View Full Version : The President's Speech tonight
Well, I just read over the White House's posting of the points of Obama's speech tonight. And while I didn't really expect a miracle, I don't see anything that will really help me. I'm a 99-er, out of work for more than 2 years. My UC benefits have run out. There's nothing to help people who have run out of benefits--unless you call giving businesses incentives/breaks to hire the unemployed help.
Um...first you have to get hired. And first there have to be jobs in your field.
Thanks a lot, dude. :help:
I am so disappointed in this administration.
The message I got from President Obama was that "we do not have 14 months" to wait until the next election to get people back to work. The problem seems to be that Obama simply cannot get any kind of major initiative (and I actually thing $450B is way too small) through a congress that is focused on cutting spending, lowering taxes, and removing regulations as the only solution.
I really do think that any hope of any type of continued benefits for those suffering the most are "dead on arrival" in the Tea Bagger dominated House of Representatives. I think the decision has been made that it is more important to take the White House than to help the American people. Pretty Sad.
I do think Obama made a plea to the American public to demand better. We do not have time to continue this partisian bickering at the expense of so many people in need. I will be calling my Representatives and letting them know how I feel. Hope it does some good?
Peace
Mangano's Gold
9-8-11, 11:05pm
I thought it was Obama's best speech his the campaign.
Ladyinblack, do you think UI benefits should be extended for 99'ers? Tier V in 99'er speak?
I thought it was Obama's best speech his the campaign.
:D
Mangano's Gold
9-8-11, 11:17pm
:D
Yeah, they all campaign all the time. Unfortunately.
But where I come from "his" mean "since". Thanks for noticing. :-)
I caught most of it on radio on the drive home from work. I noticed the difference in tone and forcefulness immediately.
Another speech. We need action.
Yes, I do. It's not fair to just cut people off w/out any help. For six months, I was required to prove that I applied to a minimum of two jobs per week. I guess that's to prove we're not freeloading or something. Did I get a job, even though I applied for two and sometimes more jobs? No.
So how can they justify cutting people off, even after 99 weeks?
I have a friend who has been out of work since June 2008. She is an Ivy League graduate with a master's degree, and goes on interviews just about every week. She is having better luck than I am, but still has no job. Her husband, a chemical engineer with a master's, also ran out of UC benefits. What are people supposed to do in a situation like this?
I thought it was Obama's best speech his the campaign.
Ladyinblack, do you think UI benefits should be extended for 99'ers? Tier V in 99'er speak?
Until he gets serious about shutting down these banks and restructuring them like Roosevelt did first thing out of the box in 1933, all of this is window dressing and we are doomed to an endless downturn like Japan in the past two decades. He really missed his chance in 2009, which may cost him a second term. People need to take to the streets (real and electronic). Don't expect anything from the government with a divided Congress (other than campaigning).
gimmethesimplelife
9-9-11, 2:38am
Well, I just read over the White House's posting of the points of Obama's speech tonight. And while I didn't really expect a miracle, I don't see anything that will really help me. I'm a 99-er, out of work for more than 2 years. My UC benefits have run out. There's nothing to help people who have run out of benefits--unless you call giving businesses incentives/breaks to hire the unemployed help.
Um...first you have to get hired. And first there have to be jobs in your field.
Thanks a lot, dude. :help:
I am so disappointed in this administration.Ladyinblack, maybe I am way off here (?), but I think I read online one of his aims is to extend benefits to the long term unemployed for another year (?) Does this not impact the 99'ers? I did not watch the speech and could totally be misinterpreting this, anyone care to jump on board who knows if this means an extension to the 99'ers? Rob PS I'm sending good job finding vibes out your way....hang in there!
ApatheticNoMore
9-9-11, 4:30am
Yea, I agree it's weak.
Well I thought it was a good speech. I found it interesting where the ill bred, rude republicans giggled. Or didn't applaud at all. Seems they really don't care about jobs for the unemployed. They didn't applaud at the tax break for employers who hire someone who has been out of work for more than 6 months, they didn't applaud at the tax breaks for small business who add jobs, They didn't applaud at incentives to bring jobs back to the US. They didn't applaud for infrastructure building on schools and roads, putting their own constituents to work and kids on a better path to keep us rolling in the future. The only thing they really seemed to like is dismantle the government. Stupid stupid people. How about we start with their jobs.
Actually Ladyinblack, the republicans wouldn't have given you the months you've already gotten. You'd of gotten maybe 6, tops. And really, it's not the Presidents job to personally hand you a job. I don't know what your job is, but maybe you will have to move to where the jobs are, or re-train if your field is saturated.
poetry_writer
9-9-11, 11:33am
Well I thought it was a good speech. I found it interesting where the ill bred, rude republicans giggled. Or didn't applaud at all. Seems they really don't care about jobs for the unemployed. They didn't applaud at the tax break for employers who hire someone who has been out of work for more than 6 months, they didn't applaud at the tax breaks for small business who add jobs, They didn't applaud at incentives to bring jobs back to the US. They didn't applaud for infrastructure building on schools and roads, putting their own constituents to work and kids on a better path to keep us rolling in the future. The only thing they really seemed to like is dismantle the government. Stupid stupid people. How about we start with their jobs.
Actually Ladyinblack, the republicans wouldn't have given you the months you've already gotten. You'd of gotten maybe 6, tops. And really, it's not the Presidents job to personally hand you a job. I don't know what your job is, but maybe you will have to move to where the jobs are, or re-train if your field is saturated.
Your comments are common. Move. Retrain. Really? Where to? On what? Whos hiring? So many have no idea what it is like out there for the 99ers. I am on my second round of unemployment. I dont think at this point anyone is going to be creating more jobs. Things are too bad. That is why I am looking at alternatives to the way we have lived....
Dharma Bum
9-9-11, 12:33pm
Where to? ... Whos hiring?
No training required: http://www.gpb.org/news/2011/06/08/survey-finds-widespread-farm-labor-shortages
No training required: http://www.gpb.org/news/2011/06/08/survey-finds-widespread-farm-labor-shortages
They'd have the workers if they'd offer wages workers would accept - but then their crops would be too expensive to find buyers.
And there may not be a large amount of training - but skill is essential. I've done manual labor work - I could never go fast enough to keep up.
Scrape off the condescension and posturing, and there were a few good things in it. The usual serving of pork for the teachers’ unions, but it could have been worse. Looks like he aims to pay for it by taxing “the rich” and oil companies and the customary “this time we mean it” spending cuts to be identified at some future date by a committee of the guys who created the problem in the first place. You have to give him credit for consistency; and he didn’t impinge on Aaron Rodgers’ time.
The President appears to be setting himself up as Harry Truman circa 1948, running against a “do-nothing Congress”. It goes well with the “none of this is my fault” theme he adopted at the beginning of his administration.
ApatheticNoMore
9-9-11, 2:30pm
They didn't applaud at the tax break for employers who hire someone who has been out of work for more than 6 months
It's an attempt to counter the discrimination the long term unemployed are facing without making such discrimination illegal. I'm not sure it's a better solution though. For one thing employers often spend a lot of money finding employees. I've worked at places that had employee referal bonuses of around 2k and that was a good deal because it was a lot cheaper than recruiters! :|( So how does a tax cut stack up against the total cost employers are paying to find people? Like all such measures it's messy. Who counts as long term unemployed? Newly minted young college grads who can't find work for long periods of time? Or only those collecting unemployment? I do understand the intent here. There is real discrimination going on out there, on age, on how long people have been unemployed etc., etc., etc. But shifting employment around (what this does and very imprefectly compared to anti-discrimination laws) only helps so much when there aren't enough jobs to go around. If it works at all it just switches who the favored group to get jobs today is, meanwhile unemployment stays high.
They didn't applaud for infrastructure building on schools and roads, putting their own constituents to work and kids on a better path to keep us rolling in the future.
How useful are these projects for real long term goals? Getting off oil? But that doesn't matter because the focus is jobs, jobs, jobs. Ok so what if it doesn't even stimulate the economy long term (though it will no doubt employ some now), wouldn't you at least like something that is actually useful for the future built? The great Depression at least built things like Hoover dam, in use for decades. We repair highways when everyone knows that we need alternative transport.
I don't know what your job is, but maybe you will have to move to where the jobs are, or re-train if your field is saturated.
Moving sometimes makes sense yes. Re-training isn't as shiny as it sometimes appears. Retraining makes sense if your field has gone away. In a field like housing construction in a bubble state it seems to make sense, because that field was driven by things like the housing bubble that we may (hopefully) never see again. But what if your field wasn't a field in a bubble but just an ordinary field for which demand has gone down because demand for employees has gone down across the board, and suppose it has gone down no more in your field than in most others. Then how much are you really gaining by switching from one field in which demand has gone down to another in which it may also have gone down (because demand is down in most fields across the board)? Meanwhile instead of your cards consisting of a wealth of experience in your field, your cards consist of some newly minted certificate or even degree with no experience. Um experience in general (until you run into age discrimination) is the better hand to have and play in my opinion! I guess if your retraining is at least similar to your previous roles you have a better shot.
Meanwhile we have this job bill but we don't have the other hand which is the deficit reduction bill that is coming in a few weeks. Ok so exactly what is being cut to pay for this job bill? What are the costs of 2 or 3% reduced FICA taxes that are part of the jobs bill? Noone really knows. Tax cuts one day, and the spending cuts to pay for it don't come until the next. This is feeling familiar.
Parts of the speech were pretty funny. Like the part where he emphasized that "this is not class warfare" (it's not like all the other times, I promise), and when he reminded us of the old Warren Buffett lament about how he should be forced to pay more taxes, when we all know that Berkshire Hathaway is desperately trying not to pay the $1B in taxes it's owed for the past decade. I laughed out loud at both of those.
And the part about Lincoln founding the Republican Party. Boy, he missed that one by a mile. Good thing he's not Sarah Palin, or Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann, or Herman Cain. We'd never hear the end of that one.
Parts of the speech were pretty funny. Like the part where he emphasized that "this is not class warfare" (it's not like all the other times, I promise), and when he reminded us of the old Warren Buffett lament about how he should be forced to pay more taxes, when we all know that Berkshire Hathaway is desperately trying not to pay the $1B in taxes it's owed for the past decade. I laughed out loud at both of those.
And the part about Lincoln founding the Republican Party. Boy, he missed that one by a mile. Good thing he's not Sarah Palin, or Rick Perry or Michelle Bachmann, or Herman Cain. We'd never hear the end of that one.
Is there nothing in the bill that you would support or are you simply against it no matter what if it is not coming from the Republican Party?
Peace
poetry_writer
9-9-11, 3:39pm
They'd have the workers if they'd offer wages workers would accept - but then their crops would be too expensive to find buyers.
And there may not be a large amount of training - but skill is essential. I've done manual labor work - I could never go fast enough to keep up.
I'm 53 yrs old with health restrictions to that kind of work. But Dharmas response is common.
ApatheticNoMore
9-9-11, 4:00pm
Well suppose you were a healthy 25 year old. Ideal job? Not if your are a 25 year old female who wants kids someday. Pretty heavy pesticide exposure you can get into with agricultural work with potential risks to your future offspring (yes of course this doesn't much apply if it is organic farming, but most agriculture isn't).
So really not just decent pay, but less hazardous conditions are needed (organic farming), and then well they'd still probably pull mostly from a pool of young men, but they might well apply.
I just find it odd that people think they should be supported indefinitely by others while they look for work they want. I was a pretty good cornerback in high school. Maybe I should be able to collect unemployment indefinitely until the NFL offers me a spot.
loosechickens
9-9-11, 4:26pm
I didn't get to hear the President's speech, as I wasn't home and not near a radio or TV, but from comments I've heard, it still looks to me as though the Republicans are so focused on bringing this President down, at whatever cost to the country, that it will still be hard to get even the most commonsense parts of the proposal (much of which was supported by Republicans until beating Obama overshadowed everything else on earth).
I'm sorry.....I know personally people who have been out of work until their unemployment ran out, they lost their homes, moved in with family, have no health insurance, are sick from stress and anxiety, and have years and years to go before they can collect Social Security, yet find absolutely NO employers, even those with jobs on offer, to employ a person 50 years old or older, regardless of experience. They are either "overqualified", or "wouldn't fit in", "might be lacking current skills", or a whole host of other reasons, but once you are out of a job, it is hard as heck to find another one if you are middleaged. The people I know would clean hotel rooms, clerk in a store, or do menial jobs.....any job, if they could, but haven't even been able to land temp jobs sometimes. And if you put some health issues in the mix, it's worse yet.
Some can talk in very highflown ways about some expecting others to support them, and while I seldom wish ill for people, sometimes I'd like some of those people to have just a small opportunity to walk some miles in those moccasins. It's SO easy to think it's so easy, when you're sitting with a job, insurance, etc. And so hard to fathom what could happen to you if the gods decide you need to be taken down a peg or two.
Is there nothing in the bill that you would support or are you simply against it no matter what if it is not coming from the Republican Party?
Peace
I'll give him credit for trying, although we've already tried all these things with negligible effect. I'd like to know more about how we'll pay for the expenditures, but I guess we'll have to wait another week or so to hear any more about that.
My biggest take-away from his speech was that we are again seemingly willing to spend a lot, for short term gain, while punting the pay-back as far down the field as possible. It seems to me that's the sort of thinking that's gotten us, and a good part of the rest of the world, into such a financial mess in the first place. I also think that if he'd just said "We're gonna lift the drilling moratorium in the US and fast-track the permitting process", we'd see a much more productive boost to the jobs market and our economy than this "stimulus" (I understand the Democrats have forbidden further usage of this word) could possibly provide.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I see that the Dow is down close to 300 points again today, so I'm thinking that I'm not alone in my concerns.
And so hard to fathom what could happen to you if the gods decide you need to be taken down a peg or two.
While you are trying to fathom it, some of us have lived it. Moving and changing careers is hard. So it feels a little unfair to those of us who made the sacrifices when we had to when, on top of that, we are asked to support indefinitely those who won't. No one is saying people don't deserve a safety net, but you don't get to lay in the hammock all day while other folks mow your lawn.
So how can they justify cutting people off, even after 99 weeks?
Because unless you have a physical or mental disability you can pick fruit or scrub floors or work for minimum wage at Micky D's. Why in the world should the govmint- the taxpayers - be responsible for taking care of you beyond 2 years of funding unemployment if you are capable to work at something even if it's not a professional high paying job you had before? Downsize, share a room or apt with 5 other people, take in borders, work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs, give up the car, ride the bus, eat rice and beans at every meal. Sorry I sound harsh as I realize how hard the job situation is but sometimes you have to do ANYTHING you can, no matter how humble it is, to just get by in life.
No training required: http://www.gpb.org/news/2011/06/08/survey-finds-widespread-farm-labor-shortages
I posted somewhere else about farmers having a difficult time finding employees in the US for harvasting job (even at $12/hour much more than minimum wage) so they had to get migrant workers from Mexico (and yes, they are paying them $12/hour too). Some jobs like that are to hard for elderly or infirm or disabled workers (which I think poety writer said she had a physical disability) but there ARE lots of jobs out there. Halliburton is hiring something like 15,000 jobs right now in North Dakota - many are unskilled and many are office type jobs, not just field positions. Check out their web site.
loosechickens
9-9-11, 5:33pm
"Maybe I'm wrong, but I see that the Dow is down close to 300 points again today, so I'm thinking that I'm not alone in my concerns." (Alan)
---------------------------------------------------
nice try, Alan, but the Dow tanked today on concerns and worries about European debt, and possible, even probable default by Greece, and not because of anything President Obama said about jobs.
ApatheticNoMore
9-9-11, 5:36pm
Halliburton eh? See government job creation programs do work ....
(Conscience would bother me about working for Halliburton for sure, various illegal professions are probably more ethical)
I also think that if he'd just said "We're gonna lift the drilling moratorium in the US and fast-track the permitting process"
I am really hoping that is not the case. Try living in a state that is totally infatuated with oil/gas and coal people and you might begin to understand the type of environment both physically and socially that creates. I really do think it is time to move on the our next energy source before we totally destroy our environment. Fracking is such a nasty business - no matter how much the oil/gas companies spend trying to convince us otherwise. Now we are talking abut drilling in what were formally protected areas. With you attitude you would make a good Tea Bagger!!
Sigh - I guess we will have to look to China for the lead on that. Man I just despise the oil lobby.
Peace
Halliburton eh? See government job creation programs do work ....
(Conscience would bother me about working for Halliburton for sure, various illegal professions are probably more ethical)
Well I'm a vegan but would eat my grandma AND my dog (in that order) if I was starving :-)! Sometimes ya gotta do the hard stuff.
"Maybe I'm wrong, but I see that the Dow is down close to 300 points again today, so I'm thinking that I'm not alone in my concerns." (Alan)
---------------------------------------------------
nice try, Alan, but the Dow tanked today on concerns and worries about European debt, and possible, even probable default by Greece, and not because of anything President Obama said about jobs.
And how much closer will these actions take us to the same levels of European debt and possible default? I'm thinking nearly a half trillion dollars closer.
poetry_writer
9-9-11, 7:54pm
Because unless you have a physical or mental disability you can pick fruit or scrub floors or work for minimum wage at Micky D's. Why in the world should the govmint- the taxpayers - be responsible for taking care of you beyond 2 years of funding unemployment if you are capable to work at something even if it's not a professional high paying job you had before? Downsize, share a room or apt with 5 other people, take in borders, work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs, give up the car, ride the bus, eat rice and beans at every meal. Sorry I sound harsh as I realize how hard the job situation is but sometimes you have to do ANYTHING you can, no matter how humble it is, to just get by in life.
You do sound harsh. I am eating beans and cornbread tonight. You do not realize how hard the job situation is or you wouldnt say such a ridiculous thing.
poetry_writer
9-9-11, 7:58pm
I posted somewhere else about farmers having a difficult time finding employees in the US for harvasting job (even at $12/hour much more than minimum wage) so they had to get migrant workers from Mexico (and yes, they are paying them $12/hour too). Some jobs like that are to hard for elderly or infirm or disabled workers (which I think poety writer said she had a physical disability) but there ARE lots of jobs out there. Halliburton is hiring something like 15,000 jobs right now in North Dakota - many are unskilled and many are office type jobs, not just field positions. Check out their web site.
Do you really believe there are thousands of jobs sitting out there and no one wants them? Have you ever had chest pains you ignored because you didnt want to run up a doctor or ER bill? Or gone without a meal? Or been unable to pay your rent? Think about it.
I could not have put it better myself, loosechickens.
I'm sorry.....I know personally people who have been out of work until their unemployment ran out, they lost their homes, moved in with family, have no health insurance, are sick from stress and anxiety, and have years and years to go before they can collect Social Security, yet find absolutely NO employers, even those with jobs on offer, to employ a person 50 years old or older, regardless of experience. They are either "overqualified", or "wouldn't fit in", "might be lacking current skills", or a whole host of other reasons, but once you are out of a job, it is hard as heck to find another one if you are middleaged. The people I know would clean hotel rooms, clerk in a store, or do menial jobs.....any job, if they could, but haven't even been able to land temp jobs sometimes. And if you put some health issues in the mix, it's worse yet.
Some can talk in very highflown ways about some expecting others to support them, and while I seldom wish ill for people, sometimes I'd like some of those people to have just a small opportunity to walk some miles in those moccasins. It's SO easy to think it's so easy, when you're sitting with a job, insurance, etc. And so hard to fathom what could happen to you if the gods decide you need to be taken down a peg or two.
Well...I certainly didn't intend to start a snipefest here.
But let me say a few things. First, I am not prepared to move somewhere to pick fruit temporarily. I'm not going to move, period. Here is why. For 11 years we have rented a home that costs less than half of most apartments, and the landlord, while he does no work on the place, has not raised the rent since we moved in. I'll never find such a place again.
Second, no, I do not expect the government to support me indefinitely. But do you know what it feels like when you can't even get hired at Starbucks? Oh sure, just go get a minimum wage job. And they ask you, "Aren't you just going to leave when something better comes along?" And you smile and say, "No, I would love to work here. I have no intention of leaving." Do you think they are idiots and actually believe a lie like that? I've applied in my former field (legal secretary) and I've been out of the field for so long that no one even wants to talk to me. I worked in journalism/newspapers (a dying field, as you know) and in public relations (one of the first things that gets cut, like advertising) for 15 years. Tell me, why SHOULD Burger King be dying to hire me?
I've applied at libraries, telling them I am interested in going to library school. Didn't get me anywhere. Took two civil service tests, one for clerical and one for a disability claims adjudicator. Nothing.
I don't spend money like a drunken sailor, we don't even have regular TV, much less cable or satellite, we're vegetarians so we ARE eating rice and beans, I have one car that gets 30 mph, pay the lowest I can for insurance. WTF else do you want from me? I'm trying my best.
Sorry for sounding so angry. But I feel like I was sold a bill of goods somewhere, somehow.
P.S. To Zigzagman, I live in Pa. The fracking is going on here, too. Big, big, big mistake.
Because unless you have a physical or mental disability you can pick fruit or scrub floors or work for minimum wage at Micky D's. Why in the world should the govmint- the taxpayers - be responsible for taking care of you beyond 2 years of funding unemployment if you are capable to work at something even if it's not a professional high paying job you had before? Downsize, share a room or apt with 5 other people, take in borders, work 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs, give up the car, ride the bus, eat rice and beans at every meal. Sorry I sound harsh as I realize how hard the job situation is but sometimes you have to do ANYTHING you can, no matter how humble it is, to just get by in life.
If you think Micky D's will hire a 40 or 50 year old out of work person I have a bridge to sell you. I lived in the Central Valley of California for many years. It is farm country. Farm labors may make $10 an hour if they work fast and don't take breaks. They normally get paid by the pound. By that I mean they pick 60 pounds of peaches and they get paid X dollars. They make more than they would in Mexico but live 5 people to a room. For the most part they are young. No 40 or 50 year old could do the work or even be hired.
flowerseverywhere
9-9-11, 9:55pm
I posted somewhere else about farmers having a difficult time finding employees in the US for harvasting job (even at $12/hour much more than minimum wage) so they had to get migrant workers from Mexico (and yes, they are paying them $12/hour too). Some jobs like that are to hard for elderly or infirm or disabled workers (which I think poety writer said she had a physical disability) but there ARE lots of jobs out there. Halliburton is hiring something like 15,000 jobs right now in North Dakota - many are unskilled and many are office type jobs, not just field positions. Check out their web site.
What if you did everything right like some of our friends. Worked hard at a job that now has been moved out of the country. Bought a house in good faith and paid your mortgage, but due to the crazy housing situation are upside down or barely even on your house? do you think the answer is moving to North Dakota? Or you have an employed spouse or like us live near an elderly parent that needs help. Or have children in school, do you just pull them out and travel to a new area in the hopes things will work out? and where do you get the money to relocate? On your giant unemployment check? Put it on a credit card?
Around us, when applications open at the utility, a new store, or factories hundreds of people line up around the block for a chance to apply, and we are not even in one of the worst areas. And factory jobs here are dangerous, hot in the summer, cold in the winter, often with repetitive work or around chemicals and pay around $30,000. Yet people feel lucky to get them.
Today we met a young black man, who grew up without a father, and was raised mostly by his grandmother. He managed to get a high school diploma despite being in a school that had a 50% graduation rate. He was so thankful that he had gotten a chance for a job, that someone gave him a chance. He met a young lady whose father had some connections and got him in the door. He was so thankful he worked every hour he could, was unbelievably polite and well spoken. How many others are out there that no one believes in and they don't get a chance?
Today we met a young black man, who grew up without a father, and was raised mostly by his grandmother. He managed to get a high school diploma despite being in a school that had a 50% graduation rate. He was so thankful that he had gotten a chance for a job, that someone gave him a chance. He met a young lady whose father had some connections and got him in the door. He was so thankful he worked every hour he could, was unbelievably polite and well spoken. How many others are out there that no one believes in and they don't get a chance?
Are you surprised that he was polite and well spoken? That soft bigotry of low expectations is so distressing.
flowerseverywhere
9-9-11, 11:52pm
Are you surprised that he was polite and well spoken? That soft bigotry of low expectations is so distressing.
go ahead and criticize. I was trying to make a point but if you choose to be negative and critical go right ahead. No matter what anyone posts I can count on someone like you posting something negative. I was not surprised that he was polite and well spoken. I was surprised at how he was so appreciative of given a chance in a world full of businessmen who only want to make a buck, it shows just how screwed up our society is.
go ahead and criticize. I was trying to make a point but if you choose to be negative and critical go right ahead. No matter what anyone posts I can count on someone like you posting something negative. I was not surprised that he was polite and well spoken. I was surprised at how he was so appreciative of given a chance in a world full of businessmen who only want to make a buck, it shows just how screwed up our society is.
It wasn't meant to be critical or negative. Although I still don't understand why it is necessary to point out that a young black man was polite and well spoken, or to follow up with being surprised that he was appreciative of being given a job.
Will we ever get to the point where we are judged by the content of our character rather than the color of our skins? Until then, I'll agree that our society is screwed up.
flowerseverywhere
9-10-11, 12:30am
It wasn't meant to be critical or negative. Although I still don't understand why it is necessary to point out that a young black man was polite and well spoken, or to follow up with being surprised that he was appreciative of being given a job.
Will we ever get to the point where we are judged by the content of our character rather than the color of our skins? Until then, I'll agree that our society is screwed up.
spend a day in my shoes. Since becoming FI I work with special needs kids in an inner city, where you make little money but big reward because sometimes you can make a difference in one child life. You don't make a difference all the time, but sometimes. You are living in a dream world if you think a young black man gets anywhere near the respect or consideration of a white young man when he goes for a job regardless of how he dresses and behaves. He was appreciative of being given a chance because where he grew up there were few instances of someone giving you a second look. and if you think that under the current hate agenda in this country things are going to get better then you need to get down to the streets and see what is really going on. did you grow up with gunshots around your house? Were most of the kids raised by grandparents or single moms? Did you have a bed to sleep in or food on the table? Or did you go to school to get food because there was none in your house, show up without socks in the winter hoping some kind person would help you? because that is the kind of kid I see every time I go to work. In one school I go to in the worst part of the city the kids are so well behaved because they don't want to get kicked out of school because it is the only place they can depend on getting fed and not beat up.
and yes, I think you deliberately were trying to be critical and negative, trying to pick apart what I wrote to put a negative spin on it because maybe it did not fit your narrow idea of what the world is or should be. We are all entitled to an opinion regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
I am among the elite in this country. I was born in the US, educated through college level, grew up in a middle class family with two parents, have access to all the food I want, the internet, cable TV, cars that run, live in a middle class neighborhood in a house I own and am white. But I am not ignorant or racist. I am thankful and willing to spend my time trying to make the world a better place.
My wife does spend a day in your shoes, every day actually, as she works with special needs and disadvantaged kids in our local school district. It's not inner city, but the poorest area of the district. She left her career years ago after we were given the gift of a special needs grandson and she realized that her life's calling was to help the needy and disadvantaged improve their lives. She started in volunteer capacities until the school system would no longer allow un-paid workers, then took a part-time position as an aide (12 hours per week) and now just stick's around for a couple extra hours each day.
One of the things we've noticed is that race has very little to do with life's difficulties, it's more the culture of despair that inhabits our poorest neighborhoods. That culture of despair exists, in part, because so many of us consider ourselves elite and have lower expectations for those who are not like us. I believe that the first step towards eliminating that culture of despair is to stop holding people to lower standards and treat everyone the same.
I've always been disappointed to see race used as a crutch to show just how little regard we do have towards people not just like us. I believe it's human nature for everyone to make every effort to rise to the level of expectations placed upon them. When we have low expectations, we're seldom disappointed.
poetry_writer
9-10-11, 12:03pm
I have seen many people who dont get it. They are usually employed, insured, living in a nice house and simply dont understand why everyone cant find some sort of job. "Get a waitress job. Get SOMETHING. Work at McDonalds. Pick fruit (that one is a doozy). Surely there is SOMEWHERE you can go to the doctor for free...(right)". I have heard just about every comment. I do not wish it on anyone, but some will find out, sadly, the hard way just how bad it is out there. To see it in a realistic way isnt to give up or quit or be lazy. Its simply seeing what is. I do not feel bad about at all about getting unemployment, nor do I care what anyone thinks about it. I have paid my taxes .I will not take a part time Mickey Ds job (they dont hire 50 something women who have never worked in fast food anyway) when my check is actually higher than my salary would be. That would be stupid. Like everyone, the unemployed are trying to feed themselves and keep a roof over their heads. I am single, it is much much worse for families with young children.
P_W - think about this - the unemployment will not last forever so I think the idea is to be able to sustain yourself as you try and transition to somethings that will work for you. I think it would be a perfect time to explore things that you never had the opportunity to do as a steady worker. I know that is what I have done since retirement and it has led me to some really different ideas about things since leaving the high-tech corporate world. So much so that those days are really just a distant memory. The thing I most worry about for you is that sometimes it is easy to get stuck in a rut for long periods which can lead to depression, etc.
Peace
Do you really believe there are thousands of jobs sitting out there and no one wants them? Have you ever had chest pains you ignored because you didnt want to run up a doctor or ER bill? Or gone without a meal? Or been unable to pay your rent? Think about it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes. I grew up with a single mom who had to work 3 minimum wage jobs who didn't or own a car or had any medical insurance for herself or her kids. All the while living with her three kids in a one bedroom 500 sf apt with her mom (my grandma) to make ends meet without EVER taking a single dime in welfare or government aid. So don't assume that because I disagree on the availability of jobs out there, that I haven't been in your situation or worse. It's because I have seen people in much more dire straits (including my family) who have done everything and anything they can to just survive - much more so then most are in today- that I feel the way I do.
And just to add: My Mom lived in East prussia during WWII. She lost both her parents when young and, at 15, the Russians invaded her city, her foster Moms home was bomded to the ground and she lost everything, she and a friend were captured by the Russian military and went to work in a Russian work camp until they escaped, "Sound of Music Style" walking thru war torn Germany, living on rotten potatoes and whatever they could scrounge from the ground, from the Baltic Sea to a refuge camp near Munich were she spent years working odd jobs and living in a filty chicken coop to get by. So for her, she was grateful to have even a crappy minimum wage job flipping burgers and a safe roof over her childrens heads until she could make a better life for herself.
What if you did everything right like some of our friends. Worked hard at a job that now has been moved out of the country. Bought a house in good faith and paid your mortgage, but due to the crazy housing situation are upside down or barely even on your house? do you think the answer is moving to North Dakota? Or you have an employed spouse or like us live near an elderly parent that needs help. Or have children in school, do you just pull them out and travel to a new area in the hopes things will work out? and where do you get the money to relocate? On your giant unemployment check? Put it on a credit card?
Around us, when applications open at the utility, a new store, or factories hundreds of people line up around the block for a chance to apply, and we are not even in one of the worst areas. And factory jobs here are dangerous, hot in the summer, cold in the winter, often with repetitive work or around chemicals and pay around $30,000. Yet people feel lucky to get them.
Today we met a young black man, who grew up without a father, and was raised mostly by his grandmother. He managed to get a high school diploma despite being in a school that had a 50% graduation rate. He was so thankful that he had gotten a chance for a job, that someone gave him a chance. He met a young lady whose father had some connections and got him in the door. He was so thankful he worked every hour he could, was unbelievably polite and well spoken. How many others are out there that no one believes in and they don't get a chance?
Isn't his what people in the Great Depression did? During the Dust Bowl? When towns and villages are wiped out by natural disasters? Most never had any governental help long term - if at all. They packed up and moved if they have to. They take the kids (there are free public schools in every town in the USA), granny and gramps, and try to make a better life for themselves elsewhere. Yes it's heart breaking, yes it's tragic and tramatic but when there isn't a choice, there iisn't a choice. No one wants to give up their home and move into a tiny apt with a bunch of strangers, or move in with their parents or their kids, or into a homeless shelter or crappy little inner city walk-up, but "sh** happens and you just have to survive. I would love to see universal healthcare for all as well as a well funded and guareenteed social security for the elderly and disabled. I would rather fund those things with tax dollars then continue to fund the healthy and fit for longer term (over the 99 weeks) unemployment benefits. I DO believe that Micky D will hire over 50 workers, I DO believe that there are many low wage jobs available for older as well as younger workers (and if we remove illegal workers there will be even more available) and that, if you have been unemployed over two years and haven't found anything yet then you need to re-think the type of jobs you're looking for or the way/place you live. Again, sorry it sounds harsh but at some point you have to throw in the towel and find a way to re-invent your live based on different financial circumstanse rather than expect the govenment to fund you indefinetely And now I'll get off the topic.
From Buisness weekly:
"Halliburton plans to hire 11,000 employees this year and send most of them to the Bakken Shale in North Dakota, which is turning out to be one of the most important oil finds in U.S. history.
Jim Brown, the Western Hemisphere president for Halliburton, revealed the company's plans to CNBC's Jim Cramer, who was broadcasting from the Bakken Shale, the Houston Business Journal reports.
Halliburton will hire employees for multiple job types, from people with MBAs to engineers to unskilled workers, Brown said.
“If you have a willingness to work and an aptitude to learn with a high school education, within a year and a half to two years, you can become a front-line supervisor. That job will pay $125,000 to $130,000 a year,” Brown told Cramer. “What we’re doing here, we’re replicating across the nation.” "
And there were numerous other jobs - many administrative - in places like Texas and thru out the world. Of course some may have ethical concerns working for big oil but hey, it's a job.
The hiring of 11,000 is nothing. Bank of America announced they may be laying off 40,000 employees. There are over 20 million people unemployed. Your figure of 11,000 is nothing compared to those who want employment especially when companies continue to layoff like Bank of American.
The hiring of 11,000 is nothing. Bank of America announced they may be laying off 40,000 employees. There are over 20 million people unemployed. Your figure of 11,000 is nothing compared to those who want employment especially when companies continue to layoff like Bank of American.
I'm wondering about the post office - the rumor is 120K to be layed off? Those are good paying jobs with benefits.
http://juanitajean.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/republicansout1.jpg
Peace
rosarugosa
9-10-11, 5:47pm
I think I've gotten less judgmental as I've gotten older, so I should be able to join in on this thread without pissing anyone off too much. I think unemployment is such a tough one because there are so many gaming the system, as with SSDI. So the more fundamental problem is that these systems are so easy to game. The "watchdogs" are not doing a very good job of minding the store, which unfortunately is so often the case with government programs. So those who work hard for a living are understandably reluctant to hand over more money to be poorly managed. And folks who are trying desperately to find work such as Poetry Writer and Lady in Black have to put up with others questioning their efforts, work ethics and good intentions, adding insult to injury when they are already in a tough place.
I work in HR, and in the past 3 years, I've received about 8 inquiries from unemployment boards trying to verify that someone did indeed apply for a job. Prior to that, I had never seen even one such inquiry (in about 8 years). I work for a big company, and we have thousands and thousands of applicants, so this tells me that the u/i boards are not taking meaningful steps to ensure that those receiving benefits are looking for work. So I think that the first point of failure is one of enforcement/policing to be sure nobody is taking advantage of the system.
I think the u/i boards also need to have USEFUL programs to really help people find jobs, not just the occasional token seminar. Effective job seeking takes its own special skill set, kind of sales/entrepreneurial skills, that many people do not have. I've known a few people who were confronted with unemployment for the first time ever in their fifties, and were utterly confounded as to how to launch an effective job search. So meaningful job placement assistance is a critical component. What I hear from Poetry Writer and Lady in Black is that they need funds in order to survive, but what they WANT are jobs. That solves the problem. And I am not comfortable glibly telling folks to move to find work, and to leave their friends, family, homes and other support systems. Nor do I think we want office workers in their fifties with health problems toiling in the fields! But perhaps there could be a multi-tiered approach where the final tier, once a person and his/her individual caseworker conclude that all reasonable avenues have been exhausted (and only then), is that the agency provides relocation assistance to help someone get established in North Dakota or wherever.
The hiring of 11,000 is nothing. Bank of America announced they may be laying off 40,000 employees. There are over 20 million people unemployed. Your figure of 11,000 is nothing compared to those who want employment especially when companies continue to layoff like Bank of American.
It was just one example that some companies are hirering. No more than that.
I think I've gotten less judgmental as I've gotten older, so I should be able to join in on this thread without pissing anyone off too much. I think unemployment is such a tough one because there are so many gaming the system, as with SSDI. So the more fundamental problem is that these systems are so easy to game. The "watchdogs" are not doing a very good job of minding the store, which unfortunately is so often the case with government programs. So those who work hard for a living are understandably reluctant to hand over more money to be poorly managed. And folks who are trying desperately to find work such as Poetry Writer and Lady in Black have to put up with others questioning their efforts, work ethics and good intentions, adding insult to injury when they are already in a tough place.
I work in HR, and in the past 3 years, I've received about 8 inquiries from unemployment boards trying to verify that someone did indeed apply for a job. Prior to that, I had never seen even one such inquiry (in about 8 years). I work for a big company, and we have thousands and thousands of applicants, so this tells me that the u/i boards are not taking meaningful steps to ensure that those receiving benefits are looking for work. So I think that the first point of failure is one of enforcement/policing to be sure nobody is taking advantage of the system.
I think the u/i boards also need to have USEFUL programs to really help people find jobs, not just the occasional token seminar. Effective job seeking takes its own special skill set, kind of sales/entrepreneurial skills, that many people do not have. I've known a few people who were confronted with unemployment for the first time ever in their fifties, and were utterly confounded as to how to launch an effective job search. So meaningful job placement assistance is a critical component. What I hear from Poetry Writer and Lady in Black is that they need funds in order to survive, but what they WANT are jobs. That solves the problem. And I am not comfortable glibly telling folks to move to find work, and to leave their friends, family, homes and other support systems. Nor do I think we want office workers in their fifties with health problems toiling in the fields! But perhaps there could be a multi-tiered approach where the final tier, once a person and his/her individual caseworker conclude that all reasonable avenues have been exhausted (and only then), is that the agency provides relocation assistance to help someone get established in North Dakota or wherever.
I wasn't trying to be judgemental, just practical. And I wasn't questioning Poetry Writer or Lin B's efforts - I greatly admire anyone who can keep on going in this economy. I was trying to say that we are in a new reality and they, and other's who are unemployed and waiting for better jobs or the housing market to pick up or some govenment work-program they qualify for, better brace themselves. I see the high unemployment and how hard it is to get a good job. I think it's wonderful that unemployeed people are given 99 weeks - almost 2 years - of unemployment benefits as well as 15 months of subsidized COBRA benefits (expired now I believe). I think every person should take full advantage of those 2 years to look for a better, higher paying, professional job rather than accept a low wage, menial labor. BUT, I personally don't think jobs will come back - at least not the kind of jobs we had before the bust - and as Freein05 points out - the job losses continue. So I think that people who have reached the end of their unemployment need to realize they may NEVER be able to find a similair job to their old one again and start looking for alternatives to both jobs and lifestyles rather than hoping the the gov will continue to fund even longer term unemployment. I mean, how long do we fund unemployment? Another 2 years? 10 years? ad finitium? If jobs aren't coming back anbd we continue to fund unemployment then it basicly becomes welfare - a type of welfare that pays more than a minimum wage job and will prevent people from actively seeking low wage jobs while they are getting it. What we need is some job creation - government job creation if nothing else - and to be hinest I just don't see that happening on the scale that it is needed.
poetry_writer
9-10-11, 6:31pm
P_W - think about this - the unemployment will not last forever so I think the idea is to be able to sustain yourself as you try and transition to somethings that will work for you. I think it would be a perfect time to explore things that you never had the opportunity to do as a steady worker. I know that is what I have done since retirement and it has led me to some really different ideas about things since leaving the high-tech corporate world. So much so that those days are really just a distant memory. The thing I most worry about for you is that sometimes it is easy to get stuck in a rut for long periods which can lead to depression, etc.
Peace
I am so appreciative of your worry over my possible depression;). I am feeling rather fine however. Tell me, does all that weed help with your current situation? Its illegal of course. Just curious.
poetry_writer
9-10-11, 6:36pm
I think I've gotten less judgmental as I've gotten older, so I should be able to join in on this thread without pissing anyone off too much. I think unemployment is such a tough one because there are so many gaming the system, as with SSDI. So the more fundamental problem is that these systems are so easy to game. The "watchdogs" are not doing a very good job of minding the store, which unfortunately is so often the case with government programs. So those who work hard for a living are understandably reluctant to hand over more money to be poorly managed. And folks who are trying desperately to find work such as Poetry Writer and Lady in Black have to put up with others questioning their efforts, work ethics and good intentions, adding insult to injury when they are already in a tough place.
I work in HR, and in the past 3 years, I've received about 8 inquiries from unemployment boards trying to verify that someone did indeed apply for a job. Prior to that, I had never seen even one such inquiry (in about 8 years). I work for a big company, and we have thousands and thousands of applicants, so this tells me that the u/i boards are not taking meaningful steps to ensure that those receiving benefits are looking for work. So I think that the first point of failure is one of enforcement/policing to be sure nobody is taking advantage of the system.
I think the u/i boards also need to have USEFUL programs to really help people find jobs, not just the occasional token seminar. Effective job seeking takes its own special skill set, kind of sales/entrepreneurial skills, that many people do not have. I've known a few people who were confronted with unemployment for the first time ever in their fifties, and were utterly confounded as to how to launch an effective job search. So meaningful job placement assistance is a critical component. What I hear from Poetry Writer and Lady in Black is that they need funds in order to survive, but what they WANT are jobs. That solves the problem. And I am not comfortable glibly telling folks to move to find work, and to leave their friends, family, homes and other support systems. Nor do I think we want office workers in their fifties with health problems toiling in the fields! But perhaps there could be a multi-tiered approach where the final tier, once a person and his/her individual caseworker conclude that all reasonable avenues have been exhausted (and only then), is that the agency provides relocation assistance to help someone get established in North Dakota or wherever.
Exactly. I would gladly take a low paying job (in fact my last job was low paying...$8 an hour) Because I'm frugal I could live on it. Thankful my folks raised me that way. And many like me have applied for hundreds of jobs. So goes life!
poetry_writer
9-10-11, 6:40pm
I wasn't trying to be judgemental, just practical. And I wasn't questioning Poetry Writer or Lin B's efforts - I greatly admire anyone who can keep on going in this economy. I was trying to say that we are in a new reality and they, and other's who are unemployed and waiting for better jobs or the housing market to pick up or some govenment work-program they qualify for, better brace themselves. I see the high unemployment and how hard it is to get a good job. I think it's wonderful that unemployeed people are given 99 weeks - almost 2 years - of unemployment benefits as well as 15 months of subsidized COBRA benefits (expired now I believe). I think every person should take full advantage of those 2 years to look for a better, higher paying, professional job rather than accept a low wage, menial labor. BUT, I personally don't think jobs will come back - at least not the kind of jobs we had before the bust - and as Freein05 points out - the job losses continue. So I think that people who have reached the end of their unemployment need to realize they may NEVER be able to find a similair job to their old one again and start looking for alternatives to both jobs and lifestyles rather than hoping the the gov will continue to fund even longer term unemployment. I mean, how long do we fund unemployment? Another 2 years? 10 years? ad finitium? If jobs aren't coming back anbd we continue to fund unemployment then it basicly becomes welfare - a type of welfare that pays more than a minimum wage job and will prevent people from actively seeking low wage jobs while they are getting it. What we need is some job creation - government job creation if nothing else - and to be hinest I just don't see that happening on the scale that it is needed.
My last job was $8 an hour. I cant go much lower lol. The one before that was $9. No one would take a job that pays lower than their unemployment (in my opinion). If someone doesnt like that, tough luck. I still have to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head.
ApatheticNoMore
9-10-11, 7:08pm
Did Obama actually propose a work sharing plan? Now that might actually get people back in the workforce. Not enough work for everyone - then share the work!
I am so appreciative of your worry over my possible depression;). I am feeling rather fine however. Tell me, does all that weed help with your current situation? Its illegal of course. Just curious.
Depends on what you mean by my current situation? Not sure what you mean by that. "All that weed" is not something that I can relate too. I'm 60 years old and it doesn't really take a lot to excite me these days. I have formulated a good life by hiking everyday for about 2 hours, I try to do something productive around my place every day, and I have been able to fill every day so far. I also deliver for Meals on Wheels 3 times a week and I think that I gain much more from that than I give in terms of expense. I just love to talk to people, and most of the people I meet feel the same way.
As far as weed specifically, I consider it a mandatory part of retirement. I didn't smoke for most of my work life except for the early 70's. I've said this before but given the opportunity I'll say it forever. Weed is nothing more that a mind altering drug that seems to enhance my life. It makes me more social, it enhances my appetite (sometimes not good), and it makes me mellow out from what I think is my naturally aggressive attitude. It really does make you mellow out and not worry so much. However in this state I do not recommend that it be a social type of experience. There are lots of good people in Texas but there are also a lot of people that blame all of the negative things in life on drugs (including weed) and so I would recommend that if you do indeed indulge that you keep it private. That is much easier as you get older but it is an absolute necessity in Texas, unless you live in an urban environment where the rumor mill is not that active.
My Mom is 81 and is having a lot of issues lately - I really do wish that I could get her to smoke a little sometimes to help her forget her natural aging processes but she would never ever change her mind about that. I think that is more because of a social stigma that any actual real life issues she has ever had to deal with.
Here are my recommendations - never think about buying weed in Texas from anyone that you do not really trust, never ever talk about your buzz locally, and never ever forget that there are people that are against you indulging even if they don't know you from the man in the moon.People do not like people that are not like themselves and in Texas that might mean that you need to wear a cowboy outfit occasionally!! :cool: Or maybe listen to Rush Limbaugh on your radio when meet your neighbors.
Peace
ApatheticNoMore
9-10-11, 7:53pm
Good for anyone who doesn't get depressed when unemployed. I was pretty deep in a very strange and desolate emotional place in just several months of unemployment. I hope not to go back there again anytime soon (at least give me a brief break, great wheel of fate ;)). Moving was certainly not my first plan of action but I was somewhat resigned to if it became necessary.
Halliburton is a whole thing of it's own. Involved in several oil spills (including the gulf), recipient of massive amounts of federal government dough (it really IS a Government Jobs Program!), Halliburton of the no-bid government contract. It spun off it's most evil divisions to KBR: mercenary work, human trafficking, secret military bases, building strange internment camps enough to give real rational evidence based arguments to any conspiracy theorist:
market watch on the internment camps:
http://tinyurl.com/lhzd8t
Yea, there are companies I would not work for, call that what you want and do or don't pay unemployment, but for me it is moral principle, no less, no more.
The job sharing program of Obamas though, really most interesting thing yet proposed.
Job sharing is an interesting concept but I wonder how insurance would work into that. Unfortunately health insurance is STILL tied to our jobs and part time workers usually don't get it.
If the job sharing could come with some sort of health insurance, it might be a thing.
there was an article several months ago about McD's hiring, and apparently there were something like X jobs and 10X applicants. Everyone capable of the work, everyone desiring the work, everyone willing to work. but only X got hired. Therefore 10X-X were still unemployed. Were they lazy people who sat on hammocks? were they people who felt that the work was beneath them? Were they unwilling? untrained? incapable?
---
but aside from that, as an employer, I do have issues. Admittedly, I'm not employing in the US, btw. Nevertheless, here goes.
I put out flyers for the position. it does require special training -- massage therapist training -- but you can get the course over a weekend for $250. that's the minimum standard here. There's no licensing. I get a few people applying. I talk to them about the job. I'm really not asking for much. I'll pay minimum wage for 5 hrs of work per week, wherein you come in and do reception. There's not much reception to do, so you are free to read a book, chat with coworkers, etc. If a person walks in and wants a massage -- and no one else is available -- you give the massage at the normal rate ($85). I then get 60% of that, and you get 40% ($34) in addition to your hourly ($12). Thus, you have the potential to make $46 per hour. AND, if you rebook the client, you can choose to A. ptu them during your normal hours OR put them in another available hour outside of your working hours, wherein you pay $25 for the room rental, and retain the remainder ($60).
Our goal with these workers is actually to have them rotate through -- they build a client base and eventually will rent a day from us ($100-ish) wherein they can see 5-7 clients (after discounts to clients, say $70 per massage -- for a total of $490 income per day, less their $100 rent). Then, we'd hire someone else who wants to do the reception/etc.
I interview people. I explain the process. I show them the contract. We go over the details. My lawyer writes out anything specific in our agreement (added expense) if it's a unique situation. I hire the person.
They come in and get trained. I take about two weeks to train a person. So they work (and get paid) for two days.
They quit.
I do have an issue of having a lot of practitioners with open hours, but walk ins come in when these folks are booked. I try to book walk ins for the open hours the next day, but typically they want the massage "right then" and will go to our competitors. So, because I couldn't get anyone to rent outright, I decided to hire people and do this process of employment.
But NO ONE seems to want to stick with the job. Mostly, i'm dealing with "young people." BY that I mean the under 25s. I haven't had a lot of practitioners older than that coming in, and the one or two whom I have always end up being "too busy looking for work" to WORK.
The other issue that I have is everyone freakin' going on holiday. it's a big thing here, and culturally, I get it. but, the problem that i have is that people come in, start work, tell me they want to do it, blah blah blah excitement excitement! I train them (and pay them), and then i get "oh, yeah, I have money saved up now, thanks for the two weeks! I'm going to WOOFF in Vietnam!"
It's *annoying as crap!*
And it's not like we want or need a receptionist, we don't. BUT, i do need massage therapists who want to work, who aren't going to skip out in a month, two months, three weeks, or whatever.
Unfortunately, I can't seem to find them.
ApatheticNoMore
9-11-11, 1:36pm
Wow you just made me wish I was Australian for awhile. Oh yea as an employer those people are total flakes. But to live somewhere where people don't live for work from the moment they graduate high school or college to the moment they retire, would be a nice change (very high stress culture here of course). Of course everything is different in the U.S., oh I'm not sure the lowest possible paid jobs always attract the highest quality people even here. :laff: But the culture is different. And in order to give massages for income (in California) you need 250 hours of training here, soon to be 500.
A weekend doesn't seem long enough to learn *anything* much about massage and at the other extreme of course 500 is absurd overkill. We're really really big on barriers to entry around here though. It sometimes seems half the careers are using it as their strategy to boost wages (best for those things that aren't outsourcable I guess). And writing into laws that jobs that were previously done by people with less credentials must only be done by people with much more credentials now (massage therapy hasn't done this particular one, it's only boosting hours). People may have their beefs with unions but it was very clear where they stood and what for and they often did represent the common man. People don't even realize the law has been changed in 100 ways by every profession under the sun to try to ensure high wages, because that and not unionisim is how you attempt to grab high wages these days (though it does seem rather zero sum for working folks as a whole). That's professions that can't be outsourced or H1B-ed, at outsourcable and H1B professions wages will always face downward pressures, no matter how skilled the labor.
frugalone
9-11-11, 11:44pm
[QUOTE=Zoebird;42217]there was an article several months ago about McD's hiring, and apparently there were something like X jobs and 10X applicants. Everyone capable of the work, everyone desiring the work, everyone willing to work. but only X got hired. Therefore 10X-X were still unemployed. Were they lazy people who sat on hammocks? were they people who felt that the work was beneath them? Were they unwilling? untrained? incapable?
/QUOTE]
In the summer I applied for a receptionist/office manager job and was told I was one of 200 applicants! My friend, who happens to work at the firm that was hiring, said they were getting resumes from every Tom, Dick and Mary--people who were just desperate and did not have the qualifications. While I was qualified, I'm afraid they knew I was overqualified--they came right out and asked the old "wouldn't you leave..." To which I replied, "If our employment situation was mutually beneficial, I would be very happy to stay with the job." Two weeks later, I got a very nice rejection letter. Very nice, but nonetheless...
I also get very annoyed with the way people treat me. For e.g., one of the temp agencies I went to told me I had skills better than those required for the jobs they have available, and sent me to a recruiter. He asked me to e-mail him my resume. He's never even acknowledged that he received it--and I DID follow up. Very frustrating.
As far as retraining goes, I'd be retraining for my third career. And what, exactly, do I retrain as? Who pays for it? The medical field is always open, but the sight of blood makes me sick to my stomach. I have no talent/skill for the sciences. I'm a liberal arts gal, through and through.
And everywhere I go for help/answers, I get the same advice. In circles I go...
Here's what Unemployment Benefits did for my family, to the taxpayers' advantage - it allowed my husband to hang on just long enough that 1.5 yr later a job finally materialized that was not only at his previous salary, but 20% higher. And so -- we've resumed paying taxes at an even higher rate than before.
DH didn't have any other offers to turn down before this blessing from above -- but we often discussed, what if he got an offer at 60% of his previous salary - should he do it? We were trying to establish a cut off point -- but as the months went on and on and on -- we were like, holy macaroni, how much more can we take -- DH's internal purchase price kept decreasing and decreasing. It didn't matter though because he didn't have any buyers.
Could he have found in-between work without the UI benefits (pizza delivery, etc)- maybe. But it would have eaten into his job search/networking/ being stay-at-home dad while I worked time.
It did involve us moving to an area of the country that we never, ever would have imagined living though. Thankfully we are getting used to it and it is very nice.
Plus UI is an earned benefit - you and/or your employer pay into the program which is then supplemented with federal funds (I guess that's the taxpayer part). At some point, it does seem like the math wouldn't hold up. So if taxpayers are paying for folks' unemployment after xx weeks , why not create jobs for them at that point or sooner?
[QUOTE=Zoebird;42217]there was an article several months ago about McD's hiring, and apparently there were something like X jobs and 10X applicants. Everyone capable of the work, everyone desiring the work, everyone willing to work. but only X got hired. Therefore 10X-X were still unemployed. Were they lazy people who sat on hammocks? were they people who felt that the work was beneath them? Were they unwilling? untrained? incapable?
/QUOTE]
In the summer I applied for a receptionist/office manager job and was told I was one of 200 applicants! My friend, who happens to work at the firm that was hiring, said they were getting resumes from every Tom, Dick and Mary--people who were just desperate and did not have the qualifications. While I was qualified, I'm afraid they knew I was overqualified--they came right out and asked the old "wouldn't you leave..." To which I replied, "If our employment situation was mutually beneficial, I would be very happy to stay with the job." Two weeks later, I got a very nice rejection letter. Very nice, but nonetheless...
I also get very annoyed with the way people treat me. For e.g., one of the temp agencies I went to told me I had skills better than those required for the jobs they have available, and sent me to a recruiter. He asked me to e-mail him my resume. He's never even acknowledged that he received it--and I DID follow up. Very frustrating.
As far as retraining goes, I'd be retraining for my third career. And what, exactly, do I retrain as? Who pays for it? The medical field is always open, but the sight of blood makes me sick to my stomach. I have no talent/skill for the sciences. I'm a liberal arts gal, through and through.
And everywhere I go for help/answers, I get the same advice. In circles I go...
Can you type? One type of job I heard of recently is a medical coder. You do need training but it's pretty short, from what I understand, and you do this work from home. Just a thought.
mtnlaurel
9-12-11, 10:31am
Here's another thing that caught my eye in the past month - Arise Virtual Solutions, www.arise.com - I saw company founder interviewed on something like Charlie Rose or some other newsy show
I didn't thoroughly scour the site - but it looks like you put in the time for your training on your equipment and then once you are up and running you can make 10-13 an hour and with a flex schedule from home (Save $ on the baloney a job requires - dress, transpo, $ to buy chocolates' that Mary Jane's son is selling for band, etc.)
I would be surprised if it came with benefits though - I don't know, I didn't check out that page.
flowerseverywhere
9-12-11, 1:36pm
well I give Poetry writer and Lady in black congratulations for sticking in there despite the attacks on them. We have several friends that have tried everything to get a job, and I don't think they are lying or scamming anyone. They don't spend their days watching TV, lying on the couch eating chips and smoking cigarettes and complaining, they follow up leads and are aggressive in their networking and application. It is just really hard to get hired if you are old, a female of pregnancy age, overqualified, underqualified etc. Like what people have said here, for every job there are numerous applicants. One of my college educated family members who was out of work for six months and spending most of her days trying to get a job got two interviews, and she was astonished she got one of the 8 jobs (paying in the low 30's) as the applicant pool was over 400. I still don't know what you would do if you were underwater on a mortgage despite doing everything right (20% down, getting a traditional mortgage for instance) and decided to pack up and move to a new area. I would not rent a house out if I was not in the town. It is hard enough if you are in town.
someone also mentioned a work at home medical coder. I know when I looked into medical coding and transcription due to extensive work in the medical field to see if I could work at home, they would not even look at you if you did not have several years experience under your belt. I have a hard time believing that things have changed that much in the past five years, but they could have. I think a lot of those work at home ads are scams trying to get you to take classes but I could be wrong of course. Taking a class at an established institution isn't even a sure thing today so if you go down that route make sure it is a legitimate path. If it were that easy to take a few classes and work at home for more than minimum wage I would think people would be swarming the company with applications and resumes as the unemployment and job assistance offices would be pointing people in that direction.
flowerseverywhere
9-12-11, 3:17pm
just found this article and I thought it was very interesting
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/business/in-detroit-two-wage-levels-are-the-new-way-of-work.html
"The demand for $14-an-hour manufacturing jobs is providing Detroit’s Big Three automakers with a ready pool of eager new employees. Last year, Chrysler was flooded with inquiries about the jobs here, and it froze the list after receiving 10,000 applications. "
poetry_writer
9-12-11, 3:33pm
well I give Poetry writer and Lady in black congratulations for sticking in there despite the attacks on them. We have several friends that have tried everything to get a job, and I don't think they are lying or scamming anyone. They don't spend their days watching TV, lying on the couch eating chips and smoking cigarettes and complaining, they follow up leads and are aggressive in their networking and application. It is just really hard to get hired if you are old, a female of pregnancy age, overqualified, underqualified etc. Like what people have said here, for every job there are numerous applicants. One of my college educated family members who was out of work for six months and spending most of her days trying to get a job got two interviews, and she was astonished she got one of the 8 jobs (paying in the low 30's) as the applicant pool was over 400. I still don't know what you would do if you were underwater on a mortgage despite doing everything right (20% down, getting a traditional mortgage for instance) and decided to pack up and move to a new area. I would not rent a house out if I was not in the town. It is hard enough if you are in town.
someone also mentioned a work at home medical coder. I know when I looked into medical coding and transcription due to extensive work in the medical field to see if I could work at home, they would not even look at you if you did not have several years experience under your belt. I have a hard time believing that things have changed that much in the past five years, but they could have. I think a lot of those work at home ads are scams trying to get you to take classes but I could be wrong of course. Taking a class at an established institution isn't even a sure thing today so if you go down that route make sure it is a legitimate path. If it were that easy to take a few classes and work at home for more than minimum wage I would think people would be swarming the company with applications and resumes as the unemployment and job assistance offices would be pointing people in that direction.
You are exactly right. Most of the "work at home" jobs are scams. There are some legit ones, but they always want someone already experienced in the field. I know, because I have applied. I have had unemployed friends take dental assistant classes and same issue.....dentists only want experienced assistants. Taking classes is pointless unless there are actual openings in a particular field. I bring home approximately $150 a week in unemployment. That doesnt even cover the basics. I would take any job that brought me more than that. There simply are none. I continue looking.
I totally agree the work from home stuff seems like a scam.
This wasn't the exact show that I saw info on Arise, but here's a link to the CEO Angela Seldon on Dylan Ratigan show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GhsT41TlLY
One of my super pet peeves is offshore customer service - I guess 'cuz I've always been in hospitality, guest services, sales or marketing.
Halliburton is a whole thing of it's own. Involved in several oil spills (including the gulf), recipient of massive amounts of federal government dough (it really IS a Government Jobs Program!), Halliburton of the no-bid government contract. It spun off it's most evil divisions to KBR: mercenary work, human trafficking, secret military bases, building strange internment camps enough to give real rational evidence based arguments to any conspiracy theorist:
market watch on the internment camps:
http://tinyurl.com/lhzd8t
Yea, there are companies I would not work for, call that what you want and do or don't pay unemployment, but for me it is moral principle, no less, no more.
Yeah I can understand why people would have moral principles against working for a variety of companies or in certain fields. But where a big employer like Halliburton goes, other jobs follow. If Halliburton is hiring 11,000 in a small town in N. Dakota, and probably already has several thousand employees there, then every shop, restaurant, gas station, real estate agency, hospital, office block, city and county and every other place near by will need more employees. Maybe thousands more. So while Halliburton may be a company some people wouldn't work for, there will probably be thousands of other socially and environmentally friendly jobs near by.
ApatheticNoMore
9-16-11, 3:01am
Thinking about the subject lately for reasons of my own. It seems to me the whole computer revolution is often overlooked as a cause of the horrible economic situation (horrible in real terms - not enough JOBS!). People blame all the immediate financial issues: ridiculous bubbles especially in housing, too much bank debt (especially if they marked their assets to market), too much personal debt, too much government debt, etc. etc.. That fine as far as an immediate cause goes, it's all true.
People try to dig deeper and blame more long term things, running out of natural resources, peak oil etc. It's true we're "spending down savings" in terms of natural resources, living on non-renewables that will cease to exist sooner or later (specifically we are doing so for oil and water and other things that don't mix). Oil as a hard current limit on economic growth is a compelling theory, I just dont' know that the economy is even growing enough to test that limit.
But the whole PC revolution (now laptops but you know what I mean), cheap servers that can run everything, dot coms, dot bombs, how many jobs really were automated out of existence? Of course if so this should have led to more leisure time for all, instead those employed are often overworked, meanwhile growing masses of unemployed (masked from time to time by bubble jobs). A serious NET DECREASE in the human happiness ledger. Not knowing where one's income is coming from is not a pleasant experience (sure short term it can be, but longer term ....no, it is a horrible feeling). Ha, IT people who make all that automation possible through their labor, don't even enjoy the fruits of their labor!!! It's kinda like auto workers who don't even earn enough to buy the cars they produce. Tech workers dont' earn enough leisure time to get back the net social leisure time they produce! In fact they are often made to work ridiculous hours. But perhaps the net leisure time produced does make one more unemployed person miserable .....
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