View Full Version : Surviving Antidepressants
I'm personally recovering from having taken Lexapro and a few other psychotropic "wonder drugs" over the past sixteen months, and since I noticed several members here remarking that they had a bad time getting off of these drugs, here's a forum I found where such experiences can be shared and some practical tips picked up: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php? It's very much on the up-and-up and they aren't selling anything, like some sites I've come across. I'm finding it helpful.
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?
Thanks Jemima. I'm sorry you've had such a rough time.
I feel like antidepressants fill a void somewhere in the biochemistry of our brains. When we remove it, all hell can break loose again.
DH took about a year to come down on his Lexapro to half dose. He's done very well in the process. I'm on a tiny bit of sertraline (zoloft), but sort of plan on being on it my whole life. Although DH didn't have alot of problems, his system doesn't seem to be very sensitive, so I'm not surprised he didn't go crazy coming down on it.
I think one problem with these drugs is that docs think there's a dosage that everyone should be on. Consequently, I think people get over-dosed. Not only do they get horrible side-effects from being on the drug, but go through hell coming off it. I take a couple meds and am taking a dose that most docs would say wasn't enough to help..........but its the perfect dose for my system.
Good luck to you Jemima! And thanks for the link.
Maxamillion
1-7-12, 2:05pm
Wish I could go off mine but the depression is bad enough on them; off of them, I'm a 24/7 suicide risk.
My son who is in recovery from addiction is under medical care. He is living in a sober 1/2wh on the campus of the medical complex. I have released myself of any controling I thought I could have over this and he is doing well I am very proud of him. I however inside struggle with the meds he is on now for anxiety/depression. Along with the anti craving meds( I get how they are tapered off those). I just do not see how he will be tapered off the others? I am going to review the links you posted and see if I can understand this process.
My son who is in recovery from addiction is under medical care. He is living in a sober 1/2wh on the campus of the medical complex. I have released myself of any controling I thought I could have over this and he is doing well I am very proud of him. I however inside struggle with the meds he is on now for anxiety/depression. Along with the anti craving meds( I get how they are tapered off those). I just do not see how he will be tapered off the others? I am going to review the links you posted and see if I can understand this process.
There is lots of information at the Surviving Antidepressants Forum, from scientific studies to personal antecdotes. I've learned a tremendous amount from the forum and it has been a huge help in my own withdrawal process. I think you'll find it helpful, too, and it may be a good resource for your son as well.
I found that website to be a great resource when I quit taking Paxil cold-turkey several years ago -- wish I had known before I started about the horrible withdrawal symptoms. By the time I found it I was already several days into withdrawal, with horrible vertigo and other unpleasant side effects. Decided to keep going with it and thankfully the symptoms subsided after a couple of weeks. I have benefitted greatly from antidepressents in the past, but will try all other available approaches before taking them again. CBT, diet, exercise, getting enough sleep all seem to be fairly effective for me all other things being equal, so hopefully I will never have to resort to the drugs again. They are powerful mind- and body chemistry-altering substances and physicians really should give people better education about the possible side effects and withdrawal symptoms before prescribing them, especially in cases of mild- to moderate-depression and anxiety.
lhamo
I've never had any such issues with taking Prozac, mainly due to seasonal depression. I've been able to taper off within 30 to 60 days several times when not needed.
Cymbalta was a debacle, my mood was horribly up and down. Even my wife said I had to get off the stuff. Possibly because the short half-life meant I couldn't maintain a steady concentration in my body. I have trouble taking pills consistently, especially when they need to be taken more than once a day.
Thanks Jemima. I'm sorry you've had such a rough time.
I feel like antidepressants fill a void somewhere in the biochemistry of our brains. When we remove it, all hell can break loose again.
DH took about a year to come down on his Lexapro to half dose. He's done very well in the process. I'm on a tiny bit of sertraline (zoloft), but sort of plan on being on it my whole life. Although DH didn't have alot of problems, his system doesn't seem to be very sensitive, so I'm not surprised he didn't go crazy coming down on it.
I think one problem with these drugs is that docs think there's a dosage that everyone should be on. Consequently, I think people get over-dosed. Not only do they get horrible side-effects from being on the drug, but go through hell coming off it. I take a couple meds and am taking a dose that most docs would say wasn't enough to help..........but its the perfect dose for my system.
Good luck to you Jemima! And thanks for the link.
I usually find that half the prescribed dose is plenty. In times of stress I take the full amount. When I first started taking it, 1/4 was plenty for a couple of months, which the doctor thought it wasn't enough to do anything but it did.
Although leaving antidepressants was the right choice for you, please be careful in this message. For many people staying on them is what they need to do at the moment and should not be encouraged to quit. Everyone is different and yes, these drugs were vastly overprescribed.
But for some this is the best drug at this time and no one who uses it should feel ashamed or wrong about taking it. Just saying.
But for some this is the best drug at this time and no one who uses it should feel ashamed or wrong about taking it. Just saying.
Agree. Because my depression has been mainly seasonal, I have more practice than most with going on and off antidepressants.
When I had to discontinue Cymbalta, I was switched to Prozac (generic for) rather than stopping medication.
Although leaving antidepressants was the right choice for you, please be careful in this message. For many people staying on them is what they need to do at the moment and should not be encouraged to quit. Everyone is different and yes, these drugs were vastly overprescribed.
But for some this is the best drug at this time and no one who uses it should feel ashamed or wrong about taking it. Just saying.
I certainly don't mean to shame anyone for taking antidepressants. I was on them for sixteen months. And there are a minority of people who need to keep taking them indefinitely.
The problem is these drugs are handed out indiscriminately, largely by psychiatrists, without any attempt being made to do a thorough medical examination. A very large part of my depressive crash was having my cholesterol lowered beyond a healthy point by Lipitor. The brain, after all, is 60% fat, and too-low cholesterol is known to cause depression. The psychiatrist should have known that and he probably did, but doctors seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to any sort of emotional upset and dish out some happy pills without any further diagnosis.
Many of the drugs actually *cause* symptoms of depression - suicidal thoughts, violence, hallucinations, and even mania. This is especially true for young people. Lexapro lowered my sodium level below the normal range, and a too low sodium level can result in fatigue, confusion, gastrointestinal problems such as nausea and vomiting, and even hallucinations. Even now, two months off the drug, my sodium level is at the very bottom of the desirable range and I have a lot of trouble with nausea and food sensitivities. It never got so bad that I hallucinated, but Lexapro certainly left its mark.
The people for whom I intended this post are those who are experiencing unacceptable side effects or antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, which can last for years, depending on the person. I'm certainly not trying to persuade those who are doing well to stop the drugs nor to make anyone feel belittled because they choose to stay on the drugs. If I gave that impression, I apologize.
This article on the dangers of antidepressants just appeared in Dr. Jim Mercola's newsletter today:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/25/legal-system-rules-antidepressants-cause-kids-to-kill.aspx?e_cid=20120225_DNL_art_1
"Of the top ten drugs linked to violence, half are antidepressants" - Dr. Mercola. Chantix, a smoking cessation drug which I once took, leads the list!!!
kally,
My post was also intended to be a warning to those that want to/decide they are ready to go off antidepressants to be careful about how they do it -- there were no warnings about withdrawal symptoms on the materials that came with Paxil when I was taking it, and I mistakenly thought it would be no big deal if I stopped all at once. I had done so with earlier generation non-depressants without the kinds of problems I encountered with Paxil.
I was actually prescribed the Paxil more for anxiety than depression, and the anxiety was related to the stress of trying to finish my Ph.D. dissertation. Yeah, that is something that can make you anxious! I decided to stop taking it after I had been on it for about 2 years, when we were planning to start a family. At the time, no one was concerned about possible effects of antidepressants on the developing fetus. Now we know differently -- they now know there are links between certain antidepressants and various birth defects, including serious heart defects.
Jemima's point about how her depression was probably linked to Lipitor is also worth noting.
There is absolutely no shame in taking a medicine you need to stay healthy physically or mentally. I hope our open acknowledgement of having taken/been helped by these kind of medicines can disabuse anyone of that notion. But they do have side effects and complicated withdrawal symptoms that many doctors will not tell you about (often because they don't know). If our messages help even one person avoid some of the horrible experiences we have had while trying to stop taking these medications, then they will have been of value.
lhamo
Ihamo makes a very good point. Antidepressants should never be stopped abruptly. I got off Lexapro over a four month period and it still was a rough ride.
It saw me through a stressful job situation but toward the end I not only refused to take Lipitor, I retired. BOOM! Down went the stress and I became nearly manic because of Lexapro. My personal doctor said to cut the pills in half, but even that wasn't enough, so I began to cut them in quarters. The doctor laughed when I told her, saying that was "practically nothing" and advised me to take the quarter pill every other day if a daily dose was too much (it was) and then just stop.
She was apparently unfamiliar with antidepressant withdrawal, because even tapering off like this over four months still left me a wreck: insomnia, food, light and noise sensitivities, and extreme irritability. I didn't feel depressed at all, just angry that a medication had made me so sick and ruined the first several months of a retirement to which I had looked forward for so long.
I've been off the drug for a bit over two months now and the symptoms are gradually fading, but if I had to do it over again I would do it a lot more gradually, especially at the end.
Here's yet another article regarding the recent 60 Minutes presentation about the over-prescribing of antidepressants:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Depression/31355
You'll note that the article affirms that antidepressants are effective for severe cases of depression, but generally not of much use in mild to moderate cases.
One of the biggest problems with these drugs is that the drug companies fail to publish clinical trials that result in failure and torture the positive data they do have to reflect much more favorable results than the data indicates. There are even drug companies whose "detail men" are trained to encourage off-label use. Johnson & Johnson was recently heavily fined for this:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/09/drug-firm-pays-billion-dollars-in-major-scandal.aspx?e_cid=20120209_DNL_art_3
Pfizer is notorious for twisting data out of all recognition.
There are many instances of drug companies misleading both doctors and the public regarding drug side effects and not only with antidepressants. Beware, and research your new prescriptiions before you have them filled.
oh I am sorry I know you didn't mean everyone. I just wanted to point out how it is for some people. Cheers.
rodeosweetheart
2-27-12, 1:08pm
Just wanted to share another aspect to this discussion, that some people have very very bad reactions to the drugs at the start:
"The Serotonin Syndrome is a potentially lethal condition caused by excessive serotonergic activity and is diagnosed by the presence of at least 3 of 10 symptoms: mental status changes (confusion, hypomania), agitation, myoclonus, hyperreflexia, diaphoresis, shivering, tremor, diarrhea, incoordination, and fever.
Source: Journal of Clinical Psychiatry
Symptoms: euphoria, drowsiness, sustained rapid eye movement, overreaction of the reflexes, rapid muscle contraction and relaxation in the ankle causing abnormal movements of the foot, clumsiness, restlessness, feeling drunk and dizzy, muscle contraction and relaxation in the jaw, sweating, intoxication, muscle twitching, rigidity, high body temperature, mental status changes were frequent (including confusion and hypomania - a "happy drunk" state), shivering, diarrhea, loss of consciousness and death.
Source: American Journal of Psychiatry, June 1991 "The Serotonin Syndrome"
A recent study (25 sept, 2004) shows us clearly that serotonin toxicity (such as the Serotonin Syndrome) can even appear rapidly in a few hours after taking a single therapeutic dose of SSRI medication. In Bio-Psychiatry it is a common thought that SSRI's are believed to have their effect by inhibiting the re-uptake of serotonin (downregulation of transporters) and thereby gradually increasing serotonin outside the tissue cell wall (extracellular) in the synaptic gap between brain cells (neurons) in the brain. In this important study, Zoloft (Lustral, sertraline) was given to monkeys for 4 weeks to establish how long it would take before Zoloft would have it's effect on serotonergic neurons and thus elevation of serotonin. In contrast with the commonly accepted SSRI theory, it was observed that serotonin levels raised NOT gradually, but rapidly and dramatically and kept on raising during these 4 weeks, an effect that can NOT be ascribed solely to a "re-uptake inhibition" of serotonin."
I seem to have this problem, as I had gigantic reactions to one pill of Paxil several years ago and one pill of Lexapro a couple of weeks ago. By gigantic, I mean the myoclonus with Paxil --my arm looked like I was in "Altered States" and Lexapro caused visual hallucinations.
I will not be trying any of these medications again. Too terrifying.
But I don't know that the withdrawal problems don't sound like they might not be related, psychotropiclaly speaking?
But I don't know that the withdrawal problems don't sound like they might not be related, psychotropiclaly speaking?
I don't know about that, but I do know the SSRI antidepressant drugs actually create new neural pathways and alter the old ones, and that is where withdrawal becomes difficult. Long after the actual drug is out of the bloodstream, these neural pathways begin to rearrange themselves and normalize, but that can take months to years. It's my own opinion that these drugs also seriously undermine the immune system.
Some of the stories I read on the Surviving Antidepressants Forum are heart-breaking. People who've been on these drugs (and usually multiple others) for years have a very, very difficult time in withdrawal with symptoms lasting for years after their last dose. For a long time psychiatrists wrote this off as a "relapse" and prescribed more drugs, and while that attitude may be fading, there is still no medical relief for withdrawal symptoms.
Stick to your guns, girl, and stay away from these drugs.
I took two different SSRIs for six months at midlife: Serzone and Prozac. Neither did anything positive for me that I could tell. After wandering around my local grocery store in a kind of spacey daze one morning, I quit cold turkey. I have no idea what dosage I was on. I had no withdrawal problems. Maybe they had me on a placebo. :sick:
I took two different SSRIs for six months at midlife: Serzone and Prozac. Neither did anything positive for me that I could tell. After wandering around my local grocery store in a kind of spacey daze one morning, I quit cold turkey. I have no idea what dosage I was on. I had no withdrawal problems. Maybe they had me on a placebo. :sick:
Six months may not have been enough time to have your neural pathways re-routed. Lucky you! I seemed to be resistant at first. It took a good eight weeks for Pristiq to take effect. Lexapro, however, latched on like a rabid and very blood-thirsty dog.
I often experienced the "spacey daze". There were times when something that would normally be upsetting just didn't touch me - I was "OUT THERE", dazed by Lexapro, somewhere in the Twilight Zone.
Aqua Blue
2-29-12, 10:58am
I have taken Prozac and Savella for fibromyalgia. With both of them I started having no extra thoughts. All the background conversation you have with yourself while other things are going on was gone. No thinking, Oh yes when I leave here I need to stop and pick up milk and bread.... It came back rather quickly when I stopped the Prozac, but it has been about 18 monthes since I stopped the Savella and it isn't back 100%, better but not ok. I refused to try any others and my Dr said, God helps those who help themselves.. Needless to say I have helped myself to a new Dr.
ApatheticNoMore
2-29-12, 12:47pm
I refused to try any others and my Dr said, God helps those who help themselves.. Needless to say I have helped myself to a new Dr.
+1
Helping oneself being strictly limited to pharmacological intervention of course (which afterall was only pushed so heaviliy in the first place because insurers did not want to pay for therapy). Darn larger and historical perspective :)
I don't doubt they work for some people, I have a problem with them being sold as the only way to overcome depression. Because I think that is simply not true. But they may be part of one way to overcome it. I think it's possible they could also give mildly depressed people an edge, but those people are probably basically fine as they are also. Jemima is right that the actual effectiveness rate for many of them are only slightly better than placebos.
frugalone
8-30-12, 12:17am
I am taking a very low dose of Lexapro right now, after going through H E double toothpick getting off Cymbalta. I will NEVER let anyone put me on something like that again. I suffered from the zaps while lowering my dosage, which was a big pain in the rear because we had to divide the itty bitty balls in the capsules and put them in blank capsules. THEN when I asked the doctor for another antidepressant, he prescribed one in the same class as Cymbalta. That's when I got off the merry go round.
Good luck to you, Jemima, in your journey.
Buttermilksky
2-16-13, 1:45pm
The problem is these drugs are handed out indiscriminately, largely by psychiatrists, without any attempt being made to do a thorough medical examination
Actually over 70% of SSRi's are prescribed by internists, GP's and other non-psychiatrists. My own opinion is that if one is tapering off of antidepressants or any medication, one should us a medical professional whose credentials one can verify. Sadly, much information posted on the net is only qualified by the fact that the site owner is a certified keyboard owner.
In today's world we would never dream of offering our credit card and bank information to strangers yet have no problem asking if we should go off of prozac or get a colonoscopy or have that mole checked out.
IF you want to go off of any medication, do it under the supervision of a professional. IF your health problems (whether angina, anxiety or arthritis) come back, you will have that Dr only a phone call away and--if you are in crisis-- the ER of the hospital where he or she has privileges.
Make your health decisions in concert with a professional. He or she knows the questions to ask, the history you present, the science that applies. As Jemima said, can give you "a thorough medical examination." Most importantly he or she can look right into your eyes. Human being, not screen name.
Call me jaded, but I think there are far more casualties among medical "true believers" than among those who do their own research--on the Internet or elsewhere. That's been my observation and experience for decades now. YMMV.
Buttermilksky
2-16-13, 7:08pm
No one said not to do your own research. What I am cautioning about are vulnerable people with potentially life threatening mental health issues who take their sole advice from a support group on the web whose members have anecdotes but no medical training. The result has been suicides with the member's posts being deleted as to not dissuade other members from continuing to taper off of antidepressants, anti anxiety meds, anti psychotics, etc.
My own belief--after observation and experience for decades--if that the anonymous Internet has many casualties from those who have tried to convert others based on their own prejudices.
At no time did I suggest one should ignore other avenues of investigation and seek only medical help. I was giving a warning about unregulated medical advice and those who may be vulnerable to it.
Yes my mileage does vary. One suicide, one school shooting, one infanticide is too many.
I am not going to say more since the anti-psychiatry movement can be vocal and strident and it really is like shouting into the wind trying to warn hurting people to find a professional they can trust and not rely SOLELY on those with their own mental health history trying to convince them that their hallucinations or angst can be cured with fish oil, prayer or massage. I know how villified Drs can be but I think life is too precious to allow someone to die because, quite simply, a stranger with no mediucal background finds MD's distasteful.
Peace.
It seems that many of the headliners, the violent actors in the news lately have been under professional care. Reports of school shooters on prescribed psychoactive drugs may or may not be accurate, and I can't speak for special interest mental health forums as I have no knowledge of them, but clearly there are plenty of people who are not getting adequate help--whether or not they are plugged firmly into The System.
I just reviewed this post and see I posted to it almost one year ago today, time flys. My son has been tapering off his meds for a few months now and has been under Doctor's care. He reports No issues and I have noticed no issues. He will be totally off all in a few months. One year ago I had no idea how he could be removed from so many meds, recovering from addiction and attempted suicide, yeah 2011 was a crappy year. But 2012 saw a changing man and 2013 he is well into being removed from all meds with the Doctor and his plans, it is a slow process with the pill splitter coming in handy. So in his case it is possible. Each case is different for sure.
Thank you, ctg492, for posting such an encouraging follow-up!
I am on day 6 of no Cymbalta....and it has been a heck of a ride to get here! I have mild depression and went on the anti depressants in 2008 while I was processing some issues from childhood and working with a therapist. So much has changed since then and in the last year I really started questioning if I should be on them. I talked to the doc and we are working together to get me off them to see how things are. I also agree that if I would have known some of the withdrawal symptoms, I would not have ever gone on the Cymbalta at all! I do have SAD but I take vitamin D for it during the winter as well as lots of vitamin C.
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