View Full Version : NO Pills?!
Partly because of my dislike of the drug companies tactics, partly because of the side effects, partly due to the frugal side of me, etc. I don't want to take any meds.
Okay, the most I have taken is two medications at one time (except following surgery) - but I don't want to take anything. :)
I am down to my blood pressure medicine and with my weight drop and exercising I hope to be off it soon.
Anyone out there that takes NO meds? No vitamins? Not interested in what you are taking, just perhaps your feelings on the matter. My friend works at the local Costco pharmacy and he says they fill 2,000-3,000 prescriptions A DAY!!! That just boggled my mind! How much of that could be controlled with proper diet & exercise?
Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-meds - I just want to live in such a way I can minimize how many I take.
treehugger
11-11-11, 7:37pm
I feel much the same way that you do. I will take meds when needed, short term (post-surgery, for instance), and I do take some vitamins. But I don't currently take any prescriptions.
I am one of those who "should" be on prescription high cholesterol meds, but I refuse. Luckily, I have a doctor who is fine with that, as long as I keep up with the diet and exercise and vitamin recommendations.
DH, on the other hand, takes 2 prescription medications daily that are keeping him alive.
I guess we balance each other. :)
Kara
My doctor was beside himself when I went for my 50th year checkup last year, and I said I didn't take any medication on an ongoing basis. Even ibuprofen is rather seldom. In the fall, there's otc medication for allergies. I do take supplements though, since I don't always eat organic or homegrown produce and I can't be much out in the sun.
Its not that I'm against medication per se, I just would rather try lifestyle changes first for chronic conditions. for acute conditions, sure I'll take a pill. I exercise almost every day, and I think that helps a great deal with all else. I also do meditation and yoga when I'm under high stress to mitigate it before it manifests in disease. And I come from really hearty stock.
I take medicine when the benefit seems to me to outweigh the risks. It seems to me that prescription durgs often or usually do extra things in addition to what we take them for, and often do harm. so I try to limit them.
You can search this yourself, but taking a particular amount of Hershey's cocoa powder a day can lower your blood pressure. My mom didn't believe me and she was doing it for awhile; she's a chocoholic and she loved it. She's stopped since and still takes her bp meds.
I take medicine when the benefit seems to me to outweigh the risks. It seems to me that prescription durgs often or usually do extra things in addition to what we take them for, and often do harm. so I try to limit them.
Actually I think that it's the non-prescription drugs that cause more problems. The sleep aid that also "helps" with your allergies, your allergy pill that will help with runny nose, sneezing, and coughing... Most prescription drugs are targeted for a particular use. The non-prescription drugs are advertised to alleviate symptoms, and often have multiple drugs in them and multiple side effects.
That being said, I'll be on thyroid replacement hormones for the rest of my life. Some drugs you do need all the time. As for the non-prescription stuff, I take them only as needed (or my primary tells me) and I take only single-drug pills to control side effects.
I don't take any medications, and I make it clear to any doctor I visit that I use them only when absolutely necessary. I've finally found a primary care provider who doesn't reach for the prescription pad as a first solution to every ill.
I don;t take ANY thing at all.even after my operation just about 2 years ago was only on limited meds.when ever I have to see a DR the first thing they ask ,What kind of meds do you take and I say nothing they just look at me some even said i mean for high blood pressure ,High cholesterol,what do you take and how much so i go again I take nothing,some day i will take a picture of their faces lol.
For a brief period, I had a doctor that was okay with me trying home remedies first, bless his little educated heart. Unfortunately, he left to practice at the VA clinic, so I am on a doctor search again.
I try to find alternatives to prescription medications, but I know when to throw in the towel and get drugs. (This is scary territory, but Greg44, have you researched the organic apple cider vinegar for BP? I thought it was a bunch of hooey, but it helped lower my BP. YMMV)
I'd be careful of making rash decisions on this issue.
A couple of years ago, I stopped taking my blood pressure and cholesterol meds because I was pretty sure I could control both through diet and exercise. I checked my BP on a regular basis and was always pleased to see that it was staying within acceptable range. I didn't have a good way to check cholesterol, but figured that as long as the BP was staying down, the cholesterol was probably under control as well.
Last Saturday I felt pressure in my chest for about 10 minutes right after getting out of bed. I felt it again in the afternoon for a few minutes and then a third time the next morning. Decided to run off to the family doc on Monday to make sure this wasn't important and was able to get a 4:45pm appt. By 5:15pm I was being wheeled next door to the hospital ER because a quick EKG showed that I may be having a heart attack. Another EKG at the ER confirmed the results and I was admitted overnight for monitoring and a next morning evaluation by a cardiac doc.
Cardiac doc decided I most likely had a blockage somewhere and scheduled an afternoon cardiac catheter procedure, which confirmed an almost complete blockage of the left anterior decending artery. They took the catheter out of my wrist, went in again through the thigh and placed a stent in the blockage, correcting the problem. I was home the next day with nothing more than a couple of pretty impressive bruises at the entry points, although I now had the sobering knowledge that I could have died without prompt intervention, all because I thought it would be OK to go off my meds and control conditions myself.
Now, I'll be on Plavix and Crestor for at least a year and probably back on cholestoral meds for the rest of my life. I'll stay on my meds from now on, regardless of what I think I might be capable of on my own.
I also dislike drug companies intensely. It doesn't help that the area where I live might as well be called Merck-ville. Their plant and administrative offices cover acres not far from where I live.
I'm also trying to get off all meds. Currently I take only a BP capsule twice a day and a low dose of antidepressant. I'm supposed to be on Lipitor, but I quit taking it about two months ago and that has restored a lot of hand strength and nearly wiped out what I thought was tendonitis. My doctor wanted me to go back on it after two weeks of taking CoQ10, but my cholestrol had been down around 140 for a long time and that scared me. It was 177 when she put me on Lipitor, I think because the HDL/LDL was somewhat off. She's very enthusiastic about Lipitor and it's making me uneasy about continuing to see her. I've read that people on high doses are far more prone to diabetes in addition to the muscle loss that seems all too common, and diabetes terrifies me. My father was apparently pre-diabetic for a number of years and ended up with both legs amputated a few years before he died.
Also, I recently got quite sick from over-the-counter Allegra, even though I'd been taking the prescription generic for years and never had a problem with it.
I do take some supplements and find that some are very helpful, such as tart cherry extract for joint pain and stiffness. My doctor wants me to take a high dose of calcium every day (due to osteoporosis in one hip) and I've continued with that.
Drug side effects have been a problem all of my life, and I'm quite cynical about pharmaceutical companies. My first husband worked for what used to be Smith, Kline & French, now known as Glaxo, and he had quite a few interesting stories to tell.
Good heavens Alan! How scary! Glad everything is ok now. Yes, modern medicine is wonderful stuff. Sure we could all live natural lives like the cave men, and then die at 50.
I don't take anything but vitamins, but I sure would if I needed. My daughter also takes thyroid replacement. She has no thyroid at all and will need this all her life, which has the chance of being a long healthy one thanks to modern medicine. And both my sisters are able to function with daily migraine meds.
But I do agree that some people over do it with supplements.
Alan, yikes. Sooo glad you're ok. Your post echoes my thinking about a dear friend who has had a chronic illness with which she was diagnosed at 22. She takes many meds & supplements every day, allowing her to live a full life. She progressed from being bedridden with an hour or two a day of being able to be up to now working full time, skiing, hiking, etc. That progress took 20 years of diligent medical care. She monitors her regime with great intensity, as you can imagine.
The are many people with chronic conditions who are deeply grateful for the meds they take. My 18 year old stepson was diagnosed this summer with a genetic disorder, Ankylosing Spondylitis, which is the result of a recessive gene inherited through his mom. In order to prevent fusion of his spine and hips, he needs to be on massive anti-inflammatory meds. He is learning his limits and how to manage his lifestyle so that his mobility and pain can be reduced. It's pretty big thing for a young man to be facing. I imagine he'd prefer to not have to take pills daily, but unfortunately, it's his reality.
I have osteoarthritis, and am managing it with some movement, some supplements, some meds. Losing weight is the hardest part for me, as the pain makes it hard to feel motivated to exercise. I'm about to start swimming again. I am a sloth by nature, so I have little intrinsic motivation to exercise, have never liked it.
When I lived rurally, I was in constant motion, and worked outdoors 14 hours a day. Part of the damage to my knees was this work. Of course, the med that reduces the pain and inflammation in my knees most is cannabis. I use it in edible form, because of course smoke is rather bad for my lungs! Perhaps some day this will be legal. In the meantime, I am happy to live in a city that doesn't count personal use as an issue, and to have more than one family member who grows it. Free, effective, herbal meds!
If one can maintain health without meds, that's awesome. For those who need them, I hope we can get to a single payer system so that all can get the health care they need. There is no shame in needing health care & medical interventions.
I don't take any prescription medications, and don't foresee ever taking them on an ongoing basis--unless I'm somehow rendered helpless and they're forced on me as they so often are forced on the elderly. I'm convinced most of what's foisted on the public is either useless or dangerous. I'll take the occasional aspirin or ibuprofen, and some supplements.
ApatheticNoMore
11-12-11, 2:45am
Not on prescription meds. In my mid 30's. Drugs always make me sick, even BC did to a degree as do antibiotics, but I take them when I have an infection. I take ibuprofin for monthly pain. I don't take vitamins (should I? I don't know. Vitamins were not only a pain to take and expensive but they were really really harsh on my body and mind (guess I'm sensitive), although of course nowhere near so bad as many prescriptions).
zero meds and zero vitamins.
i eat well, sleep well, exercise, and so on and so forth. my "heros" are other women who are over 40, over 50, over 60 and on up over 90 who do not take any meds. the lady who is over 90 - my GMIL - only takes a multi vitamin because the assisted living facility insists upon it. It's one of those soft, chewy ones. She thinks it's candy at the end of her dinner. She's so cute (she has dementia, but is otherwise very healthy, and overall very happy. she walks, gardens, and plays with balloons most days.).
it is, btw, totally possible. another client of mine is 87, and on no medications, still works, lives with her granddaughter and great grand kids (dad not in the picture, apparently). she rides her bike to and from work. she keeps a mean veggie garden. :)
oh, and if you are going off certain meds, good idea to get quarterly or bi-annual blood draws to make sure tht your blood levels are staying where you want them to be. because it's possible to use diet/exercise to lower cholesterol etc (read Weston A Price and/or anything paleolithic like Cordain, Sisson, etc -- LOTS of science behind this nutrition), but you should be checking to make sure that it is working.
and alan, i'm glad you got the medical care that you needed, and the medicines that you needed as well, even if you had had your blood checked, your results still may have been the same. so it's not a blaming thing, that first part, just a "if you're going to go off the meds, get more blood draws" advice. :)
we get ours done annually.
Wow, Alan, glad you're okay.
Knowing when to take prescription medicine is important. I have a friend that refuses to take thyroid medication. Some days it's hard to watch her slowly crumbling apart. On the flip side, I knew another gal that went from one Dr. Feelgood to another, driving hours from home just to get prescriptions. I truly don't understand either.
catherine
11-12-11, 7:32am
I help pharma companies SELL drugs and am on the ground floor of helping them develop them--and I'm also averse to taking them. I think that may be because of memories of my great aunt who died suddenly at 92. She had great posture, she lived by herself, she never ever complained, her only surgery was cataract surgery, she was just in perfect health until over the course of a week at the end of her life (just natural giving-up of her body).
She took one aspirin a day. I remember that she'd turn the bottle upside-down on the kitchen table to remind her she had taken it for the day.
So, maybe that's just an emotional reason not to take anything, but the other reason I don't take drugs is because early on in my career I learned that most of the drugs I was working with had in their PI (label) that in the clinical trials the placebo worked ALMOST as well as the drug itself. So, if a drug for pain was 25% efficacious, typically the placebo would be about 23% efficacious--and that was considered good enough for FDA approval (This is just a hypothetical example, but you get the point--there is usually not much difference between the placebo and the drug).
So, I figured, if I can continue to trick my mind into health, I'd rather save the money and do it. So, I tell myself that I'm healthy, I eat healthily, I do moderate exercise, I'm moderate in just about everything, and I just tell myself that I'm going to get old like Aunt Florence.
I do go to the doctor and BP/cholesterol/EKG is fine. I'm 59.
I realize I'm lucky, and it's not always a matter of willing yourself to health. I just think I have good Yankee genes.
ETA: I just read Alan's post, and I, too, am glad you're OK, Alan!! One of the other things I've learned in my pharma market research travels is that the drugs we take for BP/cholesterol have made a huge impact on coronary/cardiac events. I typically ask primary care physicians, what has changed over the past few years, and they say, "I don't get calls from the ER anymore" so I' say, "what do you mean?" and they say, "Well, people just aren't having heart attacks like they used to because of the drugs available." So, there's the other side of the coin.
Alan, glad you are ok!
I don't take any pills regularly, either OTC or Rx. I am being careful about salt and exercise as I have a family history of high blood pressure on both my mother's AND father's sides. I suspect that one day I will have to go on BP medication but my reasoning is that if I do what I can to manage it with lifestyle then I won't need as much Rx treatment.
Unfortunately, meds and lifestyle are seen as an either/or proposition instead of both. I think even if someone is on meds they are still better off to vigorously pursue all the lifestyle recommendations as it does help manage the disease.
catherine
11-12-11, 7:52am
Sorry, have to add to my previous post, because I do think drugs work. I've done a lot of work in many different areas and I'm amazed at how many drugs such as drugs for cancer, MS and other neurological disorders (especially newer targeted drugs) have actually increased survival and quality of life for millions of people. So I don't want to come across as completely drug-averse. I'm just trying to leverage my own health for as long as I can.
In fact, the other way in which my job has impacted my own health management is the realization that when you look at a pill, it's a tiny, tiny thing!! So much packed into something that's hard to find if you drop it in some cases. So, it got me thinking, if drugs do what they do and are that small, what about the bad stuff packed into food? It works the other way. What damage are some of those chemicals and additives doing to our bodies? If you packed them into a pill the pill might even be bigger than a drug. So, this insight has actually made me eat more mindfully.
You can search this yourself, but taking a particular amount of Hershey's cocoa powder a day can lower your blood pressure. My mom didn't believe me and she was doing it for awhile; she's a chocoholic and she loved it. She's stopped since and still takes her bp meds.
Yes, though I use raw cocoa powder from the helth food store, since the processing of grocery store brands removes some of the nutrients.
For a brief period, I had a doctor that was okay with me trying home remedies first, bless his little educated heart. Unfortunately, he left to practice at the VA clinic, so I am on a doctor search again.
I try to find alternatives to prescription medications, but I know when to throw in the towel and get drugs. (This is scary territory, but Greg44, have you researched the organic apple cider vinegar for BP? I thought it was a bunch of hooey, but it helped lower my BP. YMMV)
That apple cider vinegar is multi-talented. I've discovered it lowers blood glucose if taken with a meal, and it also helps gallstones to pass without getting stuck in the duct. One person I've talked with about it said that it markedly improved her digestion also.
It has lots of home and grooming uses too. I use it as a hair rinse to prevent tangles. http://frugalliving.about.com/od/doityourself/a/Vinegar_Uses.htm
Sad Eyed Lady
11-12-11, 9:49am
Gregg44, like you I wonder how much of our health problems can be controlled or eliminated with lifestyle changes. Unfortunately we are a people that wants a quick fix and thinks there is a pill for everything. Having said that, I am very thankful to have just reached my 60th birthday and I am taking NO prescription meds. I have never had to have any on an ongoing basis, maybe an antibiotic a few times in the past, but nothing that I have to have daily. I have very good health, my blood pressure actually runs low, my cholesterol is great, blood sugar in a normal range etc. so there is nothing I need to take, and as I said, for that I am very thankful. I try to do may part, exercise, eat fairly well, and first try to treat things naturally. I am a fan of Dr. Andrew Weil and I think he has such a good balance between natural and western medicine, and one of his quotes is kind of how I feel: he said something to the effect of "if I have a broken leg, I want to go to the ER. If I have a raging infection I want an antibiotic. But there is so much that can and should be treated with alternative measures, and/or lifestyle changes". That's not a direct quote, but the gist of it and I think that is a good outlook.
pinkytoe
11-12-11, 10:08am
I am 57 and don't take drugs or vitamins. I personally believe that lifestyle and diet habits control our health in all but a small percentage of people. I think it is proven that by either fasting or eating vegan, that within a day or two, one's bp drops to normal or low levels. Sadly, dh is flirting with disaster as he has borderline high bp, is 50 pounds overweight and is not active. I keep asking him if he is waiting for the big event to make the changes he needs to but that is all I can do - very frustrating.
Float On
11-12-11, 10:51am
Mid 40's and no meds.
JaneV2.0
11-12-11, 12:50pm
"So, I figured, if I can continue to trick my mind into health, I'd rather save the money and do it. So, I tell myself that I'm healthy, I eat healthily, I do moderate exercise, I'm moderate in just about everything, and I just tell myself that I'm going to get old like Aunt Florence." (Catherine)
I'm glad you brought up the placebo effect--it informs my philosophy as well. I think of the two healthiest, longest-lived people I descend from--neither of whom took drugs to get that way--and remind myself I come from sturdy stock.
I took my son in to the doctor for a hurt toe and the doctor was asking about his medical history. He's 12, never been to the doctor before (except for his well baby visits), rarely sick, so not much of a medical history. She was surprised he didn't have "something" to list on the form, I was surprised that she was surprised.
I am 64 and on no medications. I'll take an aspirin on occasion for headache or OTC antihistamine for allergies but that's it. And I am a retired pharmacist.
Glad you're ok, too, Alan!
I am pretty drug averse. I have watched my mom struggle with different types of health problems over the past decade that I STRONGLY suspect were linked to prescriptions for anti-osteoporosis drugs, which led to gastric issues, and on and on. Made me furious when I started to do some research and discovered that those drugs that technically were supposed to "build bone" did it in such a way that the bones were actually WEAKER than if they had been left alone. I also had a very bad experience when going off an anti-depressant a few years ago. It was really scary, and as much as I know many people need anti-depressants to function and survive, personally I will try to avoid them in the future. I now take a daily supplement that is recommended based on research done by the "body blues" people and that seems to have helped level out my moods a lot. I am also experimenting with a low-carb diet, which has also helped with mood swings (I am hypoglycemic and suffer from horrible blood sugar swings). I notice that after several months of the low carb approach, even if I do have large amounts of carbs or something sugary, my reaction is not as severe as it used to be, so I think I have gotten my insulin levels back to a more normal level.
I will take prescription meds if the condition requires, but I try to avoid most OTC stuff except basic painkillers when I have a horrible headache (also less now that I have gone low carb).
lhamo
Glad you're ok, too, Alan!
I am pretty drug averse. I have watched my mom struggle with different types of health problems over the past decade that I STRONGLY suspect were linked to prescriptions for anti-osteoporosis drugs, which led to gastric issues, and on and on. Made me furious when I started to do some research and discovered that those drugs that technically were supposed to "build bone" did it in such a way that the bones were actually WEAKER than if they had been left alone.
I'd like to read that reserach, if you could give me a reference. I was taking a synthetic hormone called Evista for osteoporosis and stumbled across information regarding the increased risk of ovarian cancer from the drug. I already have two risk factors: my mother had ovarian cancer and I've never had children. My doctor agreed that I should quit taking it. However, she prescribed it in the first place.
I also had a very bad experience when going off an anti-depressant a few years ago. It was really scary, and as much as I know many people need anti-depressants to function and survive, personally I will try to avoid them in the future.
Same here. I had a depressive breakdown over a year ago and was put on Pristiq along with Remeron for sleep. Never mind I'd been getting better on Lexapro and Ativan.
No one bothered to tell me that aspirin should not be taken with Pristiq and that Remeron side effects include respiratory infections and flu symptoms. I ended up going off on sick leave again two months later, because of a lung infection that involved coughing up blood and flu symptoms. My doctor thought I had walking pneumonia, the lung specialist thought I had a rare form of TB. Apparently neither of them read the package insert for the drugs I was on and didn't take them into consideration. I was popping aspirin like it was M & M's because the place where I was working had really un-ergonomic furniture and my back hurt all the time.
This was when I started mistrusting *all* doctors and prescription drugs.
Alan, that's very frightening; I'm very glad to hear that you are ok and that you were able to get some quick action taken.
I like to take a holistic approach to health, and prefer to eat for health and do things like yoga if I feel out-of-balance. I want to be able to prevent the onset of illness. I'm only in my late 20s, so I'm glad I've taken this approach early on. Obviously there is NEVER a guarantee, and the way I treat myself really depends on my motivation and mood. However, when it comes to acute, serious illness, modern medication wins out. I would have lost a kidney if it weren't for antibiotics, for example.
Day-to-day, I never reach for pain-medication if I have a headache or something - I straighten my posture, do some stretching and deep breathing; you'd be surprised how quickly this can work. I want to treat the source of the ailment rather than just covering up the symptoms.
JaneV2.0
11-13-11, 11:43am
The osteoporosis drugs that are being vigorously pushed on middle-aged women these days may also lead to esophageal cancer, according to reports.
I'm 59 and take no prescription meds and none have been recommended. I have a good diet and excersize, but mostly figure I'm just lucky. I'm not sure what my approach would be for blood pressure or cholesterol meds if they were recommended, but would definately be looking at alternatives.
I do take a daily vitamin, fish oil, and two or three herbal supplements routinely. I try to knock back one or two glasses of medicinal red wine in the evenings, but am a cheap date and it makes me pretty drowsy
HappyHiker
11-14-11, 9:05am
Just read somewhere that "anger is the cause of all disease." I've been sitting with that and wondering if it's true? I decided that it mostly is. I say "mostly" because anger would not explain a baby getting a cold or being born with a health issue, but for we adults..hmmm...a lot of truth in that observation. Perhaps we should add stress and an unbalanced diet as other hugely contributing factors to disease.
I'm with you Gregg...so far I have escaped the need for prescription drugs, with the exception of a period where I did take some antidepressants (a couple years, actually). Like you, I am taking measures to get and keep the weight down and hopefully that keeps the BP at bay. That's about the only problem I am predisposed to. Luckily, my family is a line of long-liv-ers. Oh, and I do not take vitamins. Frankly, I am just not a disciplined pill-taker; that also is part of the reason I don't want to be on an Rx.
Alan, be well! So glad you got the care you needed, and were able to afford it.
I do take vitamins and herbal supplements to help me with various things: Hawthorn reduced my blood pressure where nothing else helped, for example. Scullcap helps me sleep when I simply can't do it.
I also (rarely) take a small dose of a prescription sleep aid. I've had the same small prescription bottle for two years.
I exercise, keep my stress levels down, and make sure my life's a happy one. My dream is to grow a "green pharmacy" with most of the herbs that I've found helpful (st. john's wort, hawthorn, valerian, scullcap, ginger, garlic...) and tell Big Pharma to take a hike. At least until I can no longer function - at all - without a pill of some kind. As much as that'll be kind of a day of mourning, I'm grateful for science.
catherine
11-14-11, 2:51pm
Just read somewhere that "anger is the cause of all disease." I've been sitting with that and wondering if it's true? I decided that it mostly is. I say "mostly" because anger would not explain a baby getting a cold or being born with a health issue, but for we adults..hmmm...a lot of truth in that observation. Perhaps we should add stress and an unbalanced diet as other hugely contributing factors to disease.
I've thought about that as well, HappyHiker. I've also read some of Louise Hay's stuff. One side of me agrees with the mind-body connection with disease (after all, it's called dis-ease, implying that you are emotionally not at ease with something). But on the other hand, it seems horribly inappropriate to blame the victim. Obviously, none of us are immune to disease, no matter how happy, well-adjusted, or spiritually-evolved we are. OK, so Peace Pilgrim said that her colds and flus went away when she started her pilgrimages, but the Pope had Parkinson's. Helen and Scott Nearing practically had to kill themselves to get off the planet, but there are plenty of people like them who eat organically and simply, live a balanced life, and still die prematurely.
So, bottom line is, I think having a good attitude and low anger, stress and frustration can stack the deck in our favor, but we're still human, and we're going to get sick and die because of something.
HappyHiker
11-14-11, 4:59pm
I enjoyed your thoughtful post, Catherine, and do agree. After all, even with low stress and a healthy diet, we can still be breathing and ingesting chemicals that harm us...and genetics can and do play a role in what can befall us. Maybe we're just increasing the odds in staying dis-ease free by following a healthy lifestyle...and by keeping our weight within bounds and exercising, we find we're more pain-free, too.
Just read somewhere that "anger is the cause of all disease." I've been sitting with that and wondering if it's true? I decided that it mostly is. I say "mostly" because anger would not explain a baby getting a cold or being born with a health issue, but for we adults..hmmm...a lot of truth in that observation. Perhaps we should add stress and an unbalanced diet as other hugely contributing factors to disease.
I've addressed something like that here before--that so much illness is caused by stress. Anger has to be a major stressor that is rarely addressed in any medical checkup, and I think it contributes more to heart disease, for one example, than the markers that are almost a religion with providers. I have a pretty jaundiced view of modern medicine (have you noticed? ;) ), in part because the real causes of unwellness are almost never mentioned.
Berrydale
11-14-11, 7:24pm
So glad you're ok, Alan. I must admit I worry about my partner (56) who takes crestor, and micardis for blood pressure. I wish he didn't have to, but he has a family history of high blood pressure, and although he is slim and active, he has a "type A" personality. I've got lots to learn about all this, but I'm not keen on being dependant on medication - mainly in the event of some sort of long-term emergency, when acquiring necessary meds might be not possible. I am, however, very grateful for the meds, as they do help his heart health.
DonkaDoo
11-15-11, 12:38pm
This is not possible:
My friend works at the local Costco pharmacy and he says they fill 2,000-3,000 prescriptions A DAY!!!
I've noticed that just about every Walgreens drive-thru for prescriptions usually has a line of cars. I read that a large percentage of women take either anti-depressants and or sleep aids now. Add all the people on statins and one can see why. My in-laws both in their late 70s take massive amounts of prescription drugs. I read that now they want to test cholesterol in kids starting at age 13 and try to get fed approval for statins when they test high. Crazy!!!
I've noticed that just about every Walgreens drive-thru for prescriptions usually has a line of cars. I read that a large percentage of women take either anti-depressants and or sleep aids now. Add all the people on statins and one can see why. My in-laws both in their late 70s take massive amounts of prescription drugs. I read that now they want to test cholesterol in kids starting at age 13 and try to get fed approval for statins when they test high. Crazy!!!
Personally I think statins have become rather over-prescribed. My cholesterol has been pretty much the same for over 30 years. For a long time doctors said it wasn't fantastic, but nothing to worry about. Then after decades of drug companies promoting statins, a recent doctor wanted to put me on statins. For the same cholesterol that has been okay for decades.
http://altmedicine.about.com/od/consumerreviewsalerts/a/statins_coq10.htm
A friend was on statins, and the doctor told her to also take CoQ10. But she didn't understand why and didn't do it, so I was really kind of relieved when she lost her insurance and stopped taking the statins.
ApatheticNoMore
11-15-11, 2:07pm
I've noticed that just about every Walgreens drive-thru for prescriptions usually has a line of cars. I read that a large percentage of women take either anti-depressants and or sleep aids now. Add all the people on statins and one can see why. My in-laws both in their late 70s take massive amounts of prescription drugs. I read that now they want to test cholesterol in kids starting at age 13 and try to get fed approval for statins when they test high. Crazy!!!
I don't have the stats, but I feel a decade or two ago, someone in their 20s or 30s or 40s would of course not be expected to be on drugs beyond perhaps birth control and an antibiotic when needed. And I've now come to feel that now even being that age and not on a bunch of other prescriptions is some kind of anomaly. And that is just bizarre. I mean ok grandmothers and their pill boxes have been around for quite awhile. But the everyone of all ages on boatloads of meds thing is new. Considering how much thyroid dysfunction runs in my family though, including a younger sibling, I should probably be tested :\ Not that I really have symptoms or anything but ...
This is not possible:
My friend works at the local Costco pharmacy and he says they fill 2,000-3,000 prescriptions A DAY!!!
That is the number that stuck in my head -- but sheesh now you have me questioning myself! But maybe it is my second senior moment of the day. I took the wrong turn going to my doctor's office today...then was all turned around. The scary part is I have been going to his office for 30 years!
Having my blood work checked. Plus I have been checking my BP at home and it has been low. On several occasions I have been dizzy when I get up quickly from my desk at work...but then when I get to the doctor's office today...completely normal. We are going to continue to monitor it.
I have emailed my friend at Costco to confirm numbers! I know they have about 10 people working there + many refills are filled at the warehouse and shipped in.
you might need to consume more protein. we were getting the dizzies here, and with more protein, it went away.
you might need to consume more protein. we were getting the dizzies here, and with more protein, it went away.
I get a lot of protein. Doctor said as my blood pressure drops and the dizzies get more consistent then he would reduce or eliminate my BP pressure medicine. I have dropped some weight & increased my running. He said when my BP was consistently in the 90's/ he would adjust/stop meds. He also said I could be a marathon runner in great shape and still have High BP. Not what I wanted to hear...so we are just monitoring it for now. I have a BP checker at home.
flowerseverywhere
11-15-11, 5:58pm
it would not surprise me that a pharmacy fills thousands of meds a day. I had an antibiotic filled this am- first one I have taken in years and my MD office faxes to the pharmacy. I showed up about an hour later and they hadn't filled it yet, it was still in line. About eight people went to the Pick up window for multiple prescriptions in the five minutes I waited. Many of my female friends are on hormones, thyroid, antidepressants, BP, cholesterol and sleep aids. I was at a luncheon one day and one of the girls laughed at having a piece of cream pie saying "this is why I take cholesterol meds."
And there are tons of people like me who use mail order pharmacy for long term meds. I am on cholesterol med due to rotten family history, through diet and exercise I can get it close to 200 but they want it under 200, both my primary and cardiologist. It seems like a small sacrifice to stay out of the operating suite or ICU if indeed it will.
I have read repeatedly that studies show absolutely no benefit to women from statins. In fact, the only group with demonstrable benefits are middle-aged men with a history of heart attack. I suggest reading Malcolm Kendrick, Duane Graveline, MD, and others who write on the subject. Cholesterol is not toxic--in fact it's a critical component of your brain--and in my opinion, the only meaningful numbers in a cholesterol panel are those for triglycerides, which can easily be brought into line with a controlled-carb diet. Years from now, we'll look back on this whole cholesterol hysteria as a sham (based on flawed lipid theory) and a scam perpetrated by Pharma, which leans heavily on providers to prescribe or else.
I read your story with interest, Alan. I'd also been on cholesterol meds for about 5 years, but let it lapse last year to let my system take a break. My latest reading is 266, which is an increase of about 45 points from when I was taking the statin drug.
My doc is suggesting I start re-taking the drug, but I said I'd like to wait til sometime next year. I'm not anxious to start taking any prescriptions again, but your medical incident gives me pause. Plus I am in some agreement with JaneV2.0 regarding how this actually works on women. So guess I'll keep an eye on things for now.
I read your story with interest, Alan. I'd also been on cholesterol meds for about 5 years, but let it lapse last year to let my system take a break. My latest reading is 266, which is an increase of about 45 points from when I was taking the statin drug.
My doc is suggesting I start re-taking the drug, but I said I'd like to wait til sometime next year. I'm not anxious to start taking any prescriptions again, but your medical incident gives me pause. Plus I am in some agreement with JaneV2.0 regarding how this actually works on women. So guess I'll keep an eye on things for now.
This was a wake-up call for me, I'll stay on statins from now on.
My blockage was in the left anterior descending artery, commonly known as the "widowmaker". I can't prove it but my thought is that if I'd stayed on my meds this wouldn't have happened. I don't intend to give it another chance.
iris lily
11-16-11, 12:01am
alan, sobering lesson. Thanks for sharing.
flowerseverywhere
11-16-11, 4:14am
I have read repeatedly that studies show absolutely no benefit to women from statins. In fact, the only group with demonstrable benefits are middle-aged men with a history of heart attack. I suggest reading Malcolm Kendrick, Duane Graveline, MD, and others who write on the subject. Cholesterol is not toxic--in fact it's a critical component of your brain--and in my opinion, the only meaningful numbers in a cholesterol panel are those for triglycerides, which can easily be brought into line with a controlled-carb diet. Years from now, we'll look back on this whole cholesterol hysteria as a sham (based on flawed lipid theory) and a scam perpetrated by Pharma, which leans heavily on providers to prescribe or else.
I have three siblings, two female all of whom have had repeated hospitalizations for heart problems. I never have. I'm following the advice of a board certified cardiologist- my practice is highly regarded, young, and very up to date. I have read a bunch about this subject too and feel for me the benefits outweigh the risks. I believe in a different time my siblings would not have survived past 50.
I am a big reader and I have read numerous books related to health, the China study, Atkins diet, Paleo etc. and the health and diet and health advice out there runs the gamut. I have also read the authors you suggested. In the long run everyone is out to make money. My cardiologists would make far more money if they were able to do procedures instead of seeing me every year for a routine check. If others choose to follow different advice I have no qualms with that.
Alan, sorry for your recent problems. Sounds like you had a rough time of it. I am glad you are OK. Makes you really think differently about priorities and life when yours is threatened.
Making an informed decision and having complete faith in it is a powerful combination.
I'm in my mid-30s and take a half-supplement vitamin and fish oil when I remember (most mornings). Even supplements can be tricky: entire vitamins make me feel nauseous, even the children's one. However, I tried 4 times to give blood and was rejected for iron levels over the course of a few months, so decided I should probably take something for iron. Red meat wasn't doing it, and I wasn't willing to go from high-quality grass-fed to "regular" red meat and shoulder that cost. I do think a lot of Weil's work is great: he's a physician/scientist who works on aging research and is not extreme. I shudder to read things that are basically pseudoscience dressed up to be the new thing. I'm old enough to remember low-fat diets, now we're on low carb, next it will be low protein. In reality, your genetic makeup probably has a lot to do with how you should eat. Some people really do process foods differently. This is obvious to most people when you mention things like: milk, alcohol, soy, red meat. I knew a guy in his 20s who was vegetarian and very fit, and that still didn't get his cholesterol in the OK range. His father had his first heart attack before 40, and died in his late 50s of a heart attack. His nieces at age 8 or 9 were already on statins. OTOH, being nearly vegan did help him take less cholesterol meds than otherwise, because he saw a jump when he went to eating meat. In contrast, my doctor told me to eat red meat because I was having iron issues (being a pre-menopausal woman who gives blood regularly).
I think one should pay attention to family history if that's available, and try to stay off meds if possible. But completely eschewing all of modern medicine could be a mistake as well. The top causes of death in 1911 look very different from the causes of death in 2011, after all.
The osteoporosis drugs that are being vigorously pushed on middle-aged women these days may also lead to esophageal cancer, according to reports.
They also lead to "dead jaw" and even more brittle bones after five years of use. I just looked these up for a friend whose sister is starting a Fosamax-type drug:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/OnCall/fosamax-long-term-bone-strengthening-drug-linked-fractures/story?id=10045179
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/fosamax.html
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/case/fosamax-stroke.html
Farther down on the 'lawyersandsettlements' site I came across evidence that links Fosamax to esophageal tumors and that at least eight women have died from esophageal cancer.
Drugs - UGHS!!! >:( >:( >:(
And speaking of Lexapro, shortly after I retired I began having sleeping problems and what appeared to be severe hay fever symptoms. I finally figured out that the Lexapro, which my doctor had cut by half down to 5 mg., needed to be reduced further, so I cut back to 2.5 mg. this past Wednesday.
In looking up the half-life of Lexapro, I came across all sorts of information about its side effects. Aside from insomnia, it causes congested sinuses and dizziness, which I thought were hay fever symptoms. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
So now that the extra 2.5 mg of Lexapro left my system this morning (I know it did - I fell into bed not long after getting up, fell fast asleep, and had a nightmare - it felt like a fever breaking) and tonight I feel like I can sleep without doping myself up. I'll see how this goes for another few days, but I have instructions from my doctor at the ready as to how to taper off and stop taking it at all.
studentofecology
12-4-11, 1:30am
I'm probably a bit young to be posting on this particular thread, but I do have two conditions for which my parents and doctors tried to get me to take prescription medication for: asthma and allergies.
Neither of my conditions is life threatening, thankfully, and I don't like the thought of being dependent on a pill, so when I was in college I stopped taking pills for my allergies, and I haven't used my inhaler since 2008.
I really think that a lot of our pills cause more hurt than they heal, and I also think we should try to solve the root cause if at all possible. Since neither of my conditions is truly dangerous (my asthma is mild), I feel comfortable not taking medications for them. I'm working on increasing my lung capacity and control by biking a lot, which seems to be helping. I'm working on improving my allergies but that's mostly a case for avoidance; although I am trying to eat very healthy which I hope will help.
I'm in my late 40s and currently take no prescriptions. Over the last five years various doctors have prescribed a motley group of high blood pressure medicines for me to take, but I'm had bad reactions to all but the most common diuretic. That didn't do much of anything for my blood pressure so I am not taking it any longer. I would take prescription meds if I felt they were really working, but the side effects were so awful that I'm trying to work on my blood pressure through different methods.
I'm in my late 40s and currently take no prescriptions. Over the last five years various doctors have prescribed a motley group of high blood pressure medicines for me to take, but I'm had bad reactions to all but the most common diuretic. That didn't do much of anything for my blood pressure so I am not taking it any longer. I would take prescription meds if I felt they were really working, but the side effects were so awful that I'm trying to work on my blood pressure through different methods.
You might want to take a look at this article, Acorn:
http://blog.drwhitaker.com/blog/your-definitive-guide-to-wellness-medicine/four-blood-pressure-secrets-big-pharma-wont-tell-you
And keep an eye on what's happening while your blood pressure is being taken. Your arm should be at heart level, for one thing. Last time I went to the doctor her nurse didn't bother to hold my arm, PLUS she kept talking to me while she was taking my reading, which is a no-no. I also have to drive thirteen tedious miles to the doctor's; driving is known to raise blood pressure.
I had trouble with most of the common medications also. The one that worked for me was Dynacirc (the generic is Isradipine), which is a calcium channel blocker. A lot of doctors have never heard of it because it's so uncommonly used. Dynacirc is on the expensive side, especially for the time-released kind. I now take 2.5 mg. of Isradipine twice a day and it costs me $15 for a ninety day supply with my prescription plan.
The thing that helped me most with lowering my blood pressure was retiring. Not everyone can do that, but see what you can do about reducing stress in your life.
The following is not individual specific...you MUST know yourself, but based on 20+ years of hospice nursing....if you want to die young: smoke, take drugs for every ache and pain (bonus points for illicit drugs), be 50-100# overweight.
If you want to live to be > 80 years: work hard, take no prescription drugs, have a BMI of 18 or less, bonus points for a long marriage or devotion to family or other-person-centered cause.
Every person's biology is different....but taking one or two medications (or supplements) specific to your biology may be healthy. Taking 5 or more medications...there is a 99% chance that one or more are interacting, to your detriment.
(disclaimer: I am not a physician, I do not play one on TV.)
Thank you very much for the link and info Jemima. I always have "white coat" elevated blood pressure and agree, the medical staff doesn't always know the best methods to measure blood pressure. In addition to keeping your arm level with your heart, I think your feet are supposed to be on the floor. I'm trying to make it a habit to measure my bp at home, but I haven't been able to stick to it. I'm at the point where just the idea of taking my blood pressure makes my blood pressure go up! :)
domestic goddess
12-15-11, 10:06am
A cautionary tale about blood pressure: I was diagnosed with hypertension several years ago and given medication. Because of problems in the dr's office, I quit going to see her, ran out of meds, and just decided to ignore the whole thing. Got along swimmingly, or so I thought. Fast forward to April of this year, when I went to the ER for some severe hip pain. My blood pressure was so high that it caused quite a sensation, I was admitted and spent 5 days inpatient, getting everything under control, and having tests to see how badly my heart was damaged. OTOH, that 5 days in bed really helped my hip!
Don't ignore your blood pressure and get the treatment you need to keep it in the normal range. It will come back to haunt you!
mamalatte
12-15-11, 8:45pm
I also try very hard to avoid any sort of drugs, especially prescription and especially any drug that once you start taking it, the plan is to just keep on taking it forever. My line of work is representing people who blow the whistle on fraud against the government -- big Pharma is literally the biggest offender (lately, mostly for marketing their drugs for uses that are not approved by the FDA, which were then paid for by Medicare and Medicaid). I'm also constantly hearing about doctors ordering unnecessary procedures, kickbacks for prescribing certain meds or tests, etc. So, I'm a bit jaded on this topic!
I do acknowledge that some drugs are extremely helpful, especially for people with chronic diseases or conditions. At the same time, however, it seems that doctors are MUCH more fully informed and educated about treatments that are drugs vs. other treatments (like diet, exercise, supplements, meditation, etc.), and also, they are trained to deal with sickness, not health. So, it is not really a surprise that their treatment of choice is drugs to fix sicknesses, rather than an attempt to create a condition of health. This is slightly tangential but it is reminding me that there is a group of psychiatrists/psychologists that is doing research on "happiness," i.e., trying to figure out what makes us happy and reproduce those conditions. Apparently, there has been very little study in this area, as opposed to focusing on mental illnesses and their cures (although that is important too).
That is the number that stuck in my head -- but sheesh now you have me questioning myself! But maybe it is my second senior moment of the day. I took the wrong turn going to my doctor's office today...then was all turned around. The scary part is I have been going to his office for 30 years!
Having my blood work checked. Plus I have been checking my BP at home and it has been low. On several occasions I have been dizzy when I get up quickly from my desk at work...but then when I get to the doctor's office today...completely normal. We are going to continue to monitor it.
I have emailed my friend at Costco to confirm numbers! I know they have about 10 people working there + many refills are filled at the warehouse and shipped in.
My husband is a pharmacist and thinks 2-300 is about standard for a single store. He has interned/worked at Safeway, CVS and Walgreens. (He would love to work at Costco- but that is a very coveted position). 700 in a day would be absolute tops, tops. 300 a day is extremely taxing. 500/day is assembly line. No way 2-3000. That would require another store. Maybe two stores. :)
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