emergency preparedness for your situation [Archive]

flowerseverywhere

3-1-12, 7:12am

a part of simple living in my opinion is to be able to survive for at least a short time the normal natural disasters that occur in your situation without relying on fema or the national guard.

every time I see a big tornado and hear people talk about getting in the bathtub while their house blows away around them I think of what I can do to survive the worst case scenario I am likely to encounter.

For me I can think of Ice Storms, interruption in the water supply, infrequent small tornadoes that could knock out power for a few days, and snow storms. Ice storms seem to cause the most havoc, and there have been two major near me (as in loss of over a week of power) in the last 20 years. I also have 3 nuclear power plants 20 miles away and one 50 miles away, but we are not downwind of any of them. railroad tracks are a few miles from my house going to and from the nukes and a coal burning plant and as we know trains can derail. I would leave the area if there was a major event (we keep our car with at least a half tank of gas for this reason).

I have this picture in my head of people sitting on the roof of their houses the day after Katrina with signs "no food-no water" that I just cannot get over, especially since there were days of warning.

So are you prepared for an interruption in life as you know it? Could you survive for three days, five days, two weeks with no outside help if a natural disaster happened near you? Could you quickly leave your area if a train derailed or power plant had a problem? What are you doing to move towards self sufficiency?

Personally we are way more prepared than most people we know but we keep our mouths shut because if we did have a major event I don't want a line of people at the door who lived for today and didn't even have a few gallons of water stored.

I got to thinking about this more after someone posted the Kellene Bishop preparedness pro website regarding storing water.

razz

3-1-12, 8:14am

We have jugs of water, homedried food, wood stove and wood, canned food, dog food, a.22 gun and bullets, and frozen food. The most important part is that we know most of our neighbours very well.
We could survive on our present supplies for some time but would get tired of the limited diet after a while. Rice and legumes or pasta and sauce with pickles and veggies and applesauce to eat.
Our biggest concern is the sump pump during wet weather for which we have no alternate power supply once the generator runs out of gas.

ctg492

3-1-12, 9:25am

Very good questions and ones we have thought about alas only in the moment after a major issue in the world that brings it to our attention. I am sad to say not much. I have enough food for a short few days. Pet food for a month,umm where are my priorities? Water we have none, pool water to bathe if that was important. Now I am embarrassed.
I guess it is when something hits us in the face we think about it. We had one tornado that affected us for a week no power. We bailed and left the area to our place up north. We have had no power for a few times, again we just left. Gas was short in our area a few years ago, becauae of the the tornado. Then the gas scare the same year. I had a great idea to fill 5, 5gallon cans with gas, we would use them in the tractor and such anyhow. Husband said to me, How far will that get us if there was actually no gas? He worked 70 miles away. What sursprised me was grocery stores actually only keep less then three days supply on hand and that goes fast in a crisis. During Katrina again we thought, Money we should have cash. So I thought about some liquid cash in the gun safe. Then again that fell through. How much to last how long would we need? $1,000----$10,000???
I have read survival blogs and pages many times. I need to focus more I guess. I think it comes down to our history and at 50 I have not had a crisis that was more then a bother. I am bothered now by my lack of preparedness.

herbgeek

3-1-12, 10:34am

I'm good for a couple of days, but not for an extended emergency. We keep talking about getting a generator (mostly for the well pump) but haven't bought one yet. I have heat (woodstove) and non potable water (hot tub). We need more drinking water, I just need to set up a habit to fill jugs and rotate them. Its inconvenient to be without power, but not catastrophic. Our usual issues are hurricanes, ice/snow storms, occasional high winds.

Jemima

3-1-12, 1:42pm

I have a two week supply of water and about a month's supply of food stored. That's probably not enough, but it's the best I can do now. Shortly after I moved into my new house, a water main blew and we were without tap water for seven days. I learned my lesson.

I also have started growing fruit bushes - blackberries, blueberries, elderberries and soon-to arrive sea buckthorn. Herbs, especially mint, which I find delightful for tea. I'm about to starting planting lettuce and other cool weather crops.

I can do very well without meat. Maybe better. I support local food sources as well as I am able.

Spartana

3-1-12, 2:35pm

Since I don't own a home I would probably just choose to leave the area if I could - assuming I could either drive, bike or walk out. Otherwise I have stored water and food (that doesn't need to be cooked) and pet food to last me long enough for almost any disaster. I also have a basic survival kit in a backpack in case I need to leave the area immediately. I live in a warm weather area (coastal southern Calif) so don't need to worry about heating or cooling or really any weather issues. I'm armed to combat maurading zombie hoards too :-)! I also have a fairly large stash of cash hidden in my house in case banks and ATMs are down.

bae

3-1-12, 3:06pm

At my home site, if I'm dealing with a simple interruption of supplies coming in, we can survive indefinitely, though it'd sure be nice to get the occasional shipment through of medicines and so on. We have plenty of food, means to gather and produce more, and plenty of clean or easy-to-treat water available. I have enough firewood already on-hand to heat the house for years. Zombies I am assuming can't swim across 20 miles of cold current-swept ocean water, so I'm not worried about the zombies. Fuel would eventually become an issue, I can run with very very little fuel use, but it is very convenient to have some on hand to run pumps, machine shops, forges, and that sort of thing. Given a bit of time, I could arrange to produce fuel though, or engineer work-arounds. I have about 2000 gallons of diesel stored in various ways, so that should give me a bit of time.

The most likely event to strike me is a wildfire, which will basically involve evacuating the house and heading elsewhere, ASAP. Luckily, I have several nearby locations all ready to move into, and they are outside the zone likely to burn. They are however in the zone likely to be destroyed by earthquake or tsunami or storm, so I figure with multiple locations subject to different sorts of disasters, I'm covered, it is unlikely all will be destroyed at the same time.

My whole family could live on our boat for several months, as it sits at the dock today. With a few minutes notice, we could head off and end up anywhere from Alaska to Baja. I'd probably head to Vancouver and eat sushi and dim sum until our home was rebuilt. With a couple more minutes notice, we could use the boat next to it, which I have a key to, and head, well, anywhere - it is capable of circumnavigation. I'd just want to check with the fellow who owns it first, we crew for him often, and he'd probably want to go too :-)

And if the whole area is destroyed, and my boat sinks, I have plenty of friends around the world I can infest :-) I could always go visit my cavy ranch in Colombia, see how the herd is coming along.

Blackdog Lin

3-1-12, 8:16pm

A subject dear to my heart, and thank you flowerseverywhere, for asking our members to think about it.

Short term or localized disruptions:
- tornado/serious storm, catastrophic house fire, hazmat train derailment: have close friends and family in town who would take us in. Have much in the way of supplies that we could take if undamaged. If further bugging-out is necessary, have family 1 1/2 hours away who would take us in. Vehicles are always topped off, and there is always a 15-gallon gasoline supply kept on hand.
- power outages. If localized and short termed have both stored water and a source for more (medium term only), and 3 alternative means to make it safe to drink. Have several methods for cooking food, and a large pantry of long term food storage. Have a dedicated cabinet for emergency lighting (flashlights, batteries, Coleman lanterns and fuel, coal oil lamps and fuel - but medium term only. I'm guessing at 2-3 weeks we'd be in trouble.) Have a kerosene heater and small amount of fuel for heat - could be a game-changer. WE could bundle up for the cold, but how long would my heat source keep the pipes from freezing, and force us to leave the house?

Long term disruptions:
- the financial meltdown I believe will happen. Unless we're independently wealthy and have the money for the retreat and the weapons and the 55-gallon barrels of food and water and supplies.....I am not able to be prepared for these. If this comes to be, then I plan to live on my wits and the learning I've been accumulating these last few years. I'm pretty sure it won't be pretty, and it won't be enough. But hey! Simple Living as we all practice it in our own ways today would always stand us in good stead in the case of major disruptions. Our "mind set" makes us able to see alternatives, and be able to make do with what we have. We will be ahead of many.....

Tradd

5-7-12, 10:40pm

I've just restocked my supplies. Canned soup, ravioli, ramen cups (just add hot water). I have a couples cases of .5 liter bottled water and a couple of jugs. Good stock of batteries, small lanterns, and two of those little lights that strap to your head. Sterno and this little folding stove to heat my canned goods and hot water for tea. Battery operated radio.

Need to get a weather alert radio. I'm in the Midwest and tornadoes are my one huge fear. That's one of the reasons I live on the ground floor in my building. If something was more than 48-72 hours, I have plenty of friends who would take me in.

I have a bug out bag for home with a change of clothes, but I also need to do one for the car. And get some hiking boots or such as I have nothing.

As for self-defense, I'm getting myself some firearms (handgun) training (reputable class) and will purchase one sometime soon.

Gregg

5-11-12, 9:56am

We're most prone to storms, but really not in much danger of other disasters. We're temporarily located in a rental while the house is under construction so much more limited than normal. We do have a decent supply of food on hand, keep jugs of water, first aid kits, candles and camping gear, flashlights and batteries, an am/fm/weather radio with multiple power options, bikes, etc. We would be fine for a while except in the winter if we experience a power outage from something like an ice storm, which does occasionally happen around here. In that case we would have no heat and so would just have to pack up and find other arrangements. Other than that tornadoes are at the same time the biggest threat and the least likely. We get them here and they can be at the top of the scale, but at the same time the chances of actually being right in the path on one is very small. The same measures listed above are about all you can do to prepare for such an event other than build an extremely strong shelter. That is a feature of the new house, but no of the rental townhouse. Especially at this time of the year that is a concern, but my family is well versed at what to do if need be.

Spartana

5-21-12, 5:48pm

Zombies I am assuming can't swim across 20 miles of cold current-swept ocean water, so I'm not worried about the zombies.

They can't swim but they can walk along the bottom of the sea. They don't get cold, don't need air, don't really need food, and never die (except by shooting them in the head). So yeah, they comin' to get ya :-)!

Actually, I just read a short story about how Zombies lurk underwater for long periods of time waiting for unwary boaters so you never know! Get your zombie-guns ready :-)!

ljevtich

5-31-12, 2:11am

We live in an RV. If natural disaster struck our area - like a wildfire, we would be out of there. We have a 100 gallon fresh water tank, solar panels and inverter for everything except air conditioning, a 25 gallon gasoline station for our bikes and generator, lots of dried and frozen food, two large propane tanks for cooking & heating water, and our truck has 125 gallon diesel tank (two tanks, one on truck, one external). We have lots of medicines & paper goods, and sprouts for keeping greens.

most tend to have lots of dried goods, but then no way to cook the water. Or no water or no iodine/bleach to treat water first. Baby steps.

shadowmoss

5-31-12, 10:49am

I live in an apartment in Honduras. Normal weekends have them deciding to turn off the power for the entire day on Saturdays. Like last weekend. I have a backpacking propane canister stove to make coffee, the only real necessity for me. I also have a Platypus water filter good for millions of gallons that gets the bacteria out and a 1st Need filter that takes everything bad out of the water that is getting near to needing a new cartridge. I filter ALL tap water that I consume down here, or drink bottled water. I have 5-10 Liters of water filtered at any given time. Again, coffee...

The apartment building was built on top of a cistern that I'm assuming is filled from town treated water, I really should check that..., and uses an on-site pump to pump water into a 75 gal(?) holding tank on the roof. So, when we don't have power we still have some water. This is Honduras, so heat isn't an issue and I don't have air conditioning anyway. I only realized I had no power when my coffee maker didn't turn on. Then I realized my computer hadn't turned on when I'd pushed the power button on the way by.

I am mostly worried about Hurricanes, and my building is made of concrete blocks and has a concrete roof. Bars on the windows. Living here on a day to day basis constitutes what some would consider emergency status. If the crap really hit the fan I'd do my best to get to the post (10 miles away) and hope to be flown out to safety. Hopefully one of the 2 co-workers who are armed would stop by and get me on their way if it was really bad.

awakenedsoul

6-2-12, 8:14am

I have a good stockpile of food that I rotate and replenish. I keep ten to fifteen gallons of water in storage. I have an emergency backpack with a solar powered radio, food, pajamas, a change of clothes, etc...My stove is gas and vintage, so it would still work in a power outage. I don't really need heat or air in our climate. The main thing we have here is brush fires. They are frightening. I had to leave in five minutes one time because there were three of them, on all sides of my cottage. Boy was that a lesson! I needed to get gas, and didn't have cash. I used my atm card, but now I keep cash on hand and keep at least a half a tank of gas in my car. I had to leave my pot bellied pig and chicken. At the time I had three large dogs, and couldn't fit the others in my compact car! (Now I have two dogs and a dog crate to transport the chicken. The pig has passed away.) We also have earthquakes here. My house was built in the 40's and made it through the Northridge quake. I have a bicycle and live close to everything I need. During the fires I drove up the coast and stayed with family. The freeways were gridlocked going south. It's a good feeling to be organized and prepared. I also believe in getting out early. A lot of my neighbors stayed here during the fires. They had the shotgun mentality. I kept all my important papers together in a file and just grabbed it on my way out the door.

bluesman423

6-2-12, 1:45pm

Due to my lifestyle, I can live indefinitely with two exceptions. First is medication, I am an insulin dependent diabetic and frequently have only a 90 day supply. The other exception is outside interference. If other people (civilian or government, and government is my biggest worry) want my supplies then I will do my best to defend them and I am pretty well equipped.

I believe in "bugging in" because any person that leaves their home and "bugs out" without a predetermined and prestocked place to go will simply become a refugee and will likely die. In addition to the hordes of deperate people clogging the raodways will be those looking to take what you have. "Living off the land" is also not a viable option. Regardless of your skills and equipment, there will be tens or hundreds of thousands of people with the same idea. All of the edible plants and animals will be gone within days and then what would you do?

If you have no supplies begin now. Determine everything you use on a daily basis (water, food, meds, toiletries, energy source, etc) and slowly stock that as you can.

A good quality small solar power system is not that expensive and much better than a generator that is only good until you run out of fuel. A small system will power a fridge, communications, a fan and few light bulbs and this is all you really need.

Begin to buy food with a long shelf life now when it is on sale. When canned goods go on sale buy several cases and date each can. Same with things like flour or salt, sugar, etc. Buy regular food in quantity when it is on sale and then eat from it every day. The money saved really adds up when you are always eating food you purchased at a sale price. Always rotate your stock. If things change drastically enough that you are needing the stored food it is much better to eat a diet you are used to than a new diet which can further upset an already stressed body.

Every person you are storing supplies for needs one gallon of water each day. Wanna store water for three people for thirty days? Its easy, three people times thirty days equals 90 gallons. This does not include water for cooking, bathing, washing clothes, etc.

It is prudent for each person or family to be able to defend their supplies because, if it comes down to it, there will be others willing to kill you for them.

I know this sounds like a tall order but you do it much like one eats an elephant, one bite at a time.

Remeber this, you can live three minutes without air, three days without water and three weeks without food. I know this statement is not gospel but you get the idea. Prepare accordingly.

And, lastly in this rather long post is one simple fact. Every person that knows of your preparations is a potential enemy that will kill you for your supplies. Think not? I promise you that most people will kill you for your provisions before they will let their children, grandchildren or spouse die of thirst or starvation.

bluesman423

6-2-12, 1:48pm

By the way, if things get really bad, the stores will be out of food within hours, your cell phone and even CB radio will not work, there will be no gasoline to be purchased anywhere and the internet will be down.

Spartana

6-9-12, 1:26pm

I believe in "bugging in" because any person that leaves their home and "bugs out" without a predetermined and prestocked place to go will simply become a refugee and will likely die.

I believe in prepared to live by bugging in as well as by bugging out. In many cases of natural or man-made disaster you only have seconds to leave the area - often times you can't even make it back to you home - before disaster strikes. Earthquakes, tsnuamis, wildfires, floods, land and mud slides, avalance, nuclear plant meltdown, military invasion (you never know about when those Canadian Curling Fiends will invade!!) Just teasing Mrs. M :-)! I am, after all, a partial product of the Canadian school system (ages 9 to 14) and know my "O' Canada" by heart still so will be spared by the invading hoardes of Canadians :-)! And in many cases you home and all your stuff will be wiped out in the disaster or you may not be able to return home for days, weeks months or maybe never. So having a bug out bag is something I believe everyone should have near by them - in their car as well as home. And of couse the arsenal to fend of the maurading zombies too :-)! Got my bunker and tin foil hat all ready!

bae

6-9-12, 3:55pm

I believe in "bugging in" because any person that leaves their home and "bugs out" without a predetermined and prestocked place to go will simply become a refugee and will likely die.

The thing is, most "bug out"-requiring disasters in the USA only impact a limited area, and are not a continent-wide reenactment of "The Road" with cannibals under each bridge. Simply relocating a few hundred miles will resolve most of the common situations. To that end, a wad of $20 bills, a couple of good credit cards, a full tank of gas, bank accounts with firms that have out-of-area offices, and a passport will get you set up happy. You can kick back for a few months in NY watching Broadway shows while your house is rebuilt, or jet off to Paris for some fine dining while waiting on the insurance check.

Also consider:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FVgrndWLL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

Blackdog Lin

6-9-12, 9:05pm

I am currently (re)reading "Parable of the Sower" by octavia e. butler. An enjoyable and well-written tale of a "slow-burn" deterioration of civilization and society in the US.

It's the way I see our country going. I don't feel at large risk for a big "bug-out" situation. I do feel the need to prepare for a slow "bug-in" situation, where services and foodstuffs and essentials become more and more unavailable or unaffordable. I feel a definite need to try to be more self-sustainable.

The frog boiling in the pot.....

Lainey

6-10-12, 6:56pm

Thanks, Blackdog Lin, I'll have to check out that book. Sounds similar to "Into the Forest" http://www.amazon.com/Into-Forest-Novel-Jean-Hegland/dp/0553379615/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
another book about the slow collapse. It does sometimes seem like we're on our way to second-world status in some parts of our country already so I'm leaning towards this slow slide scenario as the more likely.

RosieTR

6-29-12, 11:52pm

Interesting book possibilities, thanks for posting! I pretty much think you'll need stuff for a few weeks, or else you better be super-prepared for apocalypse type situation in which most people would die and those that lived would live mostly by wits. The few week situation is IMO much, much more likely if you consider recent disasters: 9/11, Katrina and other hurricanes, various tornadoes and earthquakes, wildfires. My most likely one for a few weeks is tornado, followed by mother of all blizzards (which would likely be, at best, a few days or up to a week) and then run-of-the-mill fires. In any of those cases, having info stored on the cloud would be quite useful, and if we happened to be at home in a situation that was either bug-in (blizzard) or something with warning I would plan to use camping gear we keep around most of the time. I suppose the apocalyptic situation most likely to happen other than a slow collapse of our society, is if Yellowstone blew. In that case I suppose I would need to call on relatives who live on the east coast and stay indefinitely. If I lived close to, or in, the mountains I'd have my stuff packed right now and waiting to go. I know people who got "pre-evacuation" notices and just went to work as normal which boggled my mind because it doesn't get much more of an emergency preparedness situation with some time to think rationally than that. Better to pack stuff rationally over the course of an hour or 4 than in 10 min or have to literally run to the car with nothing like some people had to.

Tiam

6-30-12, 1:25am

People seem to divide along the lines of a short term emergency, (a few days to a few weeks till things are back in control) and long term emergency(months/years, complete breakdown). I think for myself, the short term scenarios(short term supply of shelf stable foods, water candles, light sources with some good credit cards, some cash and gas and bug out supplies is the best option for me.

gail_d

7-1-12, 11:28pm

The mid-Atlantic storms knocked out my power on Friday night at my suburban apartment. I had no power, no landline phone, and no internet. I did fortunately have (cold) water.

Things that helped: my Eton wind-up radio and my (no-name) wind-up LED lantern. I'll be buying these as Christmas presents for my family. I didn't open the freezer door. I did use up cottage cheese from the refrigerator. I have a Sterno stove and some fuel but didn't use it, as I had plenty of no-cook things to eat (cereal, peanut butter and jelly, fruit).

My apartment has a balcony that is shaded from the afternoon sun. It was cooler inside (though not by much). I found a piece of cardboard to fan myself with. (Found myself wishing for a wind-up fan. . . .) Power was restored 24 hours after the storm; landline phone service about 12 hours later; internet access sometime this afternoon. Many people are still without power. 9-1-1 service was first missing, then sporadic, and is still having issues. Though the radio reminded people to treat all non-working traffic lights as 4-way stops, I noticed that some people followed that advice at the intersection that I look out on from my balcony, and others didn't (occasional screeching of brakes).

Spartana

7-5-12, 6:05pm

The thing is, most "bug out"-requiring disasters in the USA only impact a limited area, and are not a continent-wide reenactment of "The Road" with cannibals under each bridge. Simply relocating a few hundred miles will resolve most of the common situations. To that end, a wad of $20 bills, a couple of good credit cards, a full tank of gas, bank accounts with firms that have out-of-area offices, and a passport will get you set up happy. You can kick back for a few months in NY watching Broadway shows while your house is rebuilt, or jet off to Paris for some fine dining while waiting on the insurance check.

True, but having a few basic essentials such as a water filter, a little bit of plastic tarp, an emergency blanket (one of those little mylar ones), and some powerbars, dry socks, maybe a small one person tent and a flashlight can make those few days and possibily long walk much better. Just think of the Katrina people - stranded after rescue (yay Coast Guard and shame Fema) for several days. Had they a few survival supplies the wait in the hot sun, rain, bug-ridden and almost intoleable conditions would have made things better. And even if you can get to a place for help, it can often be a harsh and dangerous walk to safety. Think of being on the freeway in some terrible big city neighborhood (lets say in LA) when the big earthquake strickes. Roads are too damaged to drive, maybe even too damaged to walk out, or you may be seriously wounded and unable to move, looters and gangs maybe roaming the streets, gas leaks and fires everywhere, etc... Having a little bug-out bag (mine comes fully locked and loaded with extra clips of course :-)!) can make the difference between surviving for a few days or not.

bae

7-5-12, 6:08pm

Yup - my point is the usual "3-day" pack, and some thought out arrangements avoids the need to have bunkers full of supplies in most of the disaster circumstances we tend to run into in the US.

(And they are "magazines", not clips, unless you are shooting an M1 Garand, or storing ammo on stripper clips or somesuch!!!)

Spartana

7-5-12, 6:13pm

(And they are "magazines", not clips, unless you are shooting an M1 Garand, or storing ammo on stripper clips or somesuch!!!)

Hey, that's my bug-out gun oops..excuse me... firearm :-)! I use myt clips to hold my magazines to hold my ammo. Yes, I know it's all wrong but I'm a blonde so sue me :-)! And anyways, I will always call them clips because I can't ever remember how to spell magazines (and besides, it's shorter to type and bevity is next to Godliness).

bae

7-5-12, 6:17pm

Well played!

ApatheticNoMore

7-6-12, 3:13am

It occurs to me you don't actually need much food to survive quite awhile. I could survive on around 1500 calories a day near indefinitely since I have before for long periods of time (oh if so, I'd likely drop 20 pounds and be on the skinny side rather than the soft side - but healthy enough overall). And of course one assumes the emergency is not indefinite. A container of peanut butter has 2600 calories. And what else do you need besides calories - just protein - canned tuna, salmon, chicken, beans, lentil soup and of course the peanut butter - all are protein. Maybe a little something for vitamins - canned peaches and other fruits, green beans, corn, etc.. Maybe some fat (oils) to up the calories (although olive oil in glass containers might not survive the earthquake - all you'll have is an oil slick in the cupboard). Of course lots and lots of water as it's more necessary for survival anyway. Ha, people know that and they think they'll make food an after-thought. But, I've done a 32 and two 24 hour fasts in the past month and I've decided hunger hurts. It's hard, done ocassionaly for that long it may actually have health benefits, but geez I'd lose it going without food for any longer. You want food so bad, you can't know how bad you want unless you've done fasting (or gone hungry involuntarily due to poverty like sadly so many have I guess). Yea I'd better have some food stockpiled, food is a wonderful wonderful thing :)

You can kick back for a few months in NY watching Broadway shows while your house is rebuilt, or jet off to Paris for some fine dining while waiting on the insurance check.

You make me long for an emergency, one for which for some reason it was absolutely impossible to go to work for awhile! I'd love that! :D

Lainey

7-6-12, 10:42am

I am currently (re)reading "Parable of the Sower" by octavia e. butler. An enjoyable and well-written tale of a "slow-burn" deterioration of civilization and society in the US.

Blackdog Lin, I just finished "Parable of the Sower" and also her follow-up book, "Parable of the Talents." Yikes. Even though these books were written in 1993 and 1998 respectively, she did a great job extrapolating trends into what could happen in the 2020s and 2030s. Interesting mix of feminism, frank acceptance of sexuality, and a serviceable knowledge of guns and ammunition and basic survival skills.

Spartana

7-6-12, 3:36pm

Well played!

well for some reason it just doesn't sound right to say "I have a banana magazne for my AR-15". Ya just gotta say "clip" even if you know it's wrong ;-)!

Spartana

7-6-12, 3:44pm

I see that there is a new TV show coming on soon (fall?) called "Revolution" that is supposidly about a the end of electric power. Sort of a post-apocalyptic thing I guess sans zombies (drats!). Personally I can't imagine that us advanced, tech-savy humans wouldn't be able to pull ourselfs out of such a situation pretty darn fast. Lots of other power sources that can be used to make electricity - or substitute for it. Curious to see the show though. Everyone has bows and arrows because, apparently, no one on the planet knows how to re-load ammo (duh?)

bunnys

7-6-12, 4:20pm

bae

7-6-12, 4:57pm

Am I the only one who this has occurred to?

This is why my disaster plans involve living in an already-functioning small somewhat self-sufficient community, kicking back, eating salmon and drinking local wine, quite a cold nasty swim away from the zombie hordes :-)

bae

7-6-12, 5:04pm

Everyone has bows and arrows because, apparently, no one on the planet knows how to re-load ammo (duh?)

Or knows how to hunt with black powder and/or muzzleloading firearms, which are the required equipment in my county...

I could make black powder rifles and handguns easily in my smithy/shop using only hand tools, and I'm just a beginner.

ApatheticNoMore

7-6-12, 5:32pm

I live in Virginia (Derecho Central last Friday night) and lost my power. I was so upset by the storms and sick of losing power that I was @ Lowes on Saturday morning when they opened to be one of the people in line to buy the 3 generators they had on hand.

I would like to more adequately prepare for these situations (I think it's absurd to prepare for any long-term emergency [more than 2 weeks] as where I live that would mean government/society had collapsed and I wouldn't be interest in living under those circumstances anyway.

I'm mostly thinking earthquake or possibly greek style economic collapse. Katrina may also be a model of a very bad emergency very poorly responded to by authorities but of course a hurricane knocking out a levee isn't going to be the particular emergency that happens here (more like earthquake like I said).

Unfortunately, I confess I'm pretty off-put by the tone of these kinds of threads (here and on other sites) because they always involve the stockpiling of guns and ammo and the anticipated defending of oneself and property by shooting to kill when the inevitable hoards of roaming hoodlums come to take one's stuff.

I mean for me it's absolutely ludicrous to think that I'd engage in anything like that even if I was sitting on an arsenal.

+1 agreed, in certain situations life isn't even worth living.

I was reading a post one one site once by this guy who was trying to find out how to get (and store) vast amounts of his heart drug. The drug had to be obtained by a prescription and he was trying to prepare for life without government or commerce by storing 1 year of this drug. It was absurd. He had plenty of guns to defend his stuff but based on what he was saying, even living in his armed compound he wasn't going to live any longer than as long as his drug supply lasted. And as there would be no government how the hell was he going to get more of his heart drug?

I'm not sure that is entirely unreasonable. They are having trouble getting medicines in Greece. But the U.S. is not Greece ... right the U.S. government seeks to remain on top of the world by dominating the world through violence and conquest, but how much anyone cares about little old average citizens is questionable. The best idea is not to need any drugs at all frankly, but sometimes people do for reasons beyond their control. Stocking up should be legal.

I am NOT trying to start an argument here. But I really don't get this concept. I hear a lot of talk about standing one's ground and defending to the last man yet no consideration whether or not one would want to live in a world where this was what life had deteriorated to.

Am I the only one who this has occurred to?

I'm with you, I dont' want to live in that world. It's absolute PATHOLOGY how much time seems to be spend fantasizing about that world (ok even undesirable fantasies). I mean it's deep cultural sickness. Peer into the American collective unconscious, it's the abyss, that place is dark! The shadows have shadows. And understand I am not taking on self-defense per se, I am taking on how often this fantasy of having to kill everyone because they are all out to get you comes up. That is pathology. The difference between that fantasy and self-defense under a normal scenario (house is broken into say) is like the difference between having sex with someone who gets a heart attack in the act, and scouring the graveyard for newly buried bodies to dig up and perform necrophilia with.

RosieTR

7-7-12, 12:29am

Of course lots and lots of water as it's more necessary for survival anyway. Ha, people know that and they think they'll make food an after-thought. But, I've done a 32 and two 24 hour fasts in the past month and I've decided hunger hurts. It's hard, done ocassionaly for that long it may actually have health benefits, but geez I'd lose it going without food for any longer. You want food so bad, you can't know how bad you want unless you've done fasting (or gone hungry involuntarily due to poverty like sadly so many have I guess). Yea I'd better have some food stockpiled, food is a wonderful wonderful thing :)

You make me long for an emergency, one for which for some reason it was absolutely impossible to go to work for awhile! I'd love that! :D

I always find those CDC (or other govt agency) things extolling stocking up on water fascinating. If you're at home for an extended period, fine. If you have to evacuate, such as for an earthquake or something, then carrying 1 gallon of water per person per day is ludicrous. Unless you're in a no kidding desert, coffee filters plus either pills or a water filter would be a much better choice. As for food, yeah you don't necessicarily need it for a few days but if you're already stressed and having to make an effort, it really helps rational thinking to have something to eat. IMO granola bars for me are one of the best things b/c they have a good ratio of carb:protein, are light and small and fairly quick to eat.
As for different possible disasters, I can think of major ones for every region of the country but how likely they would be is a question. The one thing I sort of worry about that's not too unlikely but would require "bug in" for a long time is a major epidemic. If we really had Nasty Flu of some sort that was very contagious and very high mortality, it's possible you'd be quarantined for weeks or months. I'm not certain what other sort of emergency would lead to needing years' worth of stuff, at which point yes, you'd need to defend it (if you could!) or just give up. However, eventually ammo runs out so how would you plan for how much of that you'll need? And on and on.

flowerseverywhere

7-7-12, 2:36pm

thank you for the book recommendation, Bae. "A Paradise made in Hell" is truly fascinating. I especially was interested in the parts about Katrina, about how the rumors of rape, looting and murder on the streets was perpetrated by the officials, and how many people came in boats from very far away to rescue people while the officials wrung their hands or looked the other way.

If I had a gun I would be way more likely to shoot myself than anyone else or have the weapon taken away by someone much stronger. I don't think I could shoot anyone to tell you the truth.

We are sticking with a few weeks of water and food in the house because as I originally posted, I am most concerned for the short term. We do keep the cars at least half full of gas, if an ice storm was forecast for instance I would stock up a little more. We also make sure we can heat something up as well as I encourage others to do the same, but don't have the stock piling mentality.

bunnys

7-7-12, 4:04pm

I'm mostly thinking earthquake or possibly greek style economic collapse.

Don't underestimate the Greek situation. It is REALLY bad there. "Hello. Your pay is being cut 20% today." Cut to 2 weeks later. "We're only going to need you to work 25 hours per week from now on" and on and on stuff like that. The unemployment is so bad there is NO WAY someone could get an additional job. Remember that guy that committed suicide in a square in Athens a couple months ago and left that note in his pocket explaining that he couldn't live any longer in that dire situation with all the austerity cuts (health care, transportation and other public services, etc.) To prepare for that someone would have to have all debt (including mortgage) paid off and a big pile of money in the bank (or under their mattress.)

I agree with flowerseverywhere. I don't live somewhere like Katrina where there'd be a sudden flood and I'd be cut off. The worst thing that could really happen here would be an ice storm that would cut my power for a few weeks or a thunderstorm that could also cut power--like happened this week. Usually (knock wood) when I lose power it's back on in a few days because I live close to a secondary road within the city limits and I think the way my house is wired (direction it comes from) is such that it's pretty quickly fixed. But it's still a drag to be out 5 days. And I always have a full fridge (bc I make all my food and have a weird diet) and can't afford to lose all its contents 2x per year. Glad I got that generator. I usually have a pretty fully stocked pantry as well. When we had Hurricane Isabel 10 years ago we actually lost water. The water my nephew had filled the tubs with all ran out by the morning so I spent the entire day running around looking for water to flush the toilet with. It was HORRIBLY stressful. I should probably work on figuring out how to fix that problem before we get too far into the summer.

Next winter when that threats of storms start I will pay attention to the weather and if something is predicted I'll stock up on gas and food. I have a fireplace and wood but I'm also going to get a couple portable heaters as well.

I wonder if there's something you can buy to siphon gas... I could "store" the gas for my generator in the car's gas tank.

Spartana

7-7-12, 4:54pm

I Unfortunately, I confess I'm pretty off-put by the tone of these kinds of threads (here and on other sites) because they always involve the stockpiling of guns and ammo and the anticipated defending of oneself and property by shooting to kill when the inevitable hoards of roaming hoodlums come to take one's stuff.

I mean for me it's absolutely ludicrous to think that I'd engage in anything like that even if I was sitting on an arsenal.

consideration whether or not one would want to live in a world where this was what life had deteriorated to.

Am I the only one who this has occurred to?

There is a HUGE difference between defending your life, property and the lives of your family and neighbors, and "shooting to kill" in some random way. And yes, I would want to live in a world that deteriorated that badly. I would NOT want to die. I would feel it's my moral obligation as a human being to stick around during the tough times to try to restore and revive some level of civilization, peace, comfort and prosperity for the future of the human race. While I am doubtful things would ever get THAT bad, I would not be one to turn tail and run and hide because times were tough and my personal comfort level was not the way it was in the past (probably why I loved being in the Coast Guard so much!). I'll be there to help those who need help, and to try to make the world a better place. To do less is cowardly IMHO.

bunnys

7-7-12, 6:36pm

There is a HUGE difference between defending your life, property and the lives of your family and neighbors, and "shooting to kill" in some random way. And yes, I would want to live in a world that deteriorated that badly. I would NOT want to die. I would feel it's my moral obligation as a human being to stick around during the tough times to try to restore and revive some level of civilization, peace, comfort and prosperity for the future of the human race. While I am doubtful things would ever get THAT bad, I would not be one to turn tail and run and hide because times were tough and my personal comfort level was not the way it was in the past (probably why I loved being in the Coast Guard so much!). I'll be there to help those who need help, and to try to make the world a better place. To do less is cowardly IMHO.

I'm not offended by your response even though you've called me and all others who feel like me cowards--despite having never met me. I can assure you, you are deluding yourself if you think my reason for not wanting to live in a post-apocalyptic world has anything to do with not having access to air conditioning, regular manicures and pizza delivery.

Shooting your fellow man (regardless of the rationale [however convoluted] behind it) does not sound very helpful to me. And let's remember, these people coming after your stuff are not morally bankrupt. They're simply desperate, hungry people trying to scrounge for resources to feed their families. In my OP, I NEVER used the word "random." Are you saying that if you were in that circumstance and you had to shoot it wouldn't be "to kill?" I know virtually nothing about firearms but I do know that if you're not prepared to shoot to kill, you're likely to get killed yourself.

I propose that it's possible that the definition of the the ideal state of life on Earth is NOT contingent upon people living and being civilized upon it. In fact, I suggest that (given our history as a species on this planet) the planet and all other life forms upon it would be much better off if we ceased to exist. I know this idea is absolutely freaking incomprehensible to MANY people. I suggest these people are more egocentric than is good for the remainder of species (flora and fauna) on the planet. Yes, we're all egocentric. That's what gives us the drive to survive. But that doesn't mean that's a good thing for anything beyond our own individual existences.

PS--Despite your claim, I don't think your opinion is humble at all.

bae

7-7-12, 7:12pm

Shooting your fellow man (regardless of the rationale [however convoluted] behind it) does not sound very helpful to me.

Actually, it can be quite helpful at times. It can keep the evil from imposing their will on the good.

And let's remember, these people coming after your stuff are not morally bankrupt. They're simply desperate, hungry people trying to scrounge for resources to feed their families.

Actually, generally they *are* morally bankrupt at the point where they offer to use force or fraud to take things from you against your will. It is important to understand this.

Spartana

7-9-12, 4:35pm

I'm not offended by your response even though you've called me and all others who feel like me cowards--despite having never met me. I can assure you, you are deluding yourself if you think my reason for not wanting to live in a post-apocalyptic world has anything to do with not having access to air conditioning, regular manicures and pizza delivery.

Shooting your fellow man (regardless of the rationale [however convoluted] behind it) does not sound very helpful to me. And let's remember, these people coming after your stuff are not morally bankrupt. They're simply desperate, hungry people trying to scrounge for resources to feed their families. In my OP, I NEVER used the word "random." Are you saying that if you were in that circumstance and you had to shoot it wouldn't be "to kill?" I know virtually nothing about firearms but I do know that if you're not prepared to shoot to kill, you're likely to get killed yourself.

I propose that it's possible that the definition of the the ideal state of life on Earth is NOT contingent upon people living and being civilized upon it. In fact, I suggest that (given our history as a species on this planet) the planet and all other life forms upon it would be much better off if we ceased to exist. I know this idea is absolutely freaking incomprehensible to MANY people. I suggest these people are more egocentric than is good for the remainder of species (flora and fauna) on the planet. Yes, we're all egocentric. That's what gives us the drive to survive. But that doesn't mean that's a good thing for anything beyond our own individual existences.

PS--Despite your claim, I don't think your opinion is humble at all.

I'm very sorry Bunnys if I offended you, or anyone else here, by my post. I certainly didn't intend too. The point I was trying to make is that I feel all people, irregarless of age, gender, ability, or intelligence, has something to give to others in time of need. Some skill, talent, or gift that may not only comfort someone else, but may make the difference between life and death in a disaster. Be it providing food, water, comfort and shelter for those who have lost everything, medical care for the sick and injured, protection from harm for those who can't protect themselves, or rebuilding the things that were lost. People are needed for all of that to insure that other can survive, and we as a society thrive. And the greater the disaster and devastation, the wider ranging, longer lasting, and mnore disruptive to the infra structure and social structure, the greater the hardships for people, then the greater the need for those people to be there to help others because outside aid and protection may be long in coming - if it comes at all. Because if the medical people, engineer, scientists, mechanics, people who can grow food and tend animals, old ladies who can watch the kids or prepare the meals - or anyone who can contibute sometyhing, anything, to others - killed themselves, or ran away to hid under a rock or hunkered down in their survival bunkers, then the rest of us are sunk. So yes, I do feel very strongly that we each have a moral obligation to find it within ourselves to continue on no matter what. because if even one of us chooses to commit suicidce, then others will suffer for our absence, and possibily diie. To me, someone who can step away from their own misery, loss, fear, dispair and hopelessness to aid others even in the face of their own danger and discomfort is the very definition of courage...and humanity.

Yes sappy and melodramatic I know, but it's truelly how I feel.

As for your comments in this thread about using firearms, I really didn't understand what you meant so can't answer that. But I will say that for me (and I am probably speaking for others on this board like Bae and Alan) my having firearms is not about doing violence or making others submissive to me by force or to take away what little they have. It's to provide protection to myself, my loved ones and, once they are safe, to anyone else who I can help protect from harm even if it meant great danger and hardship to myself - even my own death. I feel that those who have the means and ability (and the trsining and experience) to protect others by any means possible, have a moral obligation to do so. And while you say you may not be able to hurt or kill someone, I bet that if you saw a helpless child being accosted or an young girl being assuloted or raped, you would do absolutely whatever was you could to stop that from happening - with or without a weapon. I would also and beive that most people feel the same. Again... just my humble opinion :laff::laff:

To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world. - Anon.

bae

7-9-12, 4:42pm

But I will say that for me (and I am probably speaking for others on this board like Bae and Alan) my having firearms is not to make other submissive to me or to take away what little they have.

Indeed. I am a pacifist, of sorts, and study the ways of violence so that I hopefully will not have to use them.

I feel that those who have the means and ability to protect others by any means possible, have a moral obligation to do so.

I believe I have a moral duty to render aid to others, to the extent that doing so does not sacrifice something of greater moral significance. And as well, I believe I have a duty to be as able to provide that aid as I can manage.

Spartana

7-10-12, 12:44pm

Indeed. I am a pacifist, of sorts, and study the ways of violence so that I hopefully will not have to use them.

I believe I have a moral duty to render aid to others, to the extent that doing so does not sacrifice something of greater moral significance. And as well, I believe I have a duty to be as able to provide that aid as I can manage.

Me too. But while I would hope that everyone in the world would be kind and gentle and supportive of each other in times of need, I know that won't be the case because it isn't the case now. i look at the atrocities done to others in the past as well as now - the Syrias, Bosnias, Darfur, the genocides, the Holocausts, etc... - due to nothing more than greed and power - not a need to survive. And I imagine that will be the case for many in some long term disaster where law enforcemnet and military are stretched too thin or non-existant. I can't imagine that the many heavily armed violent street and biker gangs and drug cartel members will put down their weapons and put on overalls to grub in the dirt growing tomatoes. And while I'm not equipted like you, who has the means and ability to house, feed and protect a large number of people in your community, I can't do much but if needed would do my best. I personally really don't believe anything like that will ever happen - at least not in our lifetimes. I don't there will be a deadly meteor strike or nuclear war or even a breakdown of the worlds financial, infra or social structure. But even a some local disaster - or several at once - that lasts long enough or does enough devastation can cause some people to act in very horrific ways - just others will act in extremely honorable ways.

Mrs-M

7-10-12, 1:02pm

Originally posted by Bunnys.
Unfortunately, I confess I'm pretty off-put by the tone of these kinds of threads (here and on other sites) because they always involve the stockpiling of guns and ammo and the anticipated defending of oneself and property by shooting to kill when the inevitable hoards of roaming hoodlums come to take one's stuff.Yes indeed, I, too, find it incredibly off-putting, which is why I avoid getting involved with these sorts of discussions. Seems "killing", is foremost (at the top) with so many entries, and then we all wonder why our world is so screwed up.

flowerseverywhere

7-10-12, 2:47pm

Yes indeed, I, too, find it incredibly off-putting, which is why I avoid getting involved with these sorts of discussions. Seems "killing", is foremost (at the top) with so many entries, and then we all wonder why our world is so screwed up.

I could not agree more. Sensibly storing a few weeks worth of drinking water, some canned soup etc. is a far cry from the "doomsday prepper" mentality.

and name calling or labeling is almost sure to end up badly.

awakenedsoul

7-10-12, 4:09pm

I can see both sides. I grew up in a beautiful neighborhood in the Bay Area, so I was very fotunate. Now that I live in an area with a drug cartel (next door,) and gang members, I totally see why people have guns. I don't have one, and I don't have the skills to use one, but I get it. I wasn't exposed to people like this until now. Their networks are what really is mind blowing. The organization, loyalty, and how slick they are is very intense. I notice that Spartana is in LA, too, and we have some serious problems here will illegal immigration, crime, and borders. Fortunately, my German shepherds are bred for that.

I love stockpiling because it gives me the illusion of control, (smile,) a cushion of food and water, and I like the organization of it. When I was unemployed as a dancer, there were times when I just ate popcorn all week to that I could still take dance classes. Having the homestead is very satisfying to me and it's a new and exciting skill. I have PLENTY of food now, and enough to share with my neighbors.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I didn't interpret Spartana's post as calling anyone else a coward. Spartana always sounds like a free spirit to me. She marches to the beat of her own drum.

I killed a rooster once (for food,) and it totally traumatized me. But, I do have a Mama Bear side that I've had to tap into when pushed around. I scared a pit bull once by yelling at him! Same thing with crooks. I guess you'd say it's my Judge Judy side. It's really helped me when dealing with unscrupulous people. I've also developed the ability to spot an abuser and walk away.

Spartana

7-10-12, 4:23pm

I didn't interpret Spartana's post as calling anyone else a coward.

Again I apoligize to anyone who took my post wrong. I should have used a different phrasing as I wasn't intending to call anyone a coward - and shouldn't have - or moralized about anyones behavior but my own. Won't do that again.

puglogic

7-11-12, 6:05pm

I understand your point of view perfectly, Spartana. (I guess I'm used to reading you by now, and it didn't occur to me to take offense) In an ugly world, it's good to have certain skills even if you hope never to have to use them. And there's a place in all of this for champions, for idealists, and everything in between.

I raise great garlic and tomatoes. I know how to squeeze a kilowatt of energy for all it's worth. I am great with hand tools, and have a strong back. I'm valued in my community. I'm a pacifist, and some would call me a liberal.

And I'm a good shot.

I don't see a conflict there. If my life/limb/family/friends are physically threatened by an unreasonable person, I would resist with anything at hand. I don't think that scenario is too likely. Unless someone wants to eat me, I think they'd be more likely to be after my "stuff" than after me.

If they want my lawn mower, my TV, my family heirlooms, well, I won't like it, but I won't shoot them, either. Stuff doesn't matter. People matter.

I hope none of this comes to pass. In fact, especially where I live, I have faith that people will come together, not apart, in any big crisis. But I too am one of those "trust in god but keep your powder dry" people.

puglogic

7-11-12, 6:14pm

p.s. awakenedsoul: My baggage includes a rooster-killing trauma of my own! :)

bae

7-11-12, 7:19pm

I hope none of this comes to pass. In fact, especially where I live, I have faith that people will come together, not apart, in any big crisis. But I too am one of those "trust in god but keep your powder dry" people.

And one of the best ways to be prepared for an emergency is to work with your community *ahead of time* figuring out what you are going to do in the likely situations.

Here's what we did here recently:

Here in the Puget Sound area, there is a set of exercises in progress to test and develop the capabilities of local, state, federal, tribal, and private groups to respond to a large-scale earthquake.

Today, my little airport on this wee remote island had its part in the drill. We'd been planning for months, because this seemingly-minor drill exceeded the then-existing capabilities of our airstrip and cargo handling.

But today, two Chinook CH-47s arrived, operated by some very nice Army Reserve guys out of Lewis-McChord, loaded with mock emergency supplies, which we then offloaded and moved to a distribution center on-island. After which, we treated them to a nice hamburger cookout, and sent them back down towards the mainland. They gave us a tour of their helicopters, which were about as old as I am.

The team gathers. Port commission, fire, sheriff, the contractor who owns a forklift, the emergency services guy, and so on:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dQ4WOqaY0m8/T9kT0S1-AAI/AAAAAAAAFog/bDUwKUVZeKE/s640/Awesomized.jpg

In they come (and look at the concern about whether the runway will handle them :-) ):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e71iePfZ02Y/T9kTvJwJqfI/AAAAAAAAFoA/W0L9JBf4KWA/s640/Awesomized.jpg

(The guy on the bicycle did the paving....)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0wcSFomFZaQ/T9kTg5RWTeI/AAAAAAAAFmw/9pXr0y7hvbw/s640/Awesomized.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8CfjlSNH_NA/T9kTGoHV_wI/AAAAAAAAFlA/crtcyREDGN8/s640/Awesomized.jpg

Yes! The forklift fits!

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VmzoeshcQ2U/T9kS50eRJ2I/AAAAAAAAFkM/Gx7Mz5VvOmg/s640/Awesomized.jpg

My buddy getting off the copter here had been on them in Vietnam. He said this one was "much cleaner":

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HUzRr8J_X1U/T9kS0vvZszI/AAAAAAAAFj0/Yb087IbZR_k/s640/Awesomized.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BkSbJK5Rblo/T9kSsLC5PmI/AAAAAAAAFjU/8PpSWVyH5xQ/s640/Awesomized.jpg

I loved this: they can carry extra fuel for the helicopter as pallet-sized loads inside:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-H3hlRYYdDV0/T9kSmnp1OFI/AAAAAAAAFjE/zfjfSiXqIss/s720/Awesomized.jpg

They wouldn't let me fly it, it doesn't look so hard...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-QZjFsvfYDKA/T9kSjXYJ_LI/AAAAAAAAFi0/4hp8RquvATg/s640/Awesomized.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CltMlBE6P5E/T9kShgNIHTI/AAAAAAAAFis/sxvn9Z0N9Rg/s640/Awesomized.jpg