MANY in U.S. need YMOYL, apparently.

[loosechickens]

I found this SO discouraging. Most Americans can't even handle $1,000 in unexpected expense without selling something, charging it on a credit card, borrowing from someone or not paying other bills.

Congratulations to every one of you who have taken the principles in YMOYL to heart and built up emergency funds, however modest, taken measures to reduce or eliminate debt, and are therefore in a much better position than many in this article.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/10/pf/emergency_fund/index.htm

Sometimes I think it would be a good idea to stand on street corners like some of those preachers, and preach YMOYL. Would be so helpful to so many.

[Gardenarian]

Wow, that is hard to believe! My 12yo has more than $1000 in rainy day funds.

Please, go out on the street corner and tell people the good news - You don't need to spend all your money as soon as you get it!

[fidgiegirl]

I have often felt compelled to share YMOYL and its message with others, but money is such a tender topic. I have a cousin right now, in fact, to whom I would like to mail Dave Ramsey's book. I know it's not YMOYL, but YMOYL is a lot to get one's head around and I think DR would be more accessible for her. I think she would benefit so much. But we're not that close, so not sure if it would be appropriate.

ETA: I have had success engaging people in YMOYL when they are closest to me. Then I can speak freely about the impact it's had on my life (life-changing) and others want to take a look purely from my enthusiasm.

[puglogic]

I would like to teach YMOYL. The newest version, YMOYL v3.0, so to speak. I just have to get my mind around how best to offer it to our community. Many here (small town, middle-class, kids) would really benefit from at least pondering its basic tenets.

[lhamo]

I have often felt compelled to share YMOYL and its message with others, but money is such a tender topic. I have a cousin right now, in fact, to whom I would like to mail Dave Ramsey's book. I know it's not YMOYL, but YMOYL is a lot to get one's head around and I think DR would be more accessible for her. I think she would benefit so much. But we're not that close, so not sure if it would be appropriate.



I would have a copy delivered to her anonymously -- you just might change her life. She might not be ready for it yet, but if she is DR is actually a great place to start. I don't really agree with some of his more conservative/evangelical attitudes, but his basic message is solid and I do enjoy listening to his podcast just to hear people screaming about being debt free. It is really inspirational and maybe the book will get her exposed to that, which might help.

lhamo

[ljevtich]

Puglogic - one of the best ways to go about doing that is to check out community colleges, churches/religious centers, and senior community centers. Charge only a $5 fee (have to charge something otherwise people won't show up) and say that the money will go to something other than yourself. Have a basic, intermediate, and advanced classes only a couple of hours as most will be overwhelmed.

I have often thought about doing something like this but choose to spread the word via my website as I show the expenses we have every month and have done so for the past 4 years. However, my DH and I are full-time RVers but we live pretty frugally. We have gone from living with two incomes to living on one very small one and have enjoyment in simple pleasures. It has worked well for us.

You might also try to set up a blog or website, to direct people to it. It could help get your message across, plus you could have worksheets on it as well.

[pinkytoe]

In our younger days before learning to be frugal, we were in the same boat. Some of it was poor planning and some was due to circumstance. Any large expense had to go on a credit card as we had little if any savings. Getting laid off in the late 80s and losing everything finally taught us the hard way about the importance of a nest egg. Nowadays I get the same thrill from putting money in the savings account that I used to get from spending it.

[gimmethesimplelife]

In our younger days before learning to be frugal, we were in the same boat. Some of it was poor planning and some was due to circumstance. Any large expense had to go on a credit card as we had little if any savings. Getting laid off in the late 80s and losing everything finally taught us the hard way about the importance of a nest egg. Nowadays I get the same thrill from putting money in the savings account that I used to get from spending it.I know what you mean about the thrill of saving money vs. spending it.....The crazier my job has gotten up here, the more and more I just want to save EVERYTHING, what a thrill it is to see the numbers rise and know it's mine! Rob

[Spartana]

Unfortunatly, at least in my experience, most people aren't interested in the whole YMOYL concept. It seems many think that it's all about denying themselves a good quality of life because they equate "quality" with having upscale things and lifestyle. I think many are more interested in the Dave Ramsey approach - live frugally, work lots, save, save, save and earn, earn, earn so that you can increase wealth and eventually "live like no one else" and have all the finer things in life! While I think that's fine, it doesn't show how living frugally, living with less, and living smaller without all the finer things in life can, in and of it's self, be a very rewarding way to live. You don't need to spend your life working, working, working on some crazy rat track treadmill so that you can have all that wealth eventually. THAT's the focus of YMOYL that needs to get out to more people. Not everyone can spend their lives building wealth ala Dave Ramsy style, but most can find a fulfilling and wonderful life with "less" ala YMOYL.

[puglogic]

ljevtich, I think that's a great idea. And spartana, I agree with you, and it's a fear of mine. BUT I think as we spiral downward into our next recession, there may be a lot more interest in living frugally -- especially if I can show that your quality of life can actually increase in so many ways. LC, thanks for this thread.

[jp1]

My experience has been that unless someone has specifically expressed repeatedly an interest in better managing their money it's not especially productive to go into great detail about YMOYL.

Typically when a "money" conversation gets started I'll focus on specific things YMOYL prompted me to do. The initial thing is tracking one's expenses. Obviously without that the rest doesn't flow. So I'll mention that when I decided that I wanted to start saving money I started tracking my expenses and was stunned to learn that I was spending $120/month just eating lunch out and I didn't even enjoy it. So now I bring my lunch most days. I'll point out that I like the food better, I don't have waste time waiting on line somewhere to buy lunch, and I've saved $1,000s over the years. A win win. No pain involved beyond packing up the previous night's dinner leftovers and remembering to bring them to work.

In my experience if you can't even get buy-in and action on a super-easy win like bringing lunch to work there's not much chance of getting them further into YMOYL.

I wish everyone I knew were ready for YMOYL. As most of us here know, it really is a life changing thing to control your money instead of the opposite. In 1993 I got laid off from my job and went home in a panic wondering where the next month's rent would come from. Today I go to work every day knowing that if I was told that it was my last day I'd be disappointed but not devastated. I'd probably go home and, if the weather warranted, I'd rent a zipcar and go to the beach, enjoy my unexpected free afternoon and worry about everything tomorrow.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I know what you mean about the thrill of saving money vs. spending it.....The crazier my job has gotten up here, the more and more I just want to save EVERYTHING, what a thrill it is to see the numbers rise and know it's mine! Rob

Yea I get the motivation, but that type of motivation I can't sustain. There are times I get so fed up by what the economic system means on the WORKING side of it, that it's like: "I'm going to take it out on the consumer side of it! This is WAR!!!" I'm never going to spend one penny I don't have to for survival ever again!" But I can't sustain that motivation because it's motivation by hate and ....... well I was born to be motivated by love. :) But yea I really was born to motivated with an attraction to what I want and love in life, rather than just sustaining some grudge (no matter how messed up the economic system is .... until it can be overthrown :~)).

[jp1]

Thanks to my parents I was taught early on that the power of compounding interest goes both ways. Consequently I've only ever paid a fairly small amount of interest on borrowed money.

Apathetic, I agree with you that being on the 'working' side of the economic system isn't that fun, (although as much as is possible working for ‘the man’, I do actually enjoy my current job.)

Years ago I read a book by Harry Browne called "How I found freedom in an unfree world." At its most basic level the point of the book was that it's much much easier to control yourself and what situations you allow yourself to be in then it is to try and change other people. In the context of not liking being a 'worker' in the current economic system that meant to me that it was likely going to be far easier to change my personal situation regarding whether I HAVE to work (by saving enough to live on without working) then it would be to try and change our entire economic system. I've been focused on the former ever since. So, while I agree that there are many many things I don’t like about our current system, my motivation for saving is not hatred of it, but rather simply a desire to win the game as the system currently exists, since that’s something that’s within my power, whereas changing the whole system is probably not within my power.

[loosechickens]

Ah, I loved that book.......just the "previous investment trap" section has served me over the years in so many ways......knowing when to cut your losses and walk away from any situation rather than to continue to have the attitude of "well, I've already spent so much time, money, etc., that I can't just..........". Great, great book, and timeless. Always so much easier to adjust your own attitudes and actions than to expect to change realities or other people. For sure.

[flowerseverywhere]

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/12/current-events-in-stupidland/

you have to read this guys take on not having $1000 on hand. his blog is interesting and in this case right on target. Buy nothing until you have an emergency fund. Nothing but enough food so you don't starve. Sell your car and ride a bike etc.

[Rogar]

I've thought several times that "if I were in charge" there would be a manditory class for high schoolers or freshmen college students on personal finance and basic macro economics. I don't know that it's so much that people have no concept of YMOYL, but more that you can't spend more than you make and get away with it for very long. Also that interest on credit cards can eat you alive. Etc. I picture it as a basic Suzie Orman approach. Maybe YMOYL or Dave Ramsey would be in the advanced program. The basics of supply and demand, banking regulation, and how the government uses monetary policy to help the economy. If we had this, it could be one of the eductational frills that would get cut, but I wonder what effect this might have had on the last couple of financial crisis if we had it in place.

Any more I sometimes feel like I'm doing an old geezer rant, as I also think that if would still had good music programs in our schools that taught basic harmony, octaves, meter, and beat, we might have avoided rap and Lady Gaga.

You get what you pay for.

[jennipurrr]

When we were delving into YMOYL DH and I wanted to sing it from the rooftops. We realized pretty quickly that almost no one was interested in listening. Or people would have this interest but then not want to do anything different. So we just kept doing what we are doing and got ahead and other people are still stagnating, complaining, etc. That is part of the reason I made my mortgage blog...so that people could see our struggle but then our success, without it being rammed down anyone's throat. I want to share the journey though, to let people know there is a different way and you don't have to be a nut to accomplish it. There is ignorance out there, but I see people every day who know basic financial skills and are still drowning in debt. I have a friend who is a financial analyst for a large defense contractor and her personal finances are a mess! I am not sure what (if anything) will make those people living on the edge change...maybe a crisis and not being able to continue the lifestyle? I guess that is what it is going to take for a lot of people.

[bicyclist]

One thing which I have learned about discussing financial strategies is that everyone is in a different place, has experiences that influence their thinking quite powerfully and requires a good bit of listening before they are open to a real discussion of what to do with their money.
YMOYL is more than a financial strategy, it is a different way to live your life based on a different understanding of money. So it requires more time and effort to explain to others.
Others on this thread have got it right that many people are in a jam and could use the insights from Joe's book but they are in such a crisis, they need someone to listen and help them figure out how to get some control back over their situation. Then, they might be able to sit down and study how to change they way they hae been going about their lives. A few might be able to do that right away but not most.
A friend has a trying situation where he owes more money on two properties than they can be sold for and a large previous debt. He has decided to sell the houses and move out despite having a well paid job. It was a huge step for him and it will take a long time to get out from under all of the debt but at least he is trying. He could not have done it without support from a lot of people, myself included. One day he hopes to author a book and is not giving up on his goal.

[Dragline]

IMO, this is a "build it and they will come" issue. These values are old and are timeless and predate YMOYL. They may remain hidden or unpopular, but they come back in times of crisis and stress. Substitute frugality for baseball in this old movie quote and you will get the idea:

"Ray, people will come Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. Of course, we won't mind if you look around, you'll say. It's only $20 per person. They'll pass over the money without even thinking about it: for it is money they have and peace they lack. And they'll walk out to the bleachers; sit in shirtsleeves on a perfect afternoon. They'll find they have reserved seats somewhere along one of the baselines, where they sat when they were children and cheered their heroes. And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come Ray. People will most definitely come."

So I don't think we need to stand on street corners or speak loudly or try to tell people what to do. All we need to do is live our lives in earnest and be willing to share our knowledge and serenity with those who are ready. And they will come.

[Mighty Frugal]

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/12/current-events-in-stupidland/

you have to read this guys take on not having $1000 on hand. his blog is interesting and in this case right on target. Buy nothing until you have an emergency fund. Nothing but enough food so you don't starve. Sell your car and ride a bike etc.

thanks for this. I've 'liked' him and will spend the rest of this week reading his posts-love his style

[HKPassey]

I would like to teach YMOYL. The newest version, YMOYL v3.0, so to speak. I just have to get my mind around how best to offer it to our community. Many here (small town, middle-class, kids) would really benefit from at least pondering its basic tenets.

You might connect with the thread under the FI forum: http://www.simplelivingforum.net/forumdisplay.php?44-Spreading-the-Word

Rozie's trying to create a community of support between people teaching/wanting to teach the YMOYL principles. You might get some great ideas, or provide some.

:+1: