View Full Version : Renting makes it hard to live simple...
Tussiemussies
4-21-12, 10:55pm
We'be always lived in our own home where little by little I had incorporated SL lifestyle choices into where we were living. We will have lived in this rental for four years this coming fall and for me I have found it to be such a detriment to the SL lifestyle I had put together that I'm really looking forward to moving into our own place again. The things I am not able to do here are:
Hang out laundry
Have a veggie garden -- there is no place to container garden
Do any composting --although I wasn't doing this before I'm now ready to purchase a barrel or two
Use plastic bowl covers that I would wash hang on a little clothesline that was extractbile over the sink
Start my own seeds for a garden
I guess from typing this out it makes me realize that spring and summer are the times I am more at a loss...I really like this house but will be glad to be able to do the things I feel are important when we get our own home...
A lot of that can be done at a near-by community garden, if you can find one.
I used to live in a condo where the HOA would not allow me to do those things in our little patio/yard, so I got creative.
First, the local community garden would allow me to compost. I would keep my compost in a bucket and take it to the pile 2x a week. I kept the bucket in the house under the sink, and it wasn't a problem. I could have done Bokashi too, but I didn't know about it then.
Second, I would do seedlings for the community garden in the window. I was lucky that I had a big window that I could put a table in front of (pretty narrow table) that I got at good will for next to nothing. I painted the legs and then put a table cloth over it, and then I would use all kinds of old china and silver as the bases for the little seedlings and small plants that I would create.
I also had a friend who had a garden, so I was allowed to take seedlings there, too, and garden with her.
Third, I would line-dry in my house in front of my largest window (facing south), which is something the HOA had no control over. It was our big sliding glass door, and a friend if mine helped me create a large, X-shaped foldable structure that then could be stretched across my window and could hold a good amount of clothing. I would put towels beneath it, and it would dry things pretty quickly. I would also put it in my bathroom tub, but it would get dark/moist in there, so it wasn't great.
Does your community do alotments? We have a fairly large community garden here in our city. Personally I found simple living easier in my old apartment than I do in our own home. We've been here for 10 years and it's much harder here. We will mostly likely retire to a rental.
ApatheticNoMore
4-22-12, 8:53am
Hang out laundry
Have a veggie garden -- there is no place to container garden
Do any composting --although I wasn't doing this before I'm now ready to purchase a barrel or two
Use plastic bowl covers that I would wash hang on a little clothesline that was extractbile over the sink
Start my own seeds for a garden
This is not some stuff that is universally true of renting or anything, no blanket can statement can be made about renting even as regards to apartments.
- For instance my apartment building has a clotheline outside! There is also always the possibility of hanging clothes indoors though your mileage may vary on that one (I wouldn't do it in an extremely humid climate).
- I also do have space outside to container garden, though obviously it's not the same as a plot of land. But I've grown tomatos KWIM, not a small plant. Sure land is to be desired but ...
- I don't even think the not doing any composting thing is necessarily true, having some outside space it probably is doable (ha see if the landlord complains :)). But suffice to say I do know some renters who do it (even in this building it seems with a homemade compost bin). There are also things like worm composting that can be done indoors and in small spaces I think (hmm if you can live with worms yes).
- Seeds can be started indoors (in fact generally are for cold climates and even not so cold ones). You just need grow lights which is how seed starting is generally done.
domestic goddess
4-22-12, 1:15pm
I never really found renting to e a problem, we just incorporated that into our "wish list" when looking. I always kept a small bottle rack by the kitchen sink for letting bowl covers and plastic baggies dry. There are also these little plastic hangers that will allow you to hang small things like bowl covers.I know...plastic, ewwww. But my mom is the queen of those things, so I could get them for free whenever I needed one.She still buys them, and they sit unused in her house , but "you never know when you might need one". I can't answer much to the gardening issue, as I was always able to grow at least a few herbs in a container. I think there are ways to do most things, but you have to think outside the box, and you will have to sacrifice some other things. You can still live simply, though. But you might have to expand your definition of "simply".
Miss Cellane
4-22-12, 3:14pm
You know, there are people who own their own homes who can't line dry outside, or plant a garden, or compost. People in condos are limited in what they can do, as are people who live in HOA areas. It's not so much that you are renting, but where you are renting and what your landlord will let you do.
Why can't you put a clothesline over the sink? If you can hang pictures, you could install the clothesline. Or do what I do for baggies--stick some wooden spoons in the dish drainer and hang the baggies/plastic covers on the handles until they are dry.
Depending on the humidity where you live, you can hang things to dry inside. Put clothes on hangers and hang them off curtain rods or the shower curtain rod. Small things can go on those foldable clothes dryers. You might be able to rig a clothesline over the bathtub. I can dry inside during the winter, because the house is very dry. In the summer, the humidity gets to over 85% and stays there, so I have to use the dryer--right in the middle of prime line-drying season!
Some apartments I've rented have allowed me to plant things in a small patch in the backyard--not acres of veggies, but a few tomato plants and some herbs and things. I've also been able to compost at two different apartments.
I don't know if you are renting a house or an apartment, but apartments come with some invisible simple living traits attached. Many housing units in one place means less energy used to create each housing unit. Fewer materials used overall, as there is shared plumbing and wiring and other infrastructure.
If you want to garden, but can't, there are community gardens. Or check out any local CSAs--some of them let you volunteer hours of work instead of paying them money for the produce.
If that won't work, then reverse your thinking. You can't garden--that gives you an opportunity to support local organic farmers. Seek them out and buy their produce, knowing that you are helping a local small business stay afloat.
I move a lot. Sometimes you can maintain the same lifestyle; sometimes you can't. But do remember that there is no single definition of simple living. If you are planning on moving again, make a list of what is important to you and seek out a place that will let you do those things.
Hi there
Not a big one, but I dry my covers and baggies etc. on the frigde door by putting a fridge magnet on the inside of the bag/cover.
Agree with above with the rack drying really good in the winter when the place is getting dry from the forced air heat
and in the summer when the A/C is running but, I don't do it in the spring/fall it gets too humid.
As challenging and difficult as it may be, Tussie, don't allow renting, to get you down or prompt you to give up. How about a wooden drying rack? Even though I have a clothesline, I still use a wooden drying rack. In fact, I use my wooden drying rack more than the clothesline, because from fall through till spring, it's too cold outside to hang washing, so my wooden drying gets lots of use.
As far as composting goes, that is a hard one. Composting is messy, smelly, and heavy.
Re: plastic bowl covers/baggies, before I had my wooden drying rack and needed a place to dry the babies rubber pants, I'd do what Miss Cellane did, and hang a couple of regular wire hangers from the shower rod in the bathroom, and pin the pants to the hangers. This was during the colder months when plastic things couldn't be hung outdoors. Worked like a charm.
Originally posted by ApatheticNoMore.
For instance my apartment building has a clotheline outsideThat is awesome. I used to babysit for a mom who lived in an apartment that had a clothesline out back, and I remember it always had things on it.
Well, I guess it all depends on what your definition of simple is. Me, as a single woman, I really like not having to worry about appliances or the furnace breaking. I just call my landlord. For me, simple means more along the lines of a lack of worrying about stuff.
I'm not into gardening. I do have an in unit washer/dryer, and I'll sometimes hang things up to dry (besides those things that always have to air dry).
It's small and works out very well for me. I rent a privately owned condo. If I rented a house, I'd likely have to worry about shoveling snow, cutting grass, etc. But I don't have to do any of that, and so I can concentrate on what I want to do.
iris lily
4-22-12, 10:26pm
Well, I guess it all depends on what your definition of simple is. Me, as a single woman, I really like not having to worry about appliances or the furnace breaking. I just call my landlord. For me, simple means more along the lines of a lack of worrying about stuff.
I'm not into gardening. I do have an in unit washer/dryer, and I'll sometimes hang things up to dry (besides those things that always have to air dry).
It's small and works out very well for me. I rent a privately owned condo. If I rented a house, I'd likely have to worry about shoveling snow, cutting grass, etc. But I don't have to do any of that, and so I can concentrate on what I want to do.
Agreed, when I think of "simple living" I think of renting.
We are finding renting to be nice, too. We did have to buy our own washer and fridge for this place (the dryer was free with the washer, which cost us $25 or something; the fridge cost us $15!), but otherwise pretty much everything is handled by the landlord. It's quite nice.
She can be slow to respond to things -- i.e., several weeks -- so I asked her for a list of her preferred vendors should something go wrong. She gave me that list, and I usually send her an email and give her a call (that way there is a record), and then contact the vendor a few hours later if I haven't heard from her. Then, the thing is taken care of within a day or two, and she just pays the bill or what have you.
I'm still waiting to figure out about the carpet in the kitchen -- that job still isn't finished -- but I think there is some insurance issue, and it's not that big of a deal right now.
The biggest problem that I have is not necessarily being able to change things. The landlady seems fine with paint, but always tentative. I want to paint the whole little place white, and redo the kitchen cupboards (they are going to need it, the kid took a knife to them -- they are solid wood, so we're good there, I'll just need to strip them and start over).
I'd like to get a good look at the floors. If I'm right, they are original hard wood. I'd like to insulate underneath (already priced at $250), and then get rid of the carpet and at the very least give the floors a good cleaning. The landlady seems completely scandalized by this idea. The insulation is fine with her, but the idea of me removing the carpet and she reacts like Professor Snape confronted by a shampoo bottle (that being said, I love Professor Snape).
I'd love to redo the kitchen counter tops, which are weird. I can't exactly explain how they are weird, but they are. It's like they are concave, and so it makes puddles. I think this prevents things from spilling on the carpet. I need to redo the cabinets because DS took a knife to them. They are solid wood in a dark, dark stain. I can either A. just restain the cuts or B. strip and stain/paint the cupboards. I'd like to do the second. It's actually not that much at all -- 4 drawers, 5 doors. Really, a very small space. I can borrow the sanders and shop vac from the tool exchange, but I'd have to get my own brushes and stuff. I think they might be remu or maitai.
Anyway, I wouldn't want to stain them dark again; I wouldn't want to stain them orange (that's such a weird, but very popular color here; and so I'm thinking about painting them, but not white. Maybe a natural stain plus a liming wax to get into the grain? That would give it a white-grey look, and probably look pretty nice.
But, the landlady is so tentative. I figure I can start doing it and apologize after. They are, after all, improvements.
I was just reading yesterday about a huge trend of people going back to renting to make their lives more simple and less committed. People that have had to switch jobs 3-5 times in the last few year, the expense of home ownership (like Tradd said about calling the landlord if something goes wrong), etc.
Another thing to look into is to see if you have an eldery home owners in your area who like to garden, but no longer can manage the work by themselves. I know of a woman here who does the heavier garden work for and elderly couple. She turns the soil, preps the garden, plants, weeds etc.. In exchange for use of half the garden space for her own veggies and herbs. It's a win-win for both of them.
jennipurrr
4-23-12, 10:59am
If I didn't have DH I would definitely have either a condo or an apartment. There are some great condos right by our offices and he refuses to even consider the possibility. He loves the whole yard thing and right now we have two big dogs...but if it was just me then it would be a couple of cats and NO yard / house maintenance. We own a condo that we rent out and the utilities are super cheap and there is a pool on site that is maintained (granted we go use it ourselves). I think its a simplicity trade off - I wouldn't be able to line dry whole loads, but I also wouldn't have to mow the grass.
I dry out baggies on my dish rack. I'll put them over a cup that is drying to air them out.
It is true about the moving.
It took my parents a long time to figure this out. On average, dad would get a new job every 5 years or so -- all good for him -- but not enough for the house that they'd purchased to be well vested such that they would make any profit on the sale. So, it just makes no sense for them to buy.
They are currently renting and have been for about 3 years now. They like it a lot, honestly, and the place they have is really great for them. It's a two bedroom, two bath -- plenty of space for what they like and need. It's decorated in a very "Traditional Home" manner and looks really lovely. My mother is into fancy. :)
The great thing is that because of this, they were finally able to get things together. I introduced them to several concepts: 1. getting rid of debt; 2. living on one income; and 3. saving for retirement. They were pretty bad with money until my sister and I were pretty good with it. LOL
So, they moved in and used my mother's income to pay off the debt, because the rent on this place was FAR less than the mortgage and expenses of their old place. At the end of the year, all of the debt was paid off, and then they flipped to living on my mother's income -- which was 1/3 of my father's income. That was their average day-to-day living expenses.
They then decided to put 1/3 of my father's income in their discretionary spending fund (which included coming to NZ, etc), and then have put the rest into retirement savings/investments using high-interest CDs, conservative mutual funds (the ones that my husband and I use have been consistently earning throughout the recession), and other conservative investments. They finally have a retirement fund that will support them for several years, and it's growing nicely. Both of them plan to continue working for at least another 10 years (Mom is 61, Dad is 66).
The great thing is that over the next decade, we have no idea if Dad will move again or what, and when they do decide to retire, they'll likely want to move to be closer to my sister.
My father plans to retire into academia, and there are several universities near my sister that are interested in him. He gives guest lectures at several sites there throughout the year (I think three different schools), and BIL works at a university as well, so that might also be an option.
We are looking at buying a one-up/one-down victorian to renovate as a rental (originally a two-apartment victorian, btw), and then using that as a retirement spot for my parents when the time comes. There are no stairs leading into the place (strangely enough considering the origins of the house around 1910), and my parents will be able to use the downstairs apartment. Right now, it looks like my sister and I will put in a portion (so I'll make some income off the place that way), and my parents will put in a little bit as well, and then the rest on a mortgage which would include a renovation mortgage.
Looking into it anyway. I prefer to keep cash assets right now while the business sorts itself. But who knows?
dado potato
4-23-12, 7:42pm
At times I have rented, and at times I have owned my little place in the sun.
When renting, I could establish a red wiggler worm bin under the kitchen sink. It wasn't quite "composting", but Mama Gnocchi's African Violets sure got a boost from the worms' liquid wastes.
As a renter I was not able to garden, but I was able to make truly delicious yogurt on top of the water heater.
I foraged meadow, bolete, shaggy mane and puffball mushrooms at certain places at certain times of the year. During trips I have made to Cape May, I believe I noted habitats for edible and choice mushrooms.
Personally I found simple living easier in my old apartment than I do in our own home. We've been here for 10 years and it's much harder here. We will mostly likely retire to a rental.
Me too. When I owned a home it seemed like ALL my free time was spent doing chores, repairs and maintenance on the place - and lets not even talk about the cost of those things as well as the environmental costs! As Jennipurr said, by looking at the things that DON'T have to done anymore - like mow, weed, paint, repair, etc... - you can see that a simple life is still being had. My personal version of simple living (freedom from having to do stuff :-)!) works way better in a tiny apt than a house!
For the OP I would recommend a community garden in your area, and you can often do inside line drying. Ikea has indoor clotheslines (wire racks to hang clothes on) so for small loads that might work. You can also try vermaiculture (worms for composting) under your kitchen sink and container gardening if you have a patio.
Tussiemussies
4-25-12, 7:31am
Thanks to everyone for your replies and suggestions. For me I only feel comfortable in a home that is ours and some of suggestions wouldn't apply here. If my landlady ever found out I had a worm bin she would be quite upset. No outdoor patio for container gardening and I have very larger loads of laundry so house drying isn't possible. I'm just waiting for next year until we have our own place again! Thanks for letting me vent! Christine
I own a house and it's a lot more complicated than renting an apartment. The only reasons I keep living here are that I can garden (this area has no community garden plots) and wonderful neighbors. The house, although small, fairly new, and supposedly low maintenance, really sucks up my time and money.
I own a house and it's a lot more complicated than renting an apartment. The only reasons I keep living here are that I can garden (this area has no community garden plots) and wonderful neighbors. The house, although small, fairly new, and supposedly low maintenance, really sucks up my time and money.
So true = I am endlessly trying to decide which is better - to rent or to own. I think from a long term financial perspective owning a modest (and hopefully paid off) house is probably the wisest thing, but renting sure frees up both your time and your money to pursue other things in life. I'm able to rent now that I only have one small dog (had 3 dogs not too long ago, one large, so owned a home) and have often wondered if I could continue renting for the rest of my life I love it so much. But financially...er... I don't know. Rental prices rise fairly quickly over a person's life time and what is affordable now, may not be in 20 or 30 years even if one is willing to just live in a studio apt in an inexpensive part of the country. With owning a paid off place, you always have that roof over your head and , in most cases, your annual expenses could be less than ever increasing rental fees.
So true = I am endlessly trying to decide which is better - to rent or to own. I think from a long term financial perspective owning a modest (and hopefully paid off) house is probably the wisest thing, but renting sure frees up both your time and your money to pursue other things in life. I'm able to rent now that I only have one small dog (had 3 dogs not too long ago, one large, so owned a home) and have often wondered if I could continue renting for the rest of my life I love it so much. But financially...er... I don't know. Rental prices rise fairly quickly over a person's life time and what is affordable now, may not be in 20 or 30 years even if one is willing to just live in a studio apt in an inexpensive part of the country. With owning a paid off place, you always have that roof over your head and , in most cases, your annual expenses could be less than ever increasing rental fees.
My husband and I are considering that as well right now. We currently own and have 22 years left on this mortgage. It's a huge financial and time sink. There is always something that needs to be repaired or replaced. We just had to put on a new porch roof and dh spent four weekends patching the garage roof (don't have the cash to replace that yet). We have one small dog and one cat and can't imaging trying to rent with pets. Costs around here are more with pets and there are extra fees tacked onto your monthly rent when you have a pet. The dog will be 10 this year and the cat will be 13. So we are looking at what to do when they pass on. Renting sounds very appealing. Our city does have community gardens and the only thing I would miss is hanging out my clothes. Life was much simpler when we rented.
I think that overall renting has got to be simpler, and may well be cheaper in the long term. My friends who own houses are forever having some unexpected expense drop from the sky--new septic system, new roof, new furnace.... My sister, who is disabled and lives on a fixed income, is constantly fretting about these kinds of costs. Just last week she had to shell out several hundred bucks for a new garage door opener when the old one broke and she couldn't get her car out of the garage.
The standard argument is favor of buying is that you are "building equity" instead of shelling out money for rent. As millions of homeowners have recently learned, that's not such a certainty. There's also the argument that you get to deduct interest payments from your taxes. The problem with that line of reasoning is that you're paying many thousands of dollars (hundreds of thousands, in most cases) over the life of your mortgage to get a tax "savings."
In 2000 I moved to the costliest housing market in the country. At times during the past dozen years I considered the possibility of buying a small condo, which was all I could afford. Had I bought before the housing bubble burst, I would have taken a bath when the market collapsed. I would also have paid a ton of interest on the mortgage by now. Instead, I found the cheapest apartment I could (not cheap in absolute terms, but by the standards of the area). If someone were to tell me I'm throwing away money on rent, I'd point out a couple of things. If I owned this apartment, in addition to a mortgage payment, I'd be paying about $200 in local property taxes and almost another $300 in common charges--nearly half my present rent. And I'd be responsible for fixing anything that broke, painting the place, cleaning the carpet, and so on--all things my landlord does now. I write one check at the beginning of the month, and that's the end of my headaches.
All that said, I don't discount the possibility of buying a home one day. I like the idea of living in a very small house, and it would be nice to have a small yard. Almost no such houses exist around here, so I don't think I'll be buying unless I move out of the area.
I rent my apartment in a beautiful area. I like renting far better than owning a home, since I don't have to worry about paying property taxes. Our rentals here are only allowed to be raised once per year at 4.5 percent. If something breaks I have to call the manager and he will fix it.
My apartment is large, has two skylights, a huge bedroom and a smaller bedroom which I use as a den. I have my computer and a single bed for guests there.
I have a very large deck with two sliding glass doors, one in my bedroom and one in the livingroom. I have a private parking spot, included in the rent. The kitchen is small but it has a fridge, stove and dishwasher all recently replaced, plus my microwave oven. The bathroom is small but has a huge mirrored wall, two drawers and plenty of cupboards. It had plumbing to put my washer and dryer in, which I can take with me if I move into another apartment, but I don't plan on any moves and have told my son that he can have them when I die.
The block next to mine has a bank, a clothing store, 4 hairdressers, a great pizza shop, barbershop, a large grocery store, two stores which sell both new and used clothing, which is where I buy clothes if I need some. I have more than enough closets that I need to go through and give them to a charity to sell.
I'm a homeowner and a landlord. All things considered, I'd rather own.
As a renter, you still have to pay for utilities consumed. You also have to pay for the mortgage and the taxes on the property. What many people may not know is that, at least in my area, the property tax rate and the mortgage rate are higher than those for an owner-occupied dwelling because the place being rented is considered "investment property". There also are licenses and city inspections I have to pay for for my rented property that I do not have to pay for my own home. And rental properties need new roofs and water heaters and painting. You're paying for those, too, though people who rent in larger dwellings (like apartment buildings) enjoy a bit of an "insurance effect" in that it's unlikely everyone will need a repair in the same month.
As a homeowner, I can decorate and remodel the way I want. Not everything has to be "apartment white" or "neutral". I can garden outside, have a pet, not have a pet, and I have complete control over how a repair or improvement is done. Even on a city lot, I have some space and privacy (and no more bowling-ball-juggling upstairs neighbors). It doesn't cost me $3-4 every time I wash and dry a load of laundry (not counting driving to the laundromat when I had to do that).
To each their own, certainly. It is simpler to write one check a month to the landlord and to have one phone number to call when something breaks. But ownership has its advantages, too. I'm writing this mostly to point out that the economic argument for renting may not be as strong as it seems over the longer term.
Something about the rent vs. own argument that needs to be considered. Some of us don't have incomes that would *ever* allow us to buy, at least not something decent in a relatively safe area. My area is so expensive, even now, and the property taxes are ridiculous. There's no way I would ever be able to buy, at least not on my own (aka without a hubby).
I'm fortunate that my rent hasn't gone up in four years.
I'm with Tradd on that.
The average Kiwi family earns around $40k per year. To live somewhere in the city that is a decent and safe neighborhood, the least expensive houses that would be simple and decent (talking 800 sq ft or less, 2 br places with modest 'fixes' that need to be done) would cost between $450-550k to purchase.
Here, the really only allow 15 year mortgages, and it's only fixed for the first 5 years, and after that you negotiate for the rate and the cap. You have to have 25% down just to get a mortgage, which means that the average person would have to save $112,500 just to be able to buy a place.
As "Don't tell me what to do!" will be my epitaph, and because I fiercely guard my privacy, renting doesn't hold much appeal for me, but I can see the practicality of it. It does seem simpler, in many ways, than buying.
I understand completely - limitations on such otherwise practical and simple things is very frustrating!
My own predicament is more just because we live in a 100-year-old apartment. I'm dyyyiiiing for a little garden or even a balcony where I could grow veggies!
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