have one of those faces that encourages men to confide their inner thoughts.......I don't know........ (I used to think that maybe I reminded them of their sisters, but in recent years, it's probably more like their mothers, hahahahahha)
Men don't talk about feelings and will avoid those conversations at all costs.
loosechickens
8-2-11, 9:39pm
Is that true for you, Alan? If so, why is it that way for you, do you think.........
I think men don't enter into conversations they are going to end up losing.
Is that true for you, Alan? If so, why is it that way for you, do you think.........
I was speaking generally, but in the real world that's the kind of question I'd avoid.
Good follow through:laff:
Mine talks plenty. Men are all different just like women.
ApatheticNoMore
8-2-11, 11:02pm
So if someone asks how an appointment was then maybe an answer that is more than 'nothing exciting'. Um yea, I figured if it was life changing you would have told me but a few sentences is pretty much what I expect.
I don't know, I think this is how your typical introvert (male or female) responds.
I as a dude will say some things here. First, if you aren't having sex with us as much as we want to open up we'll nod our heads and smile in a way that doesn't imply agreement or dissent.... it's a holding pattern, we just want to land on your airstrip. The movie "There's Something about Marry" in which the creepy stalker tells the MC that he needs to "rub one out" before the date because men can only bond like women want them to for the 15 minutes after orgasm. That's wisdom.
yeah, my man has been talking my ear off lately, while i've been in the "male holding pattern" described by matt. "shut up and lets have sex already" is what is going through my nodding head. lol
Yes my bf will not talk about himself. This does not mean deep deep things but really anything. It seems to be all part of a life long system of being closed off from others. So we are watching a movie and he gets some texts and doesn't say anything but I finally ask if that is his daughter. Just a little thing but it would be nice if he just said he was texting his daughter. Not a deal breaker or anything at this point.
This is probably TMI but the sex thing Mattj seems true. The only times I seem to get the kind of communication I really would like is then and it is still really short. Then when I try to follow up on something he said he may need support on it is back to silence.
Can I just ask how the not talking thing works in a serious relationship or when you are sharing a home? I mean I probably need to know when he walks out he is going to the store and maybe then we can save trips or something. And more seriously he was very concerned to tell me that his ex-ishwife was moving back to our city but he has avoided the question of if he has seen or talked to her. They have some legal things to handle so I figure they will have to talk.
I have an introverted and not very introspective husband, and he gives short answers to questions like "how was the interview?". However, ask him something about current economic or political events and he can talk well past my boredom threshold. So it depends. He also has limited patience with my going on and on about stuff HE doesn't care about.
Men don't talk about feelings and will avoid those conversations at all costs.
That’s been my experience with men, Alan. Father, brothers, husband and male friends, all talk extensively about things they know a lot about or are interested in but when asked ‘how do you feel……’ unless they are sick and have a physical feeling to report, the answer is ‘I don’t know’ or ‘what do you mean how do I feel?’. Love ’em anyhow.
um okay, so how do you know if they want you around (including fathers, brothers, etc) if they don't talk about things except for stuff? Do you just have to wait to catch a smile when you make their favorite potato salad or something?
First of all I think this is kind of a BS question. Men are human beings and have different personalities. Also, all people are more comfortable talking to some people than to others and in some situations more than in others. Generalizations about genders have been absolutely no help to me in specific relationships with real people where personality, culture, world view, upbringing, personal preference and a host of other factors are just as strong an influence as gender on a person's behaviour.
Maybe I'm like LC, just one of those people others open up to, but men talk to me, often about their feelings all the time. Not just my husband. My dad. My husband's friends. Teenage boys. Guys I worked with. I had an ex boyfriend that was so emotional it made me look cold and distant, and that is really saying something.
The one thing I would say is that they don't want to "talk about their feelings" when they feel they are being set up in a "let me tell you why everything you feel is wrong" kind of a trap, which I have been guilty of setting in the past and I have seen other women set also. Like kally said, they won't enter an argument they know they'll lose. That's true of a lot of people.
As far as, "hey I'm heading to the store" or "that was my daughter on the phone," most people I know of any gender talk about that kind of thing.
um okay, so how do you know if they want you around (including fathers, brothers, etc) if they don't talk about things except for stuff? Do you just have to wait to catch a smile when you make their favorite potato salad or something?
You could just ask.
I don't know, I think this is how your typical introvert (male or female) responds.
Introverts often answer simply and in a limited fashion. DH and I just tried to have a life-planning conversation that he triggered. I asked what he wanted over the next 1-3-5 years. "Whatever" was the response and "we will deal with what happens". When one is physically in decline, one needs to plan and change to meet the new reality, IMHO.
Finally, he said, "What do you want and we will do it". I stressed for a team effort and discussion about joint wishes. I watched his face and it occurred to me that it was simply was not that important to him.
I believe that some people can talk about anything and I have had men and women friends with whom we easily discussed feelings, politics, art, religion etc. Others like DH will occasionally mention their deepest concerns and once vented, that is it. You need to be alert to pick up on those moments though.
I do believe that men prefer to compartmentalize thoughts though. Perhaps your BF prefers to keep some things to himself and share others freely.
I chose a husband who isn't afraid to talk about his life, what he needs, what he appreciates, what's bothering him, etc. I personally think it takes guts to do that, and I respect him for it. Not that he talks my ear off, but he knows how to communicate, and not just when he wants something.
I would not make any other choice -- it just wouldn't make sense to me, and I have no patience with closed-up, inarticulate men who don't know how to operate on this level, and no respect for anyone who can only find it in themselves to talk when they want to have sex with me....I'm not into neanderthals.
There are plenty of men out there who aren't like that. Plenty. Find one. You may find that you're much, much happier. (p.s. many of them also know how to work a lawn mower :) )
I would not make any other choice -- it just wouldn't make sense to me, and I have no patience with closed-up, inarticulate men who don't know how to operate on this level, and no respect for anyone who can only find it in themselves to talk when they want to have sex with me....I'm not into neanderthals.
Totally agreed! That is beyond juvenille, cheap, manipulative, dehumanizing and it's a dangerous stereotype about men. I have a friend who truly believes men think that way and she is on the verge of divorce because her husband really does want to talk to her and have his feelings understood and taken into consideration. She thinks that makes him weak and effeminate and he should just shut up, not have an opinion on anything and sleep with her. He's not so much into that.
Men who truly do only talk when a woman is putting out enough for their tastes will soon find that their women will move on and find someone else.
How to talk to a man - Five secrets every woman should know (http://ezinearticles.com/?How-To-Talk-To-A-Man---Five-Secrets-Every-Woman-Should-Know&id=574868)
Do you know how to talk to your man? Is your boyfriend the silent type, not telling you what he thinks or feels? When you ask him questions and try to get him to open up, does he seem to go farther away? Is he confused about what you want from him?
Talking to men can be difficult if you don't understand how they are wired. Even if your guy is the talkative type, he still may not be good at sharing thoughts, feelings, or sentiments that are of any depth. Would you like to know the five secrets in how to talk to a man? Here are some facts that may surprise you and guide you:
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/574868
Dr. John Gottman is a researcher at the U. of Washington, in Seattle. Here is a link describing his work, and in particular, how communications and behavior can predict the outcome of a marriage/partnership.
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/gottman05/gottman05_index.html
Men as well as women can learn to communicate in productive ways, supportive of a strong relationship.
I never have trouble talking to men. For some reason many times I end up hearing their life stories :|( I do not flirt wth them. I've always said that I must be a "thereputic magnet". Boy, are they wrong.
But, I do know what you mean. I have also been around women that are very reticent.
forgive my spelling if necessary :)
sherry
goldensmom
8-3-11, 11:42am
um okay, so how do you know if they want you around (including fathers, brothers, etc) if they don't talk about things except for stuff? Do you just have to wait to catch a smile when you make their favorite potato salad or something?
There are a lot of non-verbal cues suggesting if someone wants you around or not and I am referring both men and women. Or as <stella> suggests, just ask.
**I wouldn’t use potato salad as a measure, just because they like the potato salad might mean they just like potato salad.
" I haven't spoken to my wife in eighteen months. I don't like to interrupt...."
Rodney Dangerfield
I think there is a huge difference between talking and listening to men in general, friends, relatives, even sons and doing the same with your partner. Your partner is the one who has more to lose if it turns into a quarrel. I find that the men I know like it when we do things together that doesn't require talking (or at least deep talking), like gardening, building things etc.
The more I do things with him that don't require any deep talking, the more willing he is when I really need to talk.
Is that true for you, Alan? If so, why is it that way for you, do you think......... I think this is a ploy to get Alan to talk about his "feelings" :-)!!
I have spent alot of my life almost exclusively with men locked in something with them 24/7 for months on end - co-ed bootcamp (4 women and 35 guys), military marine engineering school (only woman me and 40 guys), about 10 years at sea for months at a time (maybe 2 - 4 women and the rest guys), at a civilian compliance officer job (only woman around 25 guys), and lots of male friend I play sports with, and I'll say this: it really depends on the guy. Most of the guys I know don't talk about feelings - theirs or yours - and don't want to talk about feelings - theirs or yours. But seem to like to talk about general stuff like politics, things they are working on, plans for things they want to work on, hobbies, sports, activities in general, and their job and their lives if it doesn't involve talking about how they "feel" about their jobs or their lives - i.e. they will tell stories about things that happened - etc... There are talkative guys and non-talkative guys. I had a non-talkative DH and liked it that way (not a big talker or listener myself). So it just depends on the guy. Now if you want to ask me what guys talk about while they are together in large groups alone at sea for 9 month a year - well, I'll never tell ;-)!! It would shock the socks off many women. Many men are NOT the delicate creatures we women think they are :-)
um okay, so how do you know if they want you around (including fathers, brothers, etc) if they don't talk about things except for stuff? Do you just have to wait to catch a smile when you make their favorite potato salad or something?
Men are generally pretty direct. If they remain in the same room with you by choice, then that usually means that's where they want to be. Women spend WAY too much time trying to read something into men's silences when it's just nothing more than that - silence for silence sake not because he doesn't like you.
loosechickens
8-3-11, 3:22pm
In fact, most men I know would interpret that constant need to know if the woman was "wanted around" as neediness, and would probably clam up and flee........as would women faced with the same situation with the men in their life.
As Stella said, human beings are human beings. We come in various personalities, degrees of gregariousness, and there really isn't all that much difference between men and women, per se....although the stereotypes about each sex and their outlooks on life do have grains of truth in them.
I was never a good flirt.....I never really attracted the womanizing type man, more the men who were interested in serious relationships and marriage, which has been a source of thankfulness to me as I watch so many friends attract the other kind.
But men in general have always gravitated to me, and while I have several close woman friends, I have probably more men friends than women. Partly that's because of interests....in a group, I tend to gravitate toward the subects under discussion by men more than those of the women. Not all the time, but more often than not.
I didn't really think I'd "catch" you, Alan, but it was worth throwing out a hook, hahahahahha.......
Wise women listen and observe, way more than they ask questions, and given even a reasonably accepting atmosphere, most men, in my experience, are glad to unload their thoughts. But kind of following them around asking them about their feelings, and wondering if they love you, or want to be with you, is never going to be how that happens. If the guy isn't walking out the door carrying his belongings, I'd assume that he wants you around, and just work from that premise unless he shows or tells you differently.
Plus.....the less you worry about such things, the more desirable you are. Don't know why that is, but it's true. Not to worry. Just quit worrying and things will probably flow much more easily.
Alright, so I brought up the sex connection. I think, from my personal experience, it's a stage that some couples go through. I think it's closely related to the conversational "trap" someone else mentioned. I also think that women might not realize they are setting a trap or that men not intentionally withhold conversation for fear of it interfering with their sex life w/ their spouse. It's just a learning process, part of the power struggle that people go through. I know it took awhile for my wife and I to realize and understand our communication styles too. Shortly after I had to put down a wonderful, loving, but very sick pet my wife said to me in a therapy session, "You don't even seem to be sad about that!" I reminded her that after I got home from the vet I told her I was really having a hard time with it. I think I even cried a bit. I think she expected or wanted to see more drama but the fact that there wasn't any didn't mean it didn't affect me deeply, I just handled it my own way. We also came up with a couple of wonderful "helpers" for our conversations. First, she will ask if she can just vent about something and I know that I'm off the hook to try to solve any of the problems she brings up. Second, everyone has "buttons" or pet peeves... she started encapsulating the conversations about this by saying (or screaming) something like PEN RANT when she can't find a pen. I have learned to tell her as soon as possible if I'm upset about something instead of stewing about it. For me, it's often enough to just say, "I'm stressing about that interview and whether or not I'll get the job offer." It helps her because, if I seem a bit down, she doesn't have to wonder why.
I think there is a huge difference between talking and listening to men in general, friends, relatives, even sons and doing the same with your partner. Your partner is the one who has more to lose if it turns into a quarrel. I find that the men I know like it when we do things together that doesn't require talking (or at least deep talking), like gardening, building things etc.
The more I do things with him that don't require any deep talking, the more willing he is when I really need to talk.
This is really insightful, kally. I never put two & two together like that before, but that's how it works here too. I think my husband feels comfortable touching on not-typically-man stuff because I also do things like play sports with him, fantasy football, house projects, cars, and we just communicate well all around because I'm not constantly in his face saying "how do you feel???? how do you feel?????" :)
First, she will ask if she can just vent about something and I know that I'm off the hook to try to solve any of the problems she brings up. Second, everyone has "buttons" or pet peeves... she started encapsulating the conversations about this by saying (or screaming) something like PEN RANT when she can't find a pen. I have learned to tell her as soon as possible if I'm upset about something instead of stewing about it. For me, it's often enough to just say, "I'm stressing about that interview and whether or not I'll get the job offer." It helps her because, if I seem a bit down, she doesn't have to wonder why.
This is really cool too.
"Men are from Mars, women are from Venus" is the first thing that came to mind for me. I say BS! There is no absolute when it comes to either or. i.e. Men are like this, men only do that, men don't talk about such and such, women are like this, women only do that, women don't talk about such and such... So hokey! EVERYONE is different.
My husband is a chatter box, and that's great. I am too. It's all good. We talk about everything, but where our relationship excels beyond other typical relationships is in our mutual understanding of being honest and to the point with each other. i.e. No BS'ing around. You have something to say, then say it! I can't stand people who pu*syfoot around!
So, in answering the OP's question, "do men talk"? Sure they do, but as with all things, some don't. Just like women, some do, some don't. By the way, my husband holds no hurt inside. I'm his rebound board, always there for him, just as he's always there for me. Talking is therapeutic, healthy, and maintains balance. In my world it's essential.
LOL! Matt I am totally borrowing the PEN RANT thing! Only in my house it's going to be the DIRTY SHOES IN THE LIVING ROOM RANT! :) You explanation makes a lot of sense actually. I've seen that kind of thing play out in relationships too.
I think there is a huge difference between talking and listening to men in general, friends, relatives, even sons and doing the same with your partner. Your partner is the one who has more to lose if it turns into a quarrel.
To add to this, in my opinion if you are trying to get the man who is your partner to talk to you, NEVER, EVER, EVER show him an immediate strong negative response to something he says. Never act judgmental. Don't freak out. If he says something that he feels or that he did and it is the truth, don't punish him for speaking that truth. You may be upset or hurt, but continue the conversation in as neutral a manner as possible. If he gets shut down by you, he will be much less likely to tell you the truth in the future.
San Onofre Guy
8-3-11, 7:33pm
In my five decades on this planet having been married twice, divorced once, one night stands, multiple partner situations, dating wackos and down to earth women I think I have a bit of insight.
I have found that the less judgemental and accepting a woman is of what a man says or thinks, the more conversation ensues.
Men and women are different creatures. Once one recognizes that and respects what others think and how they respond, communication improves.
loosechickens
8-3-11, 7:49pm
HAH!!!! I love the "Pen Rant" one, too.....Mine is a "ARRGGHHHH....shoes right in the middle of the floor where they can be tripped over" rant.......Maybe now, I can just yell "SHOE RANT", instead of "you're just not going to be satisfied until you have me in a room at the nursing home with a broken hip, right down the hall from your mother......and you can kill two birds with one stone and visit us both!!!!!!!", which is what I usually yell........
I love it.
Okay, all good points. And YES!! I know this is totally a stereotype. He is just a really traditional kind of man which is fairly new to me. I like a lot of that about him but I don't have a lot of experience beyond my dad with traditional guys. So I just don't know if this is typical traditional guy stuff or what.
As far as my communication style I think I am really respectful. some of what he has told me about his previous marriages sounds rotten, I would never speak to anyone that way. I work a lot with people, kids, staff, families, variety of cultures and languages so I do this a lot. Pretty much you can talk to me about anything and the worst is an 'agree to disagree'. So this is about as safe as it is going to get. Now however we are past the year mark and there are a few things that he has agreed to do and I do need to occasionally check in on that, I am not going to give up my needs here totally, but I can do it with respect.
But I do have to say that when I ask a direct question about something that affects me and I do it without a bad attitude or an argument likely then I want to get to a few sentences of conversation. At least I am also pretty darn good at just being clear about telling my expectations so we will see what he thinks. He doesn't have to agree but helps me see where the future is.
Interesting and informative links, Alan and Redfox so thankyou for sharing them.
Pen Rant? I remember a Scissors Rant, running around this house trying to find a freekin' pair of scissors that worked. Only ONE freekin bloody pair did I need. Rant rant rant.
The next morning here's what greeted me: 12 pairs of scissors lined up on the counter. DH had patiently gone around the house and gathered each pair of scissors that we owned and laid them out, making a silent statement. He never said a word.
It made me laugh, it was so sly. To this day I've got a photos of those scissors on the counter, will keep it as a marriage memento.
Pen Rant? I remember a Scissors Rant, running around this house trying to find a freekin' pair of scissors that worked. Only ONE freekin bloody pair did I need. Rant rant rant.
The next morning here's what greeted me: 12 pairs of scissors lined up on the counter. DH had patiently gone around the house and gathered each pair of scissors that we owned and laid them out, making a silent statement. He never said a word.
It made me laugh, it was so sly. To this day I've got a photos of those scissors on the counter, will keep it as a marriage memento.
This is hilarious! I told my wife and she laughed out loud too!
loosechickens
8-3-11, 11:52pm
That's a great story, Iris Lily........and sounds like SUCH an effective comeback. Your sweetie surely seems like a keeper.......
Iris Lily. You know what I think? I think Mr. Lily helps keep Iris in line! :laff:
LOL. Iris that is hilarious!
Matt I told both my husband and my dad, who lives with us, about the pen rant thing. It has already averted a rant from each of us. You and your wife are geniuses.
Iris Lily. You know what I think? I think Mr. Lily helps keep Iris in line! :laff:
This is very true!
I as a dude will say some things here. First, if you aren't having sex with us as much as we want to open up we'll nod our heads and smile in a way that doesn't imply agreement or dissent.... it's a holding pattern, we just want to land on your airstrip. The movie "There's Something about Marry" in which the creepy stalker tells the MC that he needs to "rub one out" before the date because men can only bond like women want them to for the 15 minutes after orgasm. That's wisdom.
i guess this is why men have those long silences between themselves - no chance for sex. But then does that mean that when they DO talk to each other they are only having a conversation because they are hoping for sex? Better watch out for any man that wants to talk to you boys!
I totally disagree with Matt on this as in my experience (again stuck on a floating tin can with men 24/7 for months at a time) they don't talk much to each other either. At least no more than they talk to women. Andf this was back in the old days before computers and cell phone or even VCRs, so no one had contact with their families or had any kind of entertainment like TV or movies when we were underway so the crew interacting with one another was the only "talking" we had. Some guys talked more than others but in general there were huge blocks of times when no one said anything to each other at all. Just worked in companionable silence. It was great! There was also alot of good natured bantering and gofing around. Lots of practicle jokes and pranks. Some venting and ranting and trash talking others. But I can't remember one guy ever talking about his "feelings" or what he was "thinking" about right now. In my experience when you ask a guy "how are you feeling honey?" and he says "fine", that means he's fine. If you ask him "what are you thinking about honey?" and he says "nothing" - well that's probably true.
Mighty Frugal
8-4-11, 1:17pm
" I haven't spoken to my wife in eighteen months. I don't like to interrupt...."
Rodney Dangerfield
hahaha that's awesome!!!
"Some guys talked more than others but in general there were huge blocks of times when no one said anything to each other at all. Just worked in companionable silence. It was great! There was also alot of good natured bantering and gofing around. Lots of practicle jokes and pranks. Some venting and ranting and trash talking others. But I can't remember one guy ever talking about his "feelings" or what he was "thinking" about right now. "
That's exactly what my experience was in working in all-male or nearly all-male environments, and I have to say that I was more comfortable there than I was in most all-female groups. I especially liked that I could say exactly what I thought about politics or current events without having to tippy-toe around unspoken social rules. Very refreshing. I was less than enthusiastic about the flatulence contests, though...
I find that it helps to ask more specific questions. Not general ones. "How did the interview go?" will be met with "fine" as an answer.
ie... So what types of questions did they ask you at the interview? What departments did they have you interview with? What types of situations did they set up for you to problem solve? etc...
Ask a guy how they felt about a movie... you'll get a quick answer. As a guy if and how they related to the male lead in the movie, you'll get a more detailed answer.
JMO
If I asked my beloved how he related to the male lead in a movie, he'd look at me as though I'd grown an extra head. I think the last time I pondered deep meanings in a film was after watching Elvira Madigan...
This joke below is a little stereotypical but makes me laugh, every time. The dynamic I have with DH is a little different but it does involve me thinking and mulling something over FOR DAYS and then trying to talk to DH about it then getting frustrated Because He Just Doesn't Understand. I think the next time I do that, I will cue him to say "But where's the horse?"
The Differences Between Men and Women
Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves.
They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.
And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: "Roger, do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?"
And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: Geez, I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.
And Roger is thinking: Gosh. Six months.
And Elaine is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward ...I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?
And Roger is thinking: ...so that means it was ...let's see ...February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means ...lemme check the odometer ...Whoa! I am way overdue for an oil change here...
And Elaine is thinking: He's upset. I can see it on his face. Maybe I'm reading this completely wrong. Maybe he wants more from our relationship, more intimacy, more commitment; maybe he has sensed -- even before I sensed it -- that I was feeling some reservations. Yes, I bet that's it. That's why he's so reluctant to say anything about his own feelings. He's afraid of being rejected.
And Roger is thinking: And I'm gonna have them look at the transmission again. I don't care what those morons say, it's still not shifting right. And they better not try to blame it on the cold weather this time. What cold weather? It's 87 degrees out, and this thing is shifting like a goddamn garbage truck, and I paid those incompetent thieves $600.
And Elaine is thinking: He's angry. And I don't blame him. I'd be angry, too. God, I feel so guilty, putting him through this, but I can't help the way I feel. I'm just not sure.
And Roger is thinking: They'll probably say it's only a 90-day warranty. That's exactly what they're gonna say, the scumballs.
And Elaine is thinking: Maybe I'm just too idealistic, waiting for a knight to come riding up on his white horse, when I'm sitting right next to a perfectly good person, a person I enjoy being with, a person I truly do care about, a person who seems to truly care about me. A person who is in pain because of my self-centered, schoolgirl romantic fantasy.
And Roger is thinking: Warranty? They want a warranty I'll give them a damn warranty. I'll take their warranty and stick it right up their ....
"Roger," Elaine says aloud.
"What?" asks Roger, startled.
"Please don't torture yourself like this," she says, her eyes beginning to brim with tears. "Maybe I should never have ...Oh God, I feel so....." (She breaks down, sobbing.)
"What?" says Roger, totally perplexed.
"I'm such a fool," Elaine sobs. "I mean, I know there's no knight. I really know that. It's silly. There's no knight, and there's no horse."
"There's no horse?" says Roger.
"You think I'm a fool, don't you?" Elaine says.
"No!" says Roger, glad to finally know the correct answer.
"It's just that ...It's that I ...I need some time," Elaine says.
(There is a 15-second pause while Roger, thinking as fast as he can, tries to come up with a safe response. Finally he comes up with one that he thinks might work.) "Yes," he says.
(Elaine, deeply moved, touches his hand.) "Oh, Roger, do you really feel that way?" she says.
"What way?" says Roger.
"That way about time," says Elaine.
"Oh," says Roger. Still hoping he's on the right track he responds, "Yes."
(Elaine turns to face him and gazes deeply into his eyes, causing him to become very nervous about what she might say next, especially if it involves a horse. At last she speaks.)
"Thank you, Roger," Elaine says.
"Thank you," says Roger.
Then he takes her home, and she lies on her bed, a conflicted, tortured soul, and weeps until dawn, whereas when Roger gets back to his place, he opens a bag of Doritos, turns on the TV, and immediately becomes deeply involved in a rerun of a tennis match between two Czechoslovakians he never heard of. A tiny voice in the far recesses of his mind tells him that something major was going on back there in the car, but he is pretty sure there is no way he would ever understand what, and so he figures it's better if he doesn't think about it. (This is also Roger's policy regarding world hunger.)
The next day Elaine will call her closest friend, or perhaps two of them, and they will talk about this situation for six straight hours. In painstaking detail, they will analyze everything she said and everything he said, going over it time and time again, exploring every word, expression, and gesture for nuances of meaning, considering every possible ramification. They will continue to discuss this subject, off and on, for weeks, maybe months, never reaching any definite conclusions, but never getting bored with it, either.
Meanwhile, Roger, while playing racquetball one day with a mutual friend of his and Elaine's, will pause just before serving, frown, and ask: "Norm, did Elaine ever own a horse?"
loosechickens
8-4-11, 8:53pm
of course, right in the middle of my first reverie, MY sweetie would say "Six months? Six months? I had the oil changed the day we went out on that first date, so boy is it overdue".......and I'd say...."I can't believe you'd be so enthralled with me that you'd even forget to change the oil", and then I'd give him a big hug, and he'd think, "hah.........she loves me......".
At least I THINK that's how it happened.........
There's a great Gary Larson cartoon that's two frames, each of a person lying in bed. The guy is wondering things like, "Does she love me? Does she even know I exist? Does she know my name...?" The girl is on the other frame, thinking, "You know, I think I really like vanilla."
I think the genders are reversed, imho, but I've never forgotten that dumb cartoon whenever I'm complexing over what someone else does or doesn't feel. Are they on the other side of town thinking, "I really like vanilla..." ? (Or, "gotta get that truck in for an oil change..."). I'm envious sometimes.
I had a prof in college that did a fun social demonstration. He had six students come up to the front of the class and sit down in groups of two. Two guys, a guy and woman and two women. He just told them to make themselves comfortable and small talk for 2 minutes.
The two guys kept facing the front, staring at their shoes... relaxed back in their chairs, talking. The guy/girl group had the guy facing ahead and sitting back and the girl rotated her chair and was leaning in talking to the guy. The two girls turned their chairs to face each other and were leaned in talking fast and furious.
Not sure if there's anything to glean from that, but it was interesting.
First, thanks Anne, that was great. Now it's time for a look-see at the husband store...
A brand new store has just opened in New York City that sells Husbands.
When women go to choose a husband, they have to follow the instructions at the entrance:
You may visit this store ONLY ONCE! There are 6 floors and the value of
the products increase as you ascend the flights. You may choose any item
from a particular floor, or may choose to go up to the next floor, but you
CANNOT go back down except to exit the building.
So, a woman goes to the Husband Store to find a husband.
The 1st floor sign on the door reads:
Floor 1: These men have jobs.
The 2nd floor sign reads:
Floor 2: These men have Jobs and Love Kids.
The 3rd floor sign reads:
Floor 3: These men have Jobs, Love Kids and are extremely good looking.
"Wow," she thinks, but feels compelled to keep going.
She goes to the 4th floor and the sign reads:
Floor 4: These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Good Looking and help with Housework.
"Oh, mercy me!" she exclaims, "I can hardly stand it!"
Still, she goes to the 5th floor and sign reads:
Floor 5: These men Have Jobs, Love Kids, are Drop-dead Gorgeous, help with Housework and Have a Strong Romantic Streak.
She is so tempted to stay, but she goes to the 6th floor and the sign reads:
Floor 6: You are visitor 31,456,012 to this floor.
There are no men on this floor.
This floor exists solely as proof that women are impossible to please.
Thank you for shopping at the Husband Store.
To avoid gender bias charges, the store's owner opens a New Wives store just across the street.
The 1st first floor has wives that love sex.
The 2nd floor has wives that love sex and have money.
The 3rd,4th, 5th and 6th floors have never been visited.
My DH is very extroverted, but in a limited way, if that makes any sense. In a way he's kind of a glad-hander. He makes lots of small talk, but never gets very deep. (BTW, this is with OTHERS--he's much better with me). He never asks enough (to me) questions.
For example, once his buddy called and said a few days earlier he was attacked outside a bar and he was stabbed and hospitalized. OMG, I said---did they catch the guy that stabbed him? Where did they stab him? Where was (his wife)?
The answer to all of those questions--- "I dunno, I didn't ask him."
Men are generally pretty direct. If they remain in the same room with you by choice, then that usually means that's where they want to be. Women spend WAY too much time trying to read something into men's silences when it's just nothing more than that - silence for silence sake not because he doesn't like you.
Maybe that's why I can talk with many men pretty well - I'm rather direct myself!;)
Agreed on men and the talking about feelings things. But sports, current events, anything else they're interested in, yes, definitely they'll talk! I can talk baseball and hockey so that gets convo flowing. :D In my theological education courses the past two years, I've been the only woman in a bunch of guys. One of my classmates called us "The Chick and the Knuckle-draggers" (I call myself a chick, so no issue with that - plus being PC is not part of my personality!), which I thought was hysterical.
If I want my dh to talk so that I can fall asleep to his sweet voice I ask him to tell me about "his dream motorcycle" That will keep him going for hours because he loves to think about and talk about it.
If I say "we need to talk" he says oh oh..... how long is this going to take?
I love it Matt!
I think that the joke typifies a certain type of woman - the kind that would end up on Bridezillas for example, or maybe on a Real Housewives show. (Disclaimer, I've never seen a full episode of the former and only one episode of the latter, so I'm just guessing). There are plenty of women, especially women who have had bad relationships, that would have gotten off at the 2nd floor.
And there are probably plenty of men who would wait for the "Not a psycho nut" floor.
rodeosweetheart
8-5-11, 9:06am
Wow, does anyone else find these gender bashing stereotypes really sad? I think the only "truth" they reveal is how much sexism remains.
Wow, does anyone else find these gender bashing stereotypes really sad? I think the only "truth" they reveal is how much sexism remains.
I guess I don't see it as gender bashing but laughing at stereotypes. YMMV.
Anne Lee......that joke is hysterical!
Once again, we modern humans are trying to be so different than our primitive ancestors and it causes all sorts of problems.
Men are wired to go out and hunt and women are wired to keep the cave in order, raise the children, plan all sorts of things out, communicate with all the other women, sleep lightly at night to keep watch, while the men are totally unconscious from their day's hunt.
I know this isn't politically correct, but I really feel that today's men and women are still pretty much built to have these qualities. Men are hunters and women are communicators.
I'm not even sure we're "supposed" to be monogamous. All these situations that arise between men and women might be a result of all the social situations we're supposed to be in with each other, even if they are unnatural.
I'll have to see if I can find something that is on the wall at my OB/GYNs office. It has the male brain drawn out and what he thinks of. It is soooooooooooo funny.
I don't see it as bashing. I see it as telling it like it is. Hey.........Viva Le Difference!
rodeosweetheart
8-5-11, 9:56am
I hear what you are saying about laughing at stereotypes, but if you substituted something else there for "man" or "woman" that has been stereotyped heavily in the past-- Jewish, Black, American Indian, Irish, Polish, Catholic, disabled, elderly--you name it, don't you find it offensive? I sure do, but YMMV. Stereotypes aren't truth, and so long as people still suffer from the effects of sterotyping--like still making 78 cents on the dollar, if you are a woman and not a man--I don't find them very funny. I find them disturbing, offensive, and sad.
I guess you all think these are funny because they are true. I think they are not true, and not funny.
I think the jokes were funny, but I don't mean to turn this into a referendum on the jokes. Still, I do understand that to some, they are not.
About gender stuff: in this house my husband is the cryer (well, before I wen menopause, anyway.) I'm not weepy but he is. So does his father. I think it's genetic. They get all misty eyed about stupid things like family reunions in the movies and weddings. He tends to mist up at happy events rather than sad ones.
Stereotypes can be a sort of shorthand, but anyone with a little experience in life quickly observes that individual personalities often render them useless, so it's foolish to depend on them. That they've been used for centuries to keep groups of people oppressed and "in their place" makes them even more dangerous.
If I lived in an era or culture wherein I had to play the role assigned to me, I'd be absolutely miserable. Another reason I'm happy to be living in the here and now.
On our primitive roles vs. modern/cultural expectations.... In many cases I prefer the later but here it takes biology many generations for a species to "shed" less adaptive traits and for more adaptive traits to emerge. On stereoptypes... I think there is a difference between that and things like bias, bigotry, sexism, xenophobia.... often stereotyping or profiling can fuel those kind of fires... but sometimes they are just used as jokes to help release tensions that already exists. On sexism and the "gender wars," I read an eye opening, but depressing and imperfect book, called The Myth of Male Power. <-- the title, imo, is more provactive than the book actually is.
Agreed on men and the talking about feelings things. But sports, current events, anything else they're interested in, yes, definitely they'll talk!
Yep, and for alot of women that conversation can be just as boring as the one about "feelings" is to many men. Do some women really want to know what he's thinking when they ask? Beware the reply: "Oh I was thinking about the time bubba and I spent all day down at the junkyard and how we found a supercharger froma 1967 Barracude and how we took it home and attached it to the lawn mower and how wouldn't it be great if you and I could go down there and do that again. We could find some old pistons and crankshafts and rocker arms and if we cross wired the blah, blah, blah to the yadda yadda yadda and we'd....." Soon it's the woman who's eyes are rolling back in her head and she's politely nodding in all the right places, while all along thinking "How the heck do I get out of this? Oh I know - sex!" Where as she lunges at him in midsentence for a romantic romp just to shut him up! Guys, be forwarned, this does NOT work in reverse. Try it on your SO and you may die in a horrible, horrible way :0!:laff::devil:!!
As for stereotyping - yeah we are doing it but in a fun and good natured way for the most part. I think what we see here is that most people seem to think that each person is an individual and will act in accord to their own way and not some preconcieve gender bias.
Well, this might tick some people off, but I like the saying "there are stereotypes for a reason". But in this culture, there is something terribly wrong with trying to simplify one's psyche and maximizing one's survival by placing people into groups that we come in contact with. Once again, I believe this is a natural thing, which helps us survive. But in today's world, we've made it some awful thing to do.
http://i.imgur.com/q4F3k.jpg
Well, this might tick some people off, but I like the saying "there are stereotypes for a reason". But in this culture, there is something terribly wrong with trying to simplify one's psyche and maximizing one's survival by placing people into groups that we come in contact with. Once again, I believe this is a natural thing, which helps us survive. But in today's world, we've made it some awful thing to do.
Yes but the problem with stereotypes is that, while some people may fit into them, many people don't. Assuming we are all a very narrowly prescribed way based SOLELY on being born with a certain type of DNA, is just plain wrong IMHO. It reduces and diminishes a persons individualism, ideals, desires, and their very humanity to nothing more than some arbitary standard of behavior that ONLY encompasses one belief - men are this way, women are this way - period. Wrong!!
What I'm saying is that I believe that "stereotypes" are are natural way of categorizing the world, in order to make it safer for us, without us having to take risks all the time with everyone we meet. I think its an internal safety mechanism that differentiates between "us" and "other". Maybe in today's world (at least in some places) its so safe and secure, that we don't have to rely on that internal mechanism that categorizes for us, and we can afford to make that new assessment every time we meet someone new. But I really think its a very natural reaction to the world. It doesn't mean I'm going to condemn everyone of some type, once one of that type robs me or kills someone.......but I think that info goes automatically into our brain files. We'd be pretty naive to not learn from some of these things. And its not all or nothing. Its a very long continuum of "stereotyping."
Maybe some of us have had very different experiences. I'm used to women talking alot and men not as much. I'm used to women being pretty in touch with their feelings and men not.
Isn't demanding that your view is absolutely right sort of doing the same thing??
After reading all of this I realized that I am a very lucky person. My husband and I talk all the time and he always has plenty to say. :) we have been together for 30 years.
I think some has to do with the upbringing. If a boy is taught to "stuff it" and "big boys don't cry", etc., they start to not be in touch with their feelings, and lots of times they display some behavior that isn't any where near what they're really feeling inside. I suppose some men "stuff" words for lots of different reasons.
There's just all sorts of people with all sorts of personalities that come with different genes and different upbringings.
But.............men really ARE from Mars. hahaha Just kidding.
My man talks....when it is in his best interest to that is. :D
http://i.imgur.com/q4F3k.jpg
Love it!! So true, so true.... :)
"Yes but the problem with stereotypes is that, while some people may fit into them, many people don't. Assuming we are all a very narrowly prescribed way based SOLELY on being born with a certain type of DNA, is just plain wrong IMHO. It reduces and diminishes a persons individualism, ideals, desires, and their very humanity to nothing more than some arbitary standard of behavior that ONLY encompasses one belief - men are this way, women are this way - period. Wrong!!"
So well said, Spartana.
Looking at me, one might think I'm a wife (likely financially dependent), a grandmother, probably prone to long, gossipy conversations, a classic nurturer who's short on logic skills but long on emotion. I've been taken for a member of the local garden club (by someone who's never seen my yard, certainly) and a scrapbooker (because that's what mothers and grandmothers do...) A smarmy salesman once told me as I browsed with my partner that some women have husbands who let them buy the very most expensive sewing machine they carried. I'm rarely confrontational, but my beloved and I still laugh about my terse response.
Being pigeon-holed in a box that doesn't fit me in any way at all is only an annoyance to me, but to others being stereotyped, it can be a matter of having a decent life or no life at all. Just ask Amadou Diallo.
My frustration with the men close to me isn't that they don't talk.......its that I can't understand them. They say things in ways that keep me going in circles. I have to ask over and over and over what they are trying to say. It can be pretty frustrating.
My partner and I are different in practically every way possible; I often say all we have in common is a love of cats and spicy food*. The wonder of our communication is that anything at all gets through--and not because of any stereotypical male-female breakdown, as he plays the emotive, cuddly one to my Spock. If an issue is important to me, I just keep presenting it in different ways until it registers. Sometimes it never does. Oh well.
*ETA: ...and each other.
Sometimes my husband will be agreeing with me, but it sounds like he's disagreeing. I just have to keep sorting out stuff to get to the "real" answer. haha
Love it!! So true, so true.... :)
Some of us women don't want princes to sweep us off our feet and slay the dragon while we cower in the castle wringing our hands and wailing. We want a partner who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us, both swords at the ready, to defeat and protect our kingdom/queendom as well one another - together.
rodeosweetheart
8-6-11, 2:24pm
"Being pigeon-holed in a box that doesn't fit me in any way at all is only an annoyance to me, but to others being stereotyped, it can be a matter of having a decent life or no life at all."
"Some of us women don't want princes to sweep us off our feet and slay the dragon while we cower in the castle wringing our hands and wailing. We want a partner who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us, both swords at the ready, to defeat and protect our kingdom/queendom as well one another - together."
Thank you both for saying these things, far more eloquently than I could!
What I'm saying is that I believe that "stereotypes" are are natural way of categorizing the world, in order to make it safer for us, without us having to take risks all the time with everyone we meet. I think its an internal safety mechanism that differentiates between "us" and "other". Maybe in today's world (at least in some places) its so safe and secure, that we don't have to rely on that internal mechanism that categorizes for us, and we can afford to make that new assessment every time we meet someone new. But I really think its a very natural reaction to the world. It doesn't mean I'm going to condemn everyone of some type, once one of that type robs me or kills someone.......but I think that info goes automatically into our brain files. We'd be pretty naive to not learn from some of these things. And its not all or nothing. Its a very long continuum of "stereotyping."
Maybe some of us have had very different experiences. I'm used to women talking alot and men not as much. I'm used to women being pretty in touch with their feelings and men not.
Isn't demanding that your view is absolutely right sort of doing the same thing??
Well I wasn't "demanding" that my view is absolute - I was just stating my belief. That I believe some people fall into stereotypes and some people don't. And I do agree that there are many biological/genectic realities that would put a person into a certain lifestyle which enforced those stereotypes. For example men are generally stronger and faster then women, so, back in olden times, they are going to be better equipted to hunt a wooly mammoth compared to women, who generally spend a large part of their adult lives being pregnent and raising children. Therefore women spent their lives inj groups of other women doing cave-dwelling things: basket making, food prep., etc.. in a quiet surrounding where it would be natural to have conversations with each other. Where as men are out running down the mammoth and don't have the quiet time or surroundings to just sit and talk. Those kinds of activities, based on biological & genetic realities, DO enforce stereotypes. And many of those same stereotypes can be seen today between the genders. Often times based on the type of work and environment each does.
But what I disagree with you about is that "communication is hardwired" to be more of a woman's forte than a mans. I believe that it takes just as much communication skill, maybe more, to decide how to hunt that wooly mammoth (and boast about it for hours afterwards :-)!) as it does to decide what herbs to use to make the mammoth broth taste good. I just think the "topic" is different, not the "nature" of the conversation. Both are planning things, working out problems, and making decsions. Only the topic and setting is different. My personal belief is that this is the same difference between men and women today. We each want to talk about the things that interest us and about the things we do each day. Often times those things are vastly different and would bore the other to tears (Grog isn't interested in talking to Grogette about sewing bones used to sew hides to decorate the cave anymore than she is interested in hearing about how he made his spear tips sharper or cut the head off the mammoth). Often times they are the same and each person has a nice converstation (Grog and Grogette both like to play rocks and twigs with the little neantrathals). Just depends on the person and their individualism. So again, I feel that there really isn't a gender difference, just a difference between individual people of all genders. Not saying my view is absolute, just that it's my view.
My partner and I are different in practically every way possible; I often say all we have in common is a love of cats and spicy food*. The wonder of our communication is that anything at all gets through--and not because of any stereotypical male-female breakdown, as he plays the emotive, cuddly one to my Spock. If an issue is important to me, I just keep presenting it in different ways until it registers. Sometimes it never does. Oh well.
*ETA: ...and each other.
My ex-dh and I were very similair. Had the exact same jobs (both shipboard engineers in the Coast Guard), same hobbies and interests - which we spent alot of time doing together. So while neither of us were big talkers, we could talk for hours if we wantedtoo and both enjoy the conversations. But that was because we were both interested in the same things (my dream date would be a bike ride to the concrete pipe factory or a shipyard followed by pizza and beer ;-)!). But if I didn't have the same interests as him, then we probably wouldn't talk much to each other. And if he insisted on talking about things I wasn't interested in I would have probably hung myself from the curtain rods rather than listen to him talk about going on a bike ride down to see the concrete pipe factory :-)!
Loose Chickens, I just rode my bike past your place in Glen Eden down to the concrete pipe factory on Temescal Canyon RD. just south of Tom's Farm the other day. No hunky guy to share it with though sadly but I enjoyed it none the less ;-)!
This joke below is a little stereotypical but makes me laugh, every time. The dynamic I have with DH is a little different but it does involve me thinking and mulling something over FOR DAYS and then trying to talk to DH about it then getting frustrated Because He Just Doesn't Understand. I think the next time I do that, I will cue him to say "But where's the horse?"
The Differences Between Men and Women
OMG! I finally read this - sooooo funny! I'm sitting in ther public library totally cracking up.
Some of us women don't want princes to sweep us off our feet and slay the dragon while we cower in the castle wringing our hands and wailing. We want a partner who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us, both swords at the ready, to defeat and protect our kingdom/queendom as well one another - together.
that is exactly it for me. Doing that together really takes some talking about just basic stuff and a bit of feelings as you go through it all. So I am just sad, the communication has taken a nose dive lately and I can't fix it by myself. I waited a long time to date because I wanted someone I could feel good about having around my kids and who wouldn't put me in a bind when my kids were needing something, but the lack of communication is something that he is either avoiding darn well or doesn't understand. We can get through conversations about our beliefs in a respectful way and there is a giant gap but if I ask a direct question I am getting mroe and more avoiding.
that is exactly it for me. Doing that together really takes some talking about just basic stuff and a bit of feelings as you go through it all. So I am just sad, the communication has taken a nose dive lately and I can't fix it by myself. I waited a long time to date because I wanted someone I could feel good about having around my kids and who wouldn't put me in a bind when my kids were needing something, but the lack of communication is something that he is either avoiding darn well or doesn't understand. We can get through conversations about our beliefs in a respectful way and there is a giant gap but if I ask a direct question I am getting mroe and more avoiding.
I hear you but sometimes you just have to forget the talking and just pick up the sword and stand next to him. Just "being" with the person, doing things with them and having a shared experience can go along way to bring the relationship closer together even if no one ever says a word. If he's out mowing the lawn, quietly pull some weeds near him. If he's reading, just grab a book and snuggle up next to him. Just be together . No elaborate or detailed conversation is needed to have a wonderful bonding experience. Give it a try! What have you got to lose?
Spartana I so agree. I have heard this called shoulder to shoulder time. Face to face (and conversation) is something entirely different.
I agree with Spartana and kally, but only to a certain extent For some people the verbal communication is an extremely important part of the relationship. To others, just being or doing something together is the best form of communication. There is no right or wrong...but, you will be the happiest and most content when you find someone who style of communication matches your own! If you have to "tamp down" your natural inclination to "talk it out and talk it over" you will become a very frustrated partner. Denying who we really are in order to appeal more to our partner, never leads to a healthy relationship! Be who you really are Zoe!
Perhaps you're expecting more of him than he's able to give right now in other ways besides communication. That's the drift I'm getting from your cryptic posts, but I could have missed the point entirely.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Some of us women don't want princes to sweep us off our feet and slay the dragon while we cower in the castle wringing our hands and wailing. We want a partner who will stand shoulder to shoulder with us, both swords at the ready, to defeat and protect our kingdom/queendom as well one another - together.
That would be me too. My DH of 36 years and I have always been a team. We fight the dragons together and there have been many over the years. I do have to say though that he is my Prince Charming in every way. ;)
I thought the cartoon was amusing yet sad, because it is so true. Both men and women often buy into those unrealistic fantasies depicted and the seed is planted early in life by the media, fairytales, Disney, etc.
rodeosweetheart
8-8-11, 7:47am
It was interesting, when my grandmother was alive, to hear her talk about love and marriage. She was born in 1889, pre TV and movie era. She said she did not love my grandfather when she married him, but grew to love him very much. It was not a romantic era, from her description. They were partners in every sense, running a small grocery store. He was a quiet man (who knows why--gender, era--lots of men weren't quiet at that time) but her expectations of love and marriage were completely different than both my mother's and from mine, and I do think it has something to do with the era in which you were born.
She never remarried and was widowed at 53, then went back to work as a teacher, after supporting herself as a house mother at a girl's college and getting her masters. She also moved to Florida at 60 and taught for 15 more years so she could get a Florida pension, which was better than a Georgia pension.
That's the kind of women models I grew up with up with, and most of the women I knew grew up with. But we were pre TV in many way (ie we had one, but there were three fuzzy channels and little reception anyway!) None of those "women reality shows" that earlier posts have mentioned, my parents thought Disney was stupid and bourgeois, so we didn't do much of that, and porn not a big factor.
But my daughters in law both incredibly hard workers and planners, definitely the life partner type and very entrepeneurial, both do most of the money thinking in their households. Not sure that any of the stereotyes apply much to them, either.
Ooops, sorry to have gotten so far afield from Zoe's initial topic.
I agree with Spartana and kally, but only to a certain extent For some people the verbal communication is an extremely important part of the relationship. To others, just being or doing something together is the best form of communication. There is no right or wrong...but, you will be the happiest and most content when you find someone who style of communication matches your own! If you have to "tamp down" your natural inclination to "talk it out and talk it over" you will become a very frustrated partner. Denying who we really are in order to appeal more to our partner, never leads to a healthy relationship! Be who you really are Zoe!
I totally agree with this. I think a person needs to be able to fully express themselves in a relationship. Zoe Girl needs to have her needs met for convesation or discussion and if BF isn't able to meet them - and she isn't happy with having to suppress her own needs - well.. then maybe he isn't the one for her. Like Jane pointed out, some of Zoe's posts were "cryptic" so really didn't understand the problem, but hopefully someone else here understands better than I do.
That would be me too. My DH of 36 years and I have always been a team. We fight the dragons together and there have been many over the years. I do have to say though that he is my Prince Charming in every way. ;)
I thought the cartoon was amusing yet sad, because it is so true. Both men and women often buy into those unrealistic fantasies depicted and the seed is planted early in life by the media, fairytales, Disney, etc.
Yeah I thought it was hilarious - as well as all the other one's stereotyping males vs. females. But sad too in that many people DO have these expectations about a partner and will never be satisfied with having a more realistic relationship. Always expecting and wanting more because that's how so and so on TV lives! Almost like our consumer fantasies - so many want the latest and greatest stuff be it's better - and we extend that belief to our mates by wanting a better (i.e. TV Land "better") mate. I always thought that someone should write a marriage guidebook based on real married life for women titled "Real Men Fart! :devil:! Actually that should probably be for men as well as in "Real Woman..." well, don't actually fart but make cute little noises when no one is near :-)!
Pen Rant? I remember a Scissors Rant, running around this house trying to find a freekin' pair of scissors that worked. Only ONE freekin bloody pair did I need. Rant rant rant.
The next morning here's what greeted me: 12 pairs of scissors lined up on the counter. DH had patiently gone around the house and gathered each pair of scissors that we owned and laid them out, making a silent statement. He never said a word.
It made me laugh, it was so sly. To this day I've got a photos of those scissors on the counter, will keep it as a marriage memento.
I totally get this. My SO's thing is misplaced keys (his). Since I'm very much a "place for every thing and every thing in its place" kind of guy I don't get this. I've tried putting a couple of "SO Baskets" in strategic places so that when I find something of his in a random spot (keys/wallet/etc) I just put it in the nearest basket. This cut SO's key rant problem by about 75%, which was great, but finally I did something similar to your husband. I went to the hardware store and had 4 sets of keys made. At least one is always in the official place in the kitchen, so if he can't find his he'll just take one of the 'extra' sets instead of having to look for his. As I find keys around teh house I just put them away in the official kitchen spot for them.
I find that it helps to ask more specific questions. Not general ones. "How did the interview go?" will be met with "fine" as an answer.
ie... So what types of questions did they ask you at the interview? What departments did they have you interview with? What types of situations did they set up for you to problem solve? etc...
Ask a guy how they felt about a movie... you'll get a quick answer. As a guy if and how they related to the male lead in the movie, you'll get a more detailed answer.
JMO
Although i'm a gay man I identify with a lot of what the other men have said and what what spartana and others have said about men in terms of just not wanting to discuss my feelings and that if I say i'm fine, then I am. No further discussion needed.
Asking how I related to a male lead in the movie would either get a blank stare from me or an obnoxious response regarding the ways "I'd like to relate to" the male lead if I happened to find him attractive.
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-11, 11:46am
For me personally, I think when I was younger I much more fit the stereotype of the guy who wouldn't talk much, never about feelings, and who only spoke of surface things. Now that I am 44 and have reached a point where I don't care much of what others think of me, I am much more open to talking about things like feelings - goals - dreams - wishes - I don't know what all, more touchy feely things. But I am also an introvert so I have a very few people who I am this open with - others are going to see much less of this in me if any. Rob
I totally get this. My SO's thing is misplaced keys (his). Since I'm very much a "place for every thing and every thing in its place" kind of guy I don't get this. I've tried putting a couple of "SO Baskets" in strategic places so that when I find something of his in a random spot (keys/wallet/etc) I just put it in the nearest basket. This cut SO's key rant problem by about 75%, which was great, but finally I did something similar to your husband. I went to the hardware store and had 4 sets of keys made. At least one is always in the official place in the kitchen, so if he can't find his he'll just take one of the 'extra' sets instead of having to look for his. As I find keys around teh house I just put them away in the official kitchen spot for them.
Dang. This thread is full of brilliant ideas only somewhat related to the OP. I am NOTORIOUS for losing my keys and DH is not a whole lot better. I don't know why it has never occured to me to just have a bunch of keys made. I got one of those carabiner clips for my keys and usually attach it to my purse now, which has helped some, but I'm thinking this could eliminate my frustration all together.
Asking how I related to a male lead in the movie would either get a blank stare from me or an obnoxious response regarding the ways "I'd like to relate to" the male lead if I happened to find him attractive.
For this reason I always brace myself if I accompany any of my gay (male) friends to a movie that has Javier Bardem in it. They seem to always relate to Javier Bardem, or at least would like to :D
There are many types of men (and women). Check out the Myers Briggs type indicator if you never have - there are talkers, feelers, judgers, all kinds. None is right and none is wrong. I'm a big believer in finding people that fit my style, rather than trying to mold someone into what I'd prefer. {shrug}
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