More bother for small farmers, from our friends in Washington... [Archive]

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bae

1-10-12, 9:28pm

I just opened the mail. Grrr....

A 4 page survey form from the USDA about my agricultural activities. With some very intrusive questions about things that are none of their darned business.

And my response is "required by law"....

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F8lsMEvf2OI/TwzxCv98RcI/AAAAAAAAEgY/fE52UwKwFFY/s640/IMG_0403.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2zvYsEmFYE0/Twzw4CS1InI/AAAAAAAAEgQ/fVAkIYIcXAI/s640/IMG_0404.JPG

iris lily

1-10-12, 9:30pm

Well, that sucks. How did you get picked? Does my FIL, a farmer, have to complete this form? I wonder.

flowerseverywhere

1-10-12, 11:12pm

Why do you suppose you got this? I looked on the webpage and there was little info to whom they sent these to? Most important I couldn't figure out why they need this information. So you raise a few cattle or chickens, or have a large garden. Not sure why it matters unless it is to increase someone's taxes.

Is there any info why they need this info? heck, most of us could get it if we like to grow tomatoes, save seed and try to grow the biggest pumpkin on the block.

and we wonder why we have a government deficit, buildings full of people to get this info, brochures printed and mailed and numerous people to get the answers and monkey around with the numbers. For what?

lhamo

1-11-12, 5:28am

Coincidentally, I just listened to a Planet Money podcast this morning that focuses on precisely this question -- what do government statisticians do, and more importantly what happens to a national and the global economy when they don't do their job well or accurately enough. In this case it is about Greece and what happened when the national statistics bureau messed up the national debt statistics at a serious level, and then re-reported them at much higher levels. Which essentially led to the European debt crisis. But it is interesting background to this question, and a really good story about "office politics" at the highest levels. Highly recommended.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/16/143846133/the-friday-podcast-how-office-politics-could-take-down-europe

So maybe there is a method to the madness of the survey bae received.

lhamo

goldensmom

1-11-12, 6:25am

This survey is usually sent to those who report income from a farming operation and file a Schedule E Income Tax form, Expenses from a Farm Income. I suppose it is sent out randomly because we get these but not every year. Surveys are where agencies get their statistics and from which they operate. It is a small hassle but I don't really have a problem with it.

peggy

1-11-12, 9:15am

I'm wondering if they use this info for ag grants to states and such. I know they use census info for all sorts of things, and this is probably along those lines.
I'm curious, what questions did you find personal and offensive? Can you give us an example?

TMC

3-2-12, 5:18pm

I received this in the mail too, I'm curious if anone else received and what you are going to do?

Jessamyn

3-2-12, 5:50pm

Well, it's annoying but I regularly fill out questionnaires similar to this at my company and its subsidiaries and it's a financial services company. So I don't think that they're really going after farmers as much as they're going after information about the country's businesses as a whole. They just have forms that are pointed towards the appropriate business.

AnneM

3-3-12, 12:21am

I received one in January, and filled out the first 5-6 questions. If you answer yes to having any animals ( I have pet chickens), they assume you have an "operation" as they call it. They ask all sorts of intrusive questions. It's been a while since I filled it out, but I recall being asked for our ages, how much of our land was devoted to different types of agricultural pursuits, how many Hispanics we had working for us, etc.

I gave them an earful in the comments section, and asked them how the H*ll they got my name and why on earth they were interested in my chickens.

Interestingly today, one of our local news stations had an article about the survey http://www.king5.com/news/Confusion-fear-sprout-over-farm-survey-141234373.html

There's a link at the bottom of the survey that takes you to a page for the organization that sent out the survey. Here's their answer to the question of "Why did I get this survey"? http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Popular_Topics/National_Agricultural_Classification_Survey/How_Did_You_Get_My_Name/index.php

For me, my guess is that the Grange where I buy my chicken feed has to turn over their customer information to them. Otherwise, how would they know? I am really irritated by this. It is such an invasion of privacy, and on the form it says we are required by law to fill out the survey, even though most of the questions were not applicable to me and my family.

bae

3-3-12, 12:30am

I received this in the mail too, I'm curious if anone else received and what you are going to do?

I lined the guinea pig cages with the ones they've been sending me.

Gregg

3-3-12, 12:50am

Bae, please feel free to not answer if this is too intrusive, but I'm curious what kind of agricultural activities an individual on a relatively small and remote island might have access to that would be of interest to the federal government. I don't in any way mean to sound demeaning, but the average ranch where I'm from is pretty close to the size of your island. Is the island really productive enough to warrant such a 'study'? The USDA does some strange things, I'm just trying to figure out what their goal is here.

bae

3-3-12, 1:14am

There are several hundred small farms in this county. Most of them are single-family operations. Not much in the way of grains and bulk crops, mostly higher-value produce and fruit, and a little bit of livestock. Two of the county's highest-dollar producers are on < 40 acres.

The county used to be a major fruit-growing center for the West Coast, due to the ease of water transport, and the good soil.

Keep in mind that land in the Pacific NW is often vastly more productive per acre than the extensive ranchlands of other regions :-)

redfox

3-3-12, 2:12am

Gregg

3-3-12, 12:02pm

Keep in mind that land in the Pacific NW is often vastly more productive per acre than the extensive ranchlands of other regions :-)

No doubt about that. We can grow prairie grass and roughly a cow for every 10 or 12 acres of that! Higher value (nutrient dense) crops pretty much wouldn't stand a chance out there.

I'm curious to know what the USDA is actually after. Are they trying to identify producers for tax purposes? Subsidies? Federal land use codes?

puglogic

3-3-12, 12:07pm

This is very interesting to me, as we embark on several small local/sustainable agriculture ventures in my community. Not that I mind providing information, but I do wonder to what purpose it will be put, and whether it'll be a constructive purpose that actually benefits people.

peggy

3-3-12, 3:44pm

Information is power, and I'm sure even bae, as part of the local government, sees the advantage of having correct and up to date statistics on the area. Not every inquiry from the government is evil! Perhaps the government would like to know to what extent the area still is a fruit producer. If they were a major player in the past, wouldn't it be good to know if it is still? And what fruits people are growing. Or maybe, in reference, everyone could just keep quoting statistics from 1957, or whenever.;)
In allocating monies, which are not infinite as it turns out, wouldn't it be useful to know such things? What percentage is forest, what fruit, what lambs, how many small family farms, how many owned by big agra, etc...

bae

3-3-12, 4:00pm

Information is quite handy to have. The County ag extension office, the State Ag Department, and half a dozen other local entities have plenty of fine, useful datasets for us to use, generally more current and accurate than the US Census data.

I'm unclear where in the US Constitution the Federal government has a legitimate role in gathering this local data by force, handy though it is to have...

Zoebird

3-3-12, 4:37pm

bae -- are your g-pigs pets or food?

bae

3-3-12, 4:51pm

Well, while they *are* a 4H project, they will not go gently into that good night:

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https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Fa32gLvxtwc/Tl2W_uAB2MI/AAAAAAAADyw/9oMMSBFo5w0/s576/IMG_2701.JPG

Zoebird

3-3-12, 5:07pm

cute little guys.

i was talking to my friend about permaculture in our very small space (which is mostly concrete) and she reckons we could do quail (for eggs and meat) and g-pigs (don't' have the issue of not having enough fat such as rabbits) -- as they require minimal space and breed quickly.

I'd have to learn how to quickly butcher them and find some peruvian recipes I guess. :D

I'd like to get the veg and herbs going first. I have two tomato plants that survived, but the fruit is still green. It's because it's been mild, apparently. I don't think they're ever going to go red at this rate.

But, my friend is helping me with herbs -- so we're going to start there. I'd like to produce at least *something* and then work my way up to quail and guinea pigs. :D

TMC

3-3-12, 9:42pm

I lined the guinea pig cages with the ones they've been sending me.

Yup, they've sent me two so far, wonder how far they will go to get their answers?

Chickens?...what chickens?......(as a small herd of pigs tiptoes by) :laff:

Gregg

3-4-12, 11:35am

Foreign ownership of agricultural land is a hot button issue around us right now. Nebraskans actually passed a referendum back in the '80's that made it illegal for foreign based individuals or corporations to own land in the state. The concern is primarily directed at the Chinese. A large population, dwindling agricultural resources and a pretty fair bankroll made a lot of folks here nervous that the land could be systematically gobbled up. The supreme court shot that law down in 2005. To date there has been no surge in foreign investment, but a lot of people are keeping a close eye on any ground that sells. I was curious if there is any such concern in other parts of the country?

The Storyteller

3-5-12, 8:36am

Much ado about not very much. The word CENSUS should give you a clue about motivations.

http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Help/FAQs/index.php