View Full Version : Santorum is Out
It appears the most conservative factions in the GOP don't have quite enough steam to get a candidate over the top. No real surprise there. It will be interesting to see where his delegates land. I would guess supporting Mr. Romney would be a bit of a bitter pill for alot of them.
My generally quite proper friend opined that he should not let the door hit his "prissy ass" as leaves. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/remake/haha.gif
A CBC viewer comment stated that Santorum is 'suspending' his campaign since that will enable him to continue to receive donations and pay down his debts. If he withdrew or resigned, he could no longer receive any funds. Is this how it works or is the comment misinformed?
I find his languaging very interesting. Not quitting, but "suspending." And "not giving up the fight," whatever that means. This isn't a partisan thing -- I'd find a democrat equally amusing in the same situation. Are you leaving the race, or aren't you? LOL Razz, that sheds a bit of light on the first part, for sure. If he wants to pay down his debts and people are informed & willing to help him with that, more power to him. I am at heart an SLNer, after all, and personal debt is anathema no matter whose it is.
My generally quite proper friend opined that he should not let the door hit his "prissy ass" as leaves. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/remake/haha.gif
Such drollery aside, he had to go. He kept on and on about the sanctity of life, the importance of family, individual responsibility and a transcendent purpose to human existence. Such throwbacks have no place in American politics.
goldensmom
4-11-12, 8:57am
Such drollery aside, he had to go. He kept on and on about the sanctity of life, the importance of family, individual responsibility and a transcendent purpose to human existence. Such throwbacks have no place in American politics.
LDAHL, if you believe, as you stated, that an issue such as individual responsibility is a throwback and has no place in American politics, who should be responsible? What do you believe should comprise American politics?
I LOVED seeing him go off on the twirpy reporter recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPCQOaxYqAU
His daughter's reaction is classic.
And to Santorum's defense, (I can't find the clip of the speech prior to the outburst online), but I saw it on TV and he was speaking of Romney in terms of healthcare in that particular speech he was being questioned about.
I don't care what I think about any of these guys/gals (most of whom I would not vote for anything beyond class president), could you imagine getting up every morning and having to endure what Santorum so aptly labeled as 'BS'?
A CBC viewer comment stated that Santorum is 'suspending' his campaign since that will enable him to continue to receive donations and pay down his debts. If he withdrew or resigned, he could no longer receive any funds. Is this how it works or is the comment misinformed?
As I understand the process that is correct. I believe the RNC could pay down Mr. Santorum's debt regardless of his campaign status, but there's not a lot of incentive for them to do that, especially if the campaign is completely lifeless. He did get a fair amount of support from social conservatives and there are delegates at stake so I think the surviving candidates will be working hard to court them. The RNC does not want to alienate that group. It's kind of an interesting demographic. Social conservatives really don't have anywhere but the Republican party to go, but from what I've read the worry in the GOP leadership is that they will just stay home in November rather than support a candidate that they view as too liberal. I find that interesting because off all the people I know that are part of that group they are the ones who quite proudly announce that they have NEVER missed voting in an election. It's going to be an interesting summer.
LDAHL, if you believe, as you stated, that an issue such as individual responsibility is a throwback and has no place in American politics, who should be responsible? What do you believe should comprise American politics?
In the age of Obama, personal responsibility (much like personal property) is an outmoded concept. We will rely on a compassionate and disinterested political elite to determine and fulfill our needs, and to protect us from our inability to see our true best interests. No longer will we be crippled by the Judeo-Christian tradition, unruly market capitalism or unthinking adherence to an outdated constitutionalism. Those barbaric relics will be swept away by a new enlightenment that understands our lives are best governed by a well-credentialed technocracy.
In the age of Obama, personal responsibility (much like personal property) is an outmoded concept. We will rely on a compassionate and disinterested political elite to determine and fulfill our needs, and to protect us from our inability to see our true best interests. No longer will we be crippled by the Judeo-Christian tradition, unruly market capitalism or unthinking adherence to an outdated constitutionalism. Those barbaric relics will be swept away by a new enlightenment that understands our lives are best governed by a well-credentialed technocracy.
Baseless hyperbole aside, i don't see how a draconian anti-contraceptive stance (for example) squares with allowing women, particularly, to determine their "true best interests."
Baseless hyperbole aside, i don't see how a draconian anti-contraceptive stance (for example) squares with allowing women, particularly, to determine their "true best interests."
Speaking of hyperbole, is there any reason to believe that a "draconian anti-contraceptive stance" was part of his platform?
Speaking of hyperbole, is there any reason to believe that a "draconian anti-contraceptive stance" was part of his platform?
There is if you believe that failure to subsidize is tantamount to repression.
Rick Santorum is on the record opining that not only do individual states have the right to ban birth control, but that contraception itself is wrong and he would take it on as president:
“One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country…. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.” (italics mine)
His position is more than clear.
In the age of Obama, personal responsibility (much like personal property) is an outmoded concept. We will rely on a compassionate and disinterested political elite to determine and fulfill our needs, and to protect us from our inability to see our true best interests. No longer will we be crippled by the Judeo-Christian tradition, unruly market capitalism or unthinking adherence to an outdated constitutionalism. Those barbaric relics will be swept away by a new enlightenment that understands our lives are best governed by a well-credentialed technocracy.
I think if there were a dictionary listing for "baseless hyperbole," this quote might easily be given as a fine example. Pardon me while I go lie in a ditch in front of my home and wait for the heathen technocratic government to come save me. :doh:
I think if there were a dictionary listing for "baseless hyperbole," this quote might easily be given as a fine example. Pardon me while I go lie in a ditch in front of my home and wait for the heathen technocratic government to come save me. :doh:
OK. I'll be in my bunker clinging to my guns and religion and waiting for the same.
My generally quite proper friend opined that he should not let the door hit his "prissy ass" as leaves. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/remake/haha.gif
:D :D :D And I'm from Pennsylvania!
In the age of Obama, personal responsibility (much like personal property) is an outmoded concept. We will rely on a compassionate and disinterested political elite to determine and fulfill our needs, and to protect us from our inability to see our true best interests. No longer will we be crippled by the Judeo-Christian tradition, unruly market capitalism or unthinking adherence to an outdated constitutionalism. Those barbaric relics will be swept away by a new enlightenment that understands our lives are best governed by a well-credentialed technocracy.
Except, of course, where health care is concerned. Then we don't need no stinking personal responsibility. I guess the President' doesn't get his proper dues for trying to get the whole country to accept personal responsibility for their health care which of course they WILL need and expect the emergency room to provide for free.
Funny how that personal responsibility goes out the window for something that is real instead of just a campaign slogan.
And how exactly is personal property and outmoded concept under Obama? Do you care to elaborate on that or are you just 'throwing spaghetti' at the wall to see if anything sticks?
The Judeo-Christian tradition? Which one would that be? Which one? Name three, or two, or how about one that is 'violated'. And then name one 'tradition' that isn't a tenant of any successful, modern society, whatever religion.
When I spoke of verbal diarrhea, this is kind of what I had in mind.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-12, 12:36am
Mostly the political elite is not disinterested. With the kind of lobbying money sloshing into politicians coffers, no hold bars now as all restraints have been removed, the politicians are what you'd call INTERESTED, as in the opposite of disinterested. Well credentialed in various disciplines (even technology ones in some cases - although not generally) they may be - they may hold all the right degrees. But that is pretty irrelevant as it has nothing to do with MOTIVES which is what matters. They are sold to the highest bidder, thus the true alegience is neither science nor technology, as imperfect as those may be, but rather money, profit, greed.
As for personal responsibity, the personal responsibility the average person is asked to take on these days seems in many ways at the limits of if not beyond their capacity. I'm not talking basic morality. I'm talking things that require a very sizable knowledge. Like the average person is now entirely responsible for their retirement say, but do they actually have the capacity, the vast knowledge of finances that would actually be needed to do this? Ha, they put it in index funds and cross their fingers :) There is some stretching, ambiguation of the concept of personality morality when it's expanded beyond say: don't steal, don't kill, don't cheat on your spouse (simple rules for simple societies) to .... anticipate all contigencies, know at 18 exactly what fields will be in demand when you graduate, plan your retirement 30 years out perfectly.
I'm really not sure what is meant by personal property being outmoded, it's always been part social convention. But to the extent that this is about actual politics possible reference to something like the National Defense Resources Perparedness Executive Order. Fair enough, the power granted to government there seems absolutely sweeping. But I'm not entirely sure how new it is, since similar laws have existed before (I mean that statement directly, I'm not sure what is new, I don't spend all my time researching laws, and I don't just accept nakedly partisan political spin as how I should interpret them).
Two big lies I think are:
1) That much of anything started with Obama. Civil liberties degradation etc. did not start with Obama, not after 8 years of Bush. Gotten worse under Obama ... yes on several fronts ... but did not start with.
2) That much that was bad with Bush ended under Obama, very little did, certainly civil liberties and war issues are as bad as ever. Though since I can't keep track of everything I'm sure a few things can be found that are slightly improved (even Obama might throw an ocassional bone to the base, though it is probably a pidgeon bone :))
We generally like each other here, and yet the overall schisms of the country sneak in to our exchanges...
how is it possible to stop being snipey and just share our stances? I long for civility. I long for heart based, respectful exchanges.
Mostly the political elite is not disinterested. With the kind of lobbying money sloshing into politicians coffers, no hold bars now as all restraints have been removed, the politicians are what you'd call INTERESTED, as in the opposite of disinterested. Well credentialed in various disciplines (even technology ones in some cases - although not generally) they may be - they may hold all the right degrees. But that is pretty irrelevant as it has nothing to do with MOTIVES which is what matters. They are sold to the highest bidder, thus the true alegience is neither science nor technology, as imperfect as those may be, but rather money, profit, greed.
As for personal responsibity, the personal responsibility the average person is asked to take on these days seems in many ways at the limits of if not beyond their capacity. I'm not talking basic morality. I'm talking things that require a very sizable knowledge. Like the average person is now entirely responsible for their retirement say, but do they actually have the capacity, the vast knowledge of finances that would actually be needed to do this? Ha, they put it in index funds and cross their fingers :) There is some stretching, ambiguation of the concept of personality morality when it's expanded beyond say: don't steal, don't kill, don't cheat on your spouse (simple rules for simple societies) to .... anticipate all contigencies, know at 18 exactly what fields will be in demand when you graduate, plan your retirement 30 years out perfectly.
I'm really not sure what is meant by personal property being outmoded, it's always been part social convention. But to the extent that this is about actual politics possible reference to something like the National Defense Resources Perparedness Executive Order. Fair enough, the power granted to government there seems absolutely sweeping. But I'm not entirely sure how new it is, since similar laws have existed before (I mean that statement directly, I'm not sure what is new, I don't spend all my time researching laws, and I don't just accept nakedly partisan political spin as how I should interpret them).
Two big lies I think are:
1) That much of anything started with Obama. Civil liberties degradation etc. did not start with Obama, not after 8 years of Bush. Gotten worse under Obama ... yes on several fronts ... but did not start with.
2) That much that was bad with Bush ended under Obama, very little did, certainly civil liberties and war issues are as bad as ever. Though since I can't keep track of everything I'm sure a few things can be found that are slightly improved (even Obama might throw an occasional bone to the base, though it is probably a pidgeon bone :))
Boy you're right. Money has always played a large part of politics, but the 'corporations are people' just fast tracked it to the stratosphere.
*science fiction future: everyone will belong to a group or union in order to gain at least some voice. Like AARP or Teachers Union, except right from the start. Everyone will be part of some sort of faction, and identified by that.
No, stuff didn't start with Obama or end with Bush, true that. But at least Obama is trying with the weight of some intellect behind him. I'm not saying Bush was a stupid man, but he was an exceedingly ordinary, average man. Not the kind of man we want holding the highest, most complicated and nuanced office in the world. That's why the country just spiraled into free fall as his term was ending. He was so relieved to just hand the mess over to someone else, anyone else, he didn't care. Obama inherited a huge mess so twisted and broken, most don't even realize how very close we came to actually going over the cliff. Completely. The republicans realize, at least the smart ones in congress, and they knew he would spend his entire first term just saving our butts. What they didn't count on was him actually achieving anything else (even thought they tried their hardest to prevent that) He has been a good President and a successful President, despite the overwhelming problems. That just pisses the republicans off.
And the affordable care act is a good start for the country, but they don't want to admit that too. But just keep in mind, the republicans who want him to fail, and want to take away the benefits that have started to happen, like being able to keep our young adult kids on our insurance till 26, are taking those benefits away from republicans too. I"m guessing republicans are able to breath a little sigh of relief for their young adult kids too.
And all those seniors that Paul Ryan wants to give vouchers to to go out and buy health insurance on the open market, are probably at least half republican. And seniors vote.
Well this thread is about Santorum. It really was time for him to quit, although I was hoping he would stay in. He's dead wrong about most everything, but he seems a decent family man and to continue to put his family through this wasn't right. Glad he recognized that.
Now Gingrich, I hope that freak train rolls all the way to November, but I don't see that happening.;) He is just so oblivious to absolutely everything except his incredible brilliance, it's just so entertaining.
iris lily
4-12-12, 11:13am
We generally like each other here, and yet the overall schisms of the country sneak in to our exchanges...
how is it possible to stop being snipey and just share our stances? I long for civility. I long for heart based, respectful exchanges.
See that's where you and I are different. I was laughing over some posts from both "sides" of the political discourse.
RF, I understand, but judgmental extremists (right, left, religious, whatever) exist everywhere, and it seems impossible to have any sort of respectful conversation with them. They see the world in black and white terms: If you agree with them, you're good. If you don't, you're an idiot. I get really weary of their tiresome barking in society, as it serves no useful purpose in terms of bettering our collective lives, but only seem to exist to prove themselves right.
I'm thankful there only seem to be a few here on SLN that are incapable of seeing any point of view except their own. I think for the most part our conversations on SLN -- even the political ones -- are open, useful, cooperative and fun, involving some pretty darned funny, smart people.
As for personal responsibity, the personal responsibility the average person is asked to take on these days seems in many ways at the limits of if not beyond their capacity.
An interesting position ANM, but not sure I can agree with it. True, there are some dividing lines over which it becomes difficult to be responsible as an individual, but there is also a lot that can be done that has simply fallen out of favor for various reasons. For example, when it comes to healthcare, or more specifically healthcare insurance, there are limited options presented to me as an individual so my desire to act responsibly may have to take a back seat to what is available. OTOH, I have the complete and absolute ability to be responsible for my health up to the point where things are beyond my control (like cancer, for example). I don't have to be a doctor to know that pizza six nights a week is not wise. Or that an exercise regimen as simple as walking 3x a week will improve my health. It is a VERY small percentage of the population that can not take responsibility for their actions at that level. I assure you that if everyone who was able did then the larger problems would be much less complex and much cheaper to solve.
I'm thankful there only seem to be a few here on SLN that are incapable of seeing any point of view except their own. I think for the most part our conversations on SLN -- even the political ones -- are open, useful, cooperative and fun, involving some pretty darned funny, smart people.
Nicely done puglogic, I completely agree.
See that's where you and I are different. I was laughing over some posts from both "sides" of the political discourse.
Actually, I often do too, but on really grumpy days, I'm sad about the meanness. I think it's been that kinda week.
OK. I'll be in my bunker clinging to my guns and religion and waiting for the same.
Don't forget your tin foil hat ;-)!
I for one am saddened that Santorum is out. As an Obama supporter, I believe that Romney has a much greater chance of winning votes with the "on-the-fence" crowd then Santorum ever did. Newt and Paul? Well... lets just say I'm not losing sleep over their chances of defeating Obama :-)!
I don't have to be a doctor to know that pizza six nights a week is not wise. Or that an exercise regimen as simple as walking 3x a week will improve my health. It is a VERY small percentage of the population that can not take responsibility for their actions at that level. I assure you that if everyone who was able did then the larger problems would be much less complex and much cheaper to solve.
No doubt, there are many (the majority?) who are not taking personal responsibility for their health, a massive pet peeve of mine -- but I don't blame that on any particular administration. I think everyone's trying to crack that nut: How do we all reward those who take responsibility, while avoiding shouldering fiscal responsibility for those who don't, without that messy business of deciding who tried hard enough, who ate too much pizza, who simply had genetically high blood pressure, whose diabetes was caused by not enough exercise and whose wasn't, etc. There are no easy answers once you leave the black-and-white camp. (But wouldn't it be great if someone came up with something?)
In fact, I would be very unpopular as dictator because I'd tie health insurance premiums to individual willingness to TAKE personal responsibility for their own health. The more you're willing to do to stay healthy, the less you pay, and the converse would be true as well. That's not possible in our current system of government, something about that pesky, whatsitcalled? Constitution? How do you legislate personal behaviors in a society built on "you can't tell me what to do!"
I do like my healthcare provider for its emphasis on prevention. I can take free fitness classes, smoking cessation classes, even tai chi, yoga, qi gong, etc. What I wish, of course, is that I also got some kind of premium credit for busting my butt to stay in shape!!! I suppose I do...it's called "more years." Seems anticlimactic ;)
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