View Full Version : Mixed feelings about Walmart...........
I know Walmart has not been ethical in the past. It is pretty obnoxious about some of its positions. Now it has been discovered that in Mexico, they used millions of dollars to bribe various cities/towns to hasten the process of building new stores.........lots of them. I don't know if this means they put stores where the general consensus was the public didn't want them, or if they paid to just rush it through "due process" or what.
I know alot of you refuse to shop there.
My conflict is that I live out in the country. The Walmart in the small town nearby is about 10 miles away. If I went to Target, it would be about 21 miles away. Meijer is about 30 miles away.
I could pay a whole lot more and buy necessities at Kroger. I could drive all those extra miles to go to other stores, but then I'm polluting the air more/using more gas, etc.
I felt better about our local Walmart a few years ago when they allowed me to post flyers of a missing boy, when other businesses wouldn't.
they have great electric carts for people like me who can't walk that much without having alot of knee pain.
Part of me wants to absolutely boycott them, but part of me also doesn't want to travel so far, use so much gas, inconvenience myself so much, have my legs hurt so much, etc., etc.
I'm conflicted.
I want to go there, but feel like I'm really selling out. :(
I have a list of just a few things we use regularly that Wal-Mart sells so much cheaper than anyone else its foolish to buy them elsewhere. Its one of those go in, get the 5 things on the list and leave kind of shopping trips. Other than that I never step foot in one, not as a protest, but mostly because I just don't enjoy the experience. I am decidedly not one of their customers who regularly fills a cart with plastic trinkets and Oreos when they only came in for Tide.
I do not shop at Walmart unless it's an emergency - like I'm out of printer paper/ink and I really need to have it now. My Walmart is 10 miles away.
The nearest Target is 22 miles away. My strategy has been to make fewer (larger) shopping trips and go to Target instead. The price breaks are nearly as good, and I feel better about it. Maybe some day Walmart will clean up their act and I won't have to. But for now, my math says I spend an extra $3.87 per trip to go to Target instead of Walmart, plus any price differences. At two trips per month (max) I think I can afford to do the right thing. I'll save the money somewhere else. That's just us, though.
Just sick of giving my money to companies that use it like that.
I don't know if would help anyone make choices, but many retailers do free shipping for a minimum $ in online purchases (including Walmart). Being carless, I use the option a fair amount.
I also only use Walmart in an emergency, and I'm also out in the boonies. Target is 1/2 hour away, but I batch my shopping with other errands, and always buy multiples and the like to need fewer trips.
Walmart caused a huge rift in my town -- there was a large contingent that wanted to keep them out because we are a small quaint tourist town with a number of unique shops. About half or more of these small shops have closed since Walmart came to town. They made all kinds of promises to get through the approvals, and well as finding some loopholes. but they did not deliver on all of them.
I don't enjoy the experience either. The store has odd lighting, and everyone seems to be in a bad mood and rude, and there are never enough cashiers so there is always a line.
Sad Eyed Lady
4-26-12, 1:14pm
Haven't shopped in one in years and don't plan to. As far as the carts, other places have them too - I used one at Kroger when I was in a cast and on crutches and it sure made getting around a lot easier. I live 20-25 miles away from a shopping area and I just make sure my day to go is one that I can get everything done that I need to do, so even though I am using extra gas I try to make it worthwhile and not may unnecessary trips.
goldensmom
4-26-12, 1:53pm
The nearest Walmart is 25 miles from us. We don't shop at Walmart because it is too crowded, it is dirty, it is difficult to find a parking place, lots of traffic in the town where it is located and with the price of gas we would not save anything by driving that far. We did go to a new Walmart once when we were away on vacation, had a good experience and would probably shop at a Walmart if we could have that experience locally.
I live in one of the few suburban areas in the country without a Walmart nearby. They are almost 20 miles away, when Target is 6 miles away. That is supposed to change within three years.
My only practical option to shop there would be in the exurban area where I work, something I do about once a year.
Like goldensmom, my experiences have been very mixed. The newer one in the town where I work is quite nice, the older ones nearer home are dumpy and very overcrowded. As I have issues with crowded places, they are pretty much off-limits to me. I suspect I will have similar problems with the coming Walmart nearer home.
loosechickens
4-26-12, 2:59pm
Well, I hate to be in the position of defending WalMart in any way, and I know that the law is that our corporations are not supposed to do business with bribes in other countries, but the reality in places like Mexico is that pretty much nothing would get DONE without lots of bribes.
We lived in Mexico off and on for some years, and even something so simple as getting your vehicle registration renewed (something that here in the States, comes in the mail, you send in a check and they send you back your sticker for your plate or a new plate), required several days to do and involved bribing a half dozen people during the process.
You got your notice that your registration was going to run out, then you went to the motor vehicle office, where you had to bribe the secretary to look up your account, and then you had to bribe the person in charge of sending the people out to check the VIN number on your vehicle, then you had to bribe the person who looked at the VIN number, then when you got back into the office, you found that they were "out of" plates that day, so you had to come back the next day, go through much of the process again, and finally pay a goodly amount for them to hand over the new license plate to you. All this went on in offices with big notices up that bribery was illegal, and an 800 number to call if you were asked for a bribe, but EVERYONE knew that if you EVER wanted to see license plates for your car, the last thing you wanted to do was to call that number and report it.
It was just the way the system worked. Sadly. It's the same way for the police. They pay them a few dollars a day in local jurisdictions, and they are pretty much completely dependent on what they can shake down people for, for their living.
It certainly wasn't right for WalMart to try to cover up the fact that they DID pay bribes (and for the most part in Mexico, there isn't resistance to WalMart going in your neighborhood, as everybody is just WAITING to hand over their pesos......when a Sears store opened when we lived in Oaxaca, you couldn't get within blocks of the place for weeks, they were so mobbed with customers), so I doubt that it was because people in those areas didn't want WalMart, probably much more that the whole system is based on bribery.
I try not to ever shop at WalMart because I don't like the way they treat their employees, I don't like the way they squeeze suppliers to cheapen and cheapen their products to meet WalMart price points, I don't like their politics.......but in this case, I feel like if they wanted to open stores in Mexico, they probably didn't have much of a choice but to do what they did.
In the town where we lived on the coast, if you ordered a bathing suit from LLBean, if you didn't want to see the post office guy's girlfriend wearing your bathing suit on the beach, you handed over the "extra" customs fee in cash in addition to the legal, backed by paperwork fees........you just got used to it. EVERYTHING you went to do, somebody had a hand out for their "mordita" (Spanish for a "bite").
I like WalMart. We shop there all the time.
There are two WalMart supercenters within a 15 minute drive, although in opposite directions. They are clean, have a large inventory of items we may want or need and they employ hundreds of my neighbors.
WalMart also welcomes us to park our motorhome overnight in their lots when we're off exploring South Dakota or Arizona or Texas or Florida or North Carolina or wherever the winds may blow us.
No complaints here!
ApatheticNoMore
4-26-12, 3:47pm
Two targets within 2 miles (in each direction) of me. Walmart is around 12 miles away. I don't want shop at Walmart, I don't like it's policies, and there is just no point. My rule of thumb is driving more miles to save money almost never does (because of gas prices, because of wear and tear on the car, because of the possibility of a ticket, because of the possibility of getting rear-ended etc.) I often don't want to be bothered to go to the Target and just buy stuff from the drug store that's a 1 block walk from me or wherever I happen to be buying food anyway (the prices are cheaper at Target though).
In your situation I would probably do Walmart or else order things online in bulk I guess though. I actually do think about the extra pollution from driving more miles. I don't know what the environmental effect of having things shipped is (more or less than big box stores? I have no idea really). If they ship through the post office that's ideal for me.
I shop alot less at Walmart than I used to. I don't buy fresh food there. I feel like I spread my shopping around pretty well, even if that means paying extra somewhere else.
I know this sounds weird, but sometimes, I just like to go to the closest Walmart (brand new, very clean, not crowded, decent employees) and ride the electric cart around and look at things. I even take it outside to all their plants/flowers, etc. Especially in the winter when I can't ride my golf cart around, it almost feels like I'm on vacation there. haha I don't have to even buy much. I just enjoy getting out.
I don't have the greatest feelings towards Target. I know this sounds like a poor reason, but their electric carts aren't maintained and I think they're even dangerous. They go from 1-50 in 5 seconds. hahaha
There's nothing more embarrassing than knocking over a display. You really feel like an out-of-control old fart! hahaha
I go lots of different places to shop. I guess I'm feeling guilty for enjoying the Walmart here so much, when it IS a pretty obnoxious company. There's an old little town near here with little shops, cobblestone streets, etc. Walmart wanted to put a store fairly close to them and they said NO! Last I heard Walmart is suing them. What kind of a store goes in where it isn't wanted?
Well, I guess I'll continue to go there, but go plenty of other places too, to spread my money around. But I can change my mind at any time.
I discovered in about 1999/2000 there is very little at walmart or other big box stores that i wanted or needed to purchase.
On occasion, there was reason to go in -- such as to get the right kinds of batteries for the various little devises that we had (one of those small, personal LED reading lights that clips onto the book like a bookmark -- so great!). And so we would go.
But otherwise, everything that we wanted or needed could be purchased at our local health food store for as good or better a price for the things we could get at walmart/target. For example, we could buy vinegar in bulk (our primary cleaning agent) at the health food store and it was much cheaper. Same with baking soda (agent number 2).
before leaving for NZ, I did buy the levis signature collection jeans from walmart because they fit best. I tried on all manner of fair trade jeans, and nothing fit properly. I knew those jeans did, so I went and bought 4 pair of them. Still going strong those jeans, 2 years later. They aren't the fashionable "skinny jeans" that people are wearing, but they work for me. I'm not too fussed about whether or nto I'm that fashionable.
The practitioners who worked in our offices before finally leaving (the ones we inherited with the business) did make fun of me about them, but they were not fashion plates themselves (imo), so I figured it was mostly insecurity and an attempt to get under my skin. Takes a lot to get under there -- I'm seriously tough as nails (i got picked on a lot in school from age 9 onwards. you develop thick skin.). I thought it was amusing, though. LOL
Walmart is Bad. Sticky. Need one.
What kind of a store goes in where it isn't wanted?
Our central center neighborhood fought to keep Walmart out for several years. We even hired lawyers for the fight. It caused bitter feuds between the seniors who live here who for whatever reason love WM and other residents. In the end, WM won by putting in a smaller store. I have been several times out of curiosity but quickly determined that since I have other choices, I will not go again. Just a few weeks ago, a policeman was murdered inside another WM here. I am sorry they feel the need to open a store every five miles. I don't know what I would do if I lived out in the boonies and that was my only choice for certain things. It adds to my list of why we will probably never live where there are not other choices.
Just today, Forbes.com calls WM a sinking ship:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2012/04/26/walmarts-mexican-bribery-scandal-will-sink-it-like-the-icerberg-sank-the-titanic/
Come to think of it, all the big box stores save for Costco are slowly disappearing.
I know Walmart has not been ethical in the past. It is pretty obnoxious about some of its positions. Now it has been discovered that in Mexico, they used millions of dollars to bribe various cities/towns to hasten the process of building new stores.........lots of them. I don't know if this means they put stores where the general consensus was the public didn't want them, or if they paid to just rush it through "due process" or what.
I know alot of you refuse to shop there.
My conflict is that I live out in the country. The Walmart in the small town nearby is about 10 miles away. If I went to Target, it would be about 21 miles away. Meijer is about 30 miles away.
I could pay a whole lot more and buy necessities at Kroger. I could drive all those extra miles to go to other stores, but then I'm polluting the air more/using more gas, etc.
I felt better about our local Walmart a few years ago when they allowed me to post flyers of a missing boy, when other businesses wouldn't.
they have great electric carts for people like me who can't walk that much without having alot of knee pain.
Part of me wants to absolutely boycott them, but part of me also doesn't want to travel so far, use so much gas, inconvenience myself so much, have my legs hurt so much, etc., etc.
I'm conflicted.
I want to go there, but feel like I'm really selling out. :(
I don't think you can do anything in Mexico without bribes......if you research any company building there, you will find the same issue. We use Walmart, because it is just about the only choice where we live. I cannot afford to pay 25% more on some items and run all over the country. I would pay more at Walmart for American made goods.
fidgiegirl
4-27-12, 11:32am
I am also in the camp of not liking WalMart very well. Interestingly, I don't care for Target, either, or pretty much any big box. I don't care for the way Target ripped down one of our few operating hotels outside of the downtown core of St. Paul (though they bought it and had every right to do what they want with it) in order to build a SuperTarget with a parking lot the size of five of their buildings, half of which sits empty all the time. I am also concerned when non union businesses like Target and Aldi sidle up next to our local unionized chains. Although to confess I haven't been thinking of that much lately when I've been shopping more at Whole Foods than anywhere else. Thankfully, we have many options within walking distance and if we drive about 10 miles to the burbs there is every choice imaginable.
The one that REALLY chapped my hide was Lowe's going into my hometown, where my parents still live, about 50 miles north of the Cities, building their ugly box, but not just building it, forcing/asking for/getting/resulting in a relocation of the municipal ball fields so that they could have the land to build it on, and then closing up shop fewer than two years after opening their doors. They opened that sucker in the height of the recession and smack across the street from Menards. To me, that was just irresponsible and I would think any company that size would have had market research out the ying yang telling them it wasn't going to work! So now that sits, and will sit for years, barring some miracle, and the people have drive out of town to play ball. And the land that empty Lowe's sits on, and the ball fields had formerly sat on, had been donated to the city by a family for parks, they were just figuring they could swap it for another parcel (the city made no money in the end, and the ballfields are still available, just in a different location) and it would all be ok. I would have been p*ssed if I were the family that donated that land. If the city wasn't going to keep it for parks, anyway, well then the family might as well have sold it for millions of dollars. I don't even live there and it makes me so mad!!!!!
... I don't know what I would do if I lived out in the boonies and that was my only choice for certain things. It adds to my list of why we will probably never live where there are not other choices.
That's what crossed my mind. A big downside of rural/small town living is that you have fewer choices and often have to drive for miles to exercise them. Having spent my early youth in the boondocks, where the only library was one town over and the size of a broom closet, i would never willingly do so again.
Having just taken a ride in my golfcart through our woods, down by the creek and having seen lots of wildflowers and migrating birds........I wouldn't move out of the country for anything! I guess that should go into my decision about Walmart..........since they wouldn't think twice about ruining everything everywhere, to put up another store.
Man, can you imagine the unemployment rate if Walmart went under?? If it did go under, I'd have to say I would probably have a little Schadenfreude!
I'm not going to Walmart today after all. I actually wanted to get some of their herb plants there, since they are in Bonnie's biodegradable pots, as opposed to lots of other store's plastic pots.
I guess its all a compromise many times.
Sometimes I'm really overwhelmed by what this country has become in terms of "capitalism". Seems like everyone lies, just to make a buck. Its discouraging. All the commercials on TV are just lies and more lies.
Anyhow........I appreciate your feedback on this!
fidgiegirl
4-27-12, 2:31pm
Man, can you imagine the unemployment rate if Walmart went under??
What do you mean, CathyA? Are you envisioning it going up, or down? Because I bet people could make an argument for either one.
"It would go up": All those people that work for WalMart would be out of a job.
"It would go down": Small businesses would have a chance at survival. Manufacturers that were forced to go to China to meet WalMart's pricing requirements could feasibly bring their enterprises back to the US. New manufacturers could have a fighting chance.
Meh, but WalMart ain't goin' anywhere anytime soon.
ApatheticNoMore
4-27-12, 2:40pm
Man, can you imagine the unemployment rate if Walmart went under?? If it did go under, I'd have to say I would probably have a little Schadenfreude!
It's the biggest employer, hmm maybe biggest private sector employer in the country. Great, eh?
Having just taken a ride in my golfcart through our woods, down by the creek and having seen lots of wildflowers and migrating birds........I wouldn't move out of the country for anything! ...
I guess its all a compromise many times. ...
That's what I like about where I live: all the benefits of nature (I have my own little backyard forest, birds and creatures galore, a lake within a stone's throw) with the convenience of nearby shopping, schools, libraries, and a big city just around the bend. I can see advantages to city living--walkability for one, but I know that living in the "outback" would never work for me.
And the closest Wal-Mart is miles and miles away; I don't think there's much demand for them around here.
I'm a 'reluctant' wal-mart shopper. I can send the family out with carts to the 4 winds with lists, meet back at the checkouts and be done in 30 min. But if I have to go in alone it is sheer torture and often I'll sit in the parking lot and then just leave without even going in. I think it's one of the biggest SuperCenters ever built.
Our grocery stores run so much more expensive because we're a tourist town - a lot of things are $1-$2 more!!
I'm at a place in life where I have to watch every penny so it does make a difference in our budget, like it or not. I dolike shopping early (8 a.m.) at the Target across the road from the Wal-mart. Much more quiet and peaceful even if it is more expensive than Wal-Mart.
I prefer Target to Walmart.
But my two cents on the whole Walmart thing:
However, those folks who get on their high horse about Walmart seem to forget one thing: there are many people for whom modest incomes means they have to shop where they can get the best value for their money. And that is often Walmart. And even if there possibly are other options, the extra gas money going to the other options might not be in the family budget. Period. And when it comes to feeding your family, keeping the kids fed will likely rate higher than whatever scruples people might have about shopping at Walmart.
rosarugosa
4-27-12, 10:12pm
These things are often more complicated than they appear at first glance. I don't shop at WM, but I'm always quick to note that I don't like the store, so even if they were the ultimate humanitarian organization, I probably stll wouldn't shop there. But I dislike many things about the company, so it's a no-brainer for me personally. I also live in a suburban area just outside of Boston, so my shopping options are almost infinite (a problem in itself!)
DH and I were recently talking about grocery stores. We are spending a lot less on groceries since switching from Stop & Shop to Market Basket, and since we are living on a lower income, this has been a good move for us. But S&S has several adults with mental disabilities working there, and I respect them for that. They also are a union company, and while I was never a big fan of unions, I can see the social value of paying employees enough to afford them a decent standard of living and providing them with benefits. S&S is part of a large international conglomerate, and MB is a local chain, so that makes us feel good about patronizing MB. It is my understanding that MB treats its employees well, so at least we don't have to lose sleep over our choice to shop there. Shopping at MB probably costs about $2.00 more in gas per week, but we save $20 - $30 per trip, so it's worth it. We still use S&S for all our quick runs. In conclusion, there can be a bewildering array of variables to consider when trying to decide on the "right" place to spend one's dollars.
Fidgiegirl......I meant in terms of hundreds of thousands of people possibly being laid off (If Walmart tanked). I don't think they would necessarily be picked up by smaller businesses.
I like Target much better than Walmart - and the prices (for food too) really aren't that much different. I also find that Target has less expensive food than my local supermarkets so often shop there. While I also have a problem with Walmarts labor issues and employee treatment - especially it overseas practices when using foreign labor - I understand that for many people cost is a huge thing and Walmart does have low prices. I also agree with Cathy A that even if all the Walmarts closed, most of those employees would not be picked up by small business which generally only have a few employess - many part time with no benefits. Plus, with other super stores like Target and Costco around, there will still be competetion for small business.
I have also wondered about Costco. Do you think the membership price it worth it? They are opening a new one in the town I live and I have thought about buying a membership card. Don't know anything about them ethically, and I don't buy much in bulk, but they seem VERY low cost compared to regular supermarkets and even Smart and Finals for big bags of frozen fruits and veggies, which I use alot. I also like that they have lots of free samples thru out the store to try. Free Lunch!!
loosechickens
4-28-12, 3:47pm
Even living in a motorhome, and there only being two of us, we find Costco to be worth paying the membership fee.
They have the lowest turnover in employees of any of the big box stores...their average worker's pay is about $20 an hour, with full health benefits.....they treat their people right, and if you're like my sweetie, easy to "lunch" there on the free samples, hahahaha. They pay and treat their employees WAY better than most of those places, and it shows in their quality of employee.
There was an interesting documentary on Costco the other night on CNBC, and I'm sure it can still be accessed on the CNBC website.
Really a good corporate citizen......and lightyears better than WalMart or Target, IMHO. Even with our limited buying, we feel it's worth it to belong. They have quite a bit of organic stuff, both fresh and frozen, and many of even their processed things have excellent ingredients, without chemicals.......I try to withstand it, but their tapioca pudding in the refrigerated section is just like Grandma used to make, with the same ingredients......no chemicals, thickeners, artificial stuff, etc.
We buy cheeses, some produce, frozen organic fruit for smoothies, canned wild Alaskan salmon, great Campari tomatoes, canned organic tomatoes, vitamins and lots of other stuff.........well worth the membership IMHO
Thanks for the info LC. I'll probably join when I gety back from my trip. I live on smooties (love my Ninja blender!) and their prices for frozen things are so much lower thsn anywhere I've ever seen. I also see that their gas prices are pretty low - even lower then the Arco's around here (and Toms Farm Arco by you is the lowest I've seen). And they are putting in a gas station at the Huntington Beach Costco they are building so that is an added bonus. I also like their "outside" frozen yogurt but you don't need to be a member to buy that. Are there any discounts that can be used to reduce the cost of membership? like an AAA card, AARP, VA, military, etc...? Probably not.
We are only two, and enjoy CostCo as well. We're part of a business membership and so it's even more worth it. The best part of all, imho, is the deal you get on Spa Finder gift certificates (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11680159&search=spa%20finder&topnav=&Mo=0&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode%20matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=spa%20finder&Ntt=spa%20finder&No=0&Nty=1&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial) :) Massage really helps my aging body, and 20% off year-round is a good deal.
Wildflower
4-28-12, 4:37pm
When I drive to town, about every other month, I have my choice of Walmart or Target - they sit directly across the road from each other. I find Target to be the more pleasant shopping experience, although I still have to go to Walmart for a few things, like kitty litter. Walmart is the only place that has the kitty litter that my three picky cats will use. I have compared prices on all the things I buy between the two stores and find them usually to be only a couple cents different, with Walmart sometimes being the higher price.
If I had my preference I wouldn't shop at either one, but I really don't have a choice where I live. All of the small shops have been run out of business, and truthfully they were much higher priced than Walmart or Target. Price is very important to most people these days, although I still believe in you get what you pay for usually. But we're on such a tight retirement budget now, through no fault of our own. Our forced early retirement due to my health problems and the company DH worked for for 30 years going bankrupt leaving him with a tiny pension, then subsequent spinal surgery that left him unable to return to work, yet too young for Social Security and not disabled enough to get SS disability. We were both told our conditions weren't terminal so we couldn't get disablity. We also lost alot of money as many others did, thanks to the economic crisis. But I digress, saving money on our small amount of purchases with the budget we live on is very important to us now, and Walmart and Target fit the bill, as they do for alot of people. I NEVER buy groceries there, only the essentials that we can't do without or that I can't make on my own. I buy groceries locally. We have a garden and I can the excess, and we eat very little meat, make our own bread, etc. So keeping the food bill down is priority around here too....
I do have to say that I don't care for the business practices of either store. Both of my DDs worked at Walmart and Target when they were teenagers, and management treats their employees terribly. Truly, I buy very little from either store, only what I have to....
Sorry, didn't mean to ramble, but CathyA, if Walmart is working for you, you shouldn't feel any guilt about shopping there in my opinion.... If it is a pleasant experience for you then I say go for it! :)
Costco is a good place to shop, but too far away for us, and the membership fee is high.
You could not pay me to shop at a Walmart, Kmart, etc.
Costco has a good reputation for paying and treating their employees well, as well as for having high quality products and liberal return policies. I only go there occasionally, but i consider my membership completely worthwhile. I'd probably pay the price just for their giant jars of artichoke hearts and big sturdy storage bins.
Mighty Frugal
5-3-12, 10:11pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FUiXoAvOwI
That's the Costco show from CNBC. DH sent it to me yesterday and I watched it last night. I've always dragged my heels to 'join' a store that would actually make me PAY to shop there but I am tempted.
WE joined once years ago and always ended up spending $200 on chocolate bars.
Well I joined Costco. Cost $55 but they gave me a $10 gift card. So far I like it alot. Gas is about .10 cents cheaper than even the lowest priced cash-only Arco stations, they don't have "small" things (like candy and baked goodies) so I'm not tempted by those like I am at regular markets, and they are alot cheaper for the kinds of bulk things (frozen fruits and veggies) that I usually buy. So far so good! And I LOVE all the free samples!!
I was in the unique and frustrating position of being the Economic Development Director for my community when Wal-Mart decided they wanted a store here. Given the fact that we are an historic tourism destination, there was great outcry, particularly from owners of shops in our thriving downtown. Other people wanted to be able to buy things like socks, underwear and makeup without driving 25 miles. We had roughly half of the City Council for it and half against. We heard everything from they promise huge sales tax revenue and don't produce it to they pay minimum wage and don't offer any benefits. My job was to bring the facts to the table.
I called 22 communities roughly our size with recently built Wal-Mart stores and spoke to their City Managers, the directors for their local Chamber of Commerce, and usually at least one other person in the community. It was an eye opener. In every case Wal-Marts sales exceeded what was promised. Only one of the 22 communities actually lost a business as a result of the new Wal-Mart. Probably a larger problem in terms of employment was people who worked in other businesses for minimum wage and not benefits leaving to work for Wal-Mart, which offered them better employment. And my biggest surprise was that Wal-Mart requires their stores to give approximately $35,000 per year to organizations in their community.
I'm not defending Wal-Mart's vast array of corporate sins. But I think if you looked into the legal cases of other stores it might surprise you. And I know I was surprised when I looked into who was printing and paying for all the anti-Wal-Mart books that were being distributed free throughout our community. It was Target.
We lost one store, a small sporting goods store, on Main Street during that time. They closed six months before Wal-Mart ever broke ground. And something I found ironic occurred. One of the main reasons people wanted a Wal-Mart was that there was literally no place in town to buy a pair of socks. Four years after Wal-Mart opened a new business opened up on Main Street. It's a sock shop. That's all they sell. Socks. And they're doing extremely well in spite of Wal-Mart.
iris lily
5-22-12, 10:52am
Interesting POV, Charity. Nothing like facts to back up the unpopular view here.
Some time ago in one of the ongoing anti-Walmart threads (where's that sticky!?) someone said (paraphrase) "Walmart doesn't donate to the community as a matter of corporate policy" yet there I was at the computer, holding in my hand a $50 Walmart gift certificate that I had won at a lily show, donated by Walmart.
It really is more fun to dis and moan, making up facts that support our prejudices.
Probably Target employees are behind the barrage of Walmart negativity here on this board! Zoe Girl, yeah, she's to blame! (just kidding Zoe, if you are reading this.)
All of that said, I don't like Walmuart with all the crap piled to the ceiling and smelling like plastic, but fortunately do not have to shop there since they are all out of my city. I go to Target and Kmart which have stores within the city limits. I visit the big box stores about 2 - 3 times per year, usually shopping from a list.
Very interesting Charity. So nice to have some first hand verification of what's really going on!
Timing is everything, Wal-Mart announced this morning that they are going to build a "super center" in our part of town. It will be 125,000 square feet, much smaller than their others in town which are over 200,000. Still, it will be surrounded on three sides by residential that is already developed. It is along a busy street and was zoned for big box development years ago when a mall was developed about a 1/2 mile up the road and a car dealership across the road. That zoning was never changed even though the development ended up being largely residential in the immediate area. The two most exclusive neighborhoods, and the majority of the most expensive homes in town, are within a mile radius of the location. Needless to say the homeowners in the area are not pleased.
ApatheticNoMore
5-23-12, 1:03pm
Some time ago in one of the ongoing anti-Walmart threads (where's that sticky!?) someone said (paraphrase) "Walmart doesn't donate to the community as a matter of corporate policy" yet there I was at the computer, holding in my hand a $50 Walmart gift certificate that I had won at a lily show, donated by Walmart.
The information Charity provided is interesting. However corporate charitable donations as such do just about nothing to change my mind about a corporation. Some of the scummiest financial institutions that went outright bankrupt during the crash, used to brag about their donations to charity. I know, I worked for them (but got out long before they went under). Even on the ground level the level of dysfunction in how they were run was out of this world (like you could never believe a huge company could be run that ran badly), even some of the scams were visibile to low level workers who had been there a long time (they spread rumors about how the whole structure was vulnerable to being stolen from etc.). And that was the view from mere worker bees, not inner circle who pocketed fortunes as the whole company built on nothing when bankrupt. So, I don't doubt that corporate charitable donations do some real good, but that alone will never sell me.
I don't like Wal-Mart's corporate practices for other reasons. The observations I shared have more to do with whether or not they were bad for the communities they open up in than what I think of them as a company. I honestly have to say they have made a very positive impact here. I do shop there on occasion because I'd rather pay sales tax in my community than pay it, in our case, in another state, which is where I'd have to go to shop at Target or Kohls. As the Finance Director for my city I strongly advocate shopping locally and I do all my holiday shopping on Main Street, and all my grocery shopping with rare exceptions at our local grocery store, not at Wal-Mart.
I particularly don't like their policies toward their suppliers which no amount of community charity makes up for really. I've read many articles about how small to medium suppliers are often put out of business by them. Wal-Mart's strategy is to not pay products until all the product is sold from their stores. So a vendor can wait anywhere from 3 to 8 months before getting paid for their product. All too often, upon landing Wal-Mart as a client, the vendor will put all their eggs in that basket to meet the demand and find themselves in a situation where they can't buy materials or pay workers until Wal-Mart pays them. When they can't do that they violate their contract with Wal-Mart and lose the only customer they have left which forces them out of business.
That being said, those vendors share in the blame for getting themselves into an untenable business contract.
There's the corporate practices, then there's the people who work there. I have been fine with the employees. Like I've said before, when there was a student missing at a nearby university, and I was taking around flyers about him, Walmart quickly allowed me to put his picture and info up. Other businesses didn't. I guess I factor some of those things into how I feel.
You could not pay me to shop at a Walmart, Kmart, etc.
Even if I had no concern over their business practices, I find it almost unbearable to enter a Walmart.
The massive size of the store, the volumes of people, the noise, the trance-inducing lighting, the sheer display of mountains of shoddy goods that I simply have no need for, all combine to make it very unpleasant on those few times I have to enter a Walmart to do an errand. Furthermore, the whole feel of the parking lot, especially in the evening, is like a watering hole on the Serengeti, with all the grazing animals coming and going, while the predators pick and choose their prey. No thanks.
Luckily, it takes me a good 3-4 hours to get to the nearest one.
While I don't particularly like certain aspects Re: the way WalMart, does business, I still shop there. Seldom does WalMart, not have what I'm after, and next to never, do I ever leave WalMart, without having spent less. For me that is the bottom line. Mind you, I don't shop WalMart, to by plastic waste, junk, or gizmos.
Even if I had no concern over their business practices, I find it almost unbearable to enter a Walmart.
The massive size of the store, the volumes of people, the noise, the trance-inducing lighting, the sheer display of mountains of shoddy goods that I simply have no need for, all combine to make it very unpleasant on those few times I have to enter a Walmart to do an errand.
I occasionally go to Walmart under the right circumstances, but am pretty sure entering the one nearest my home on a Saturday afternoon would trigger a panic attack.
I know Walmart has not been ethical in the past. It is pretty obnoxious about some of its positions. Now it has been discovered that in Mexico, they used millions of dollars to bribe various cities/towns to hasten the process of building new stores.........lots of them. I don't know if this means they put stores where the general consensus was the public didn't want them, or if they paid to just rush it through "due process" or what. I know alot of you refuse to shop there.
My conflict is that I live out in the country. The Walmart in the small town nearby is about 10 miles away. If I went to Target, it would be about 21 miles away. Meijer is about 30 miles away. I could pay a whole lot more and buy necessities at Kroger. I could drive all those extra miles to go to other stores, but then I'm polluting the air more/using more gas, etc.
I felt better about our local Walmart a few years ago when they allowed me to post flyers of a missing boy, when other businesses wouldn't. they have great electric carts for people like me who can't walk that much without having alot of knee pain.
Part of me wants to absolutely boycott them, but part of me also doesn't want to travel so far, use so much gas, inconvenience myself so much, have my legs hurt so much, etc., etc. I'm conflicted. I want to go there, but feel like I'm really selling out. :(
Sometimes I feel that way, especially in a store that is new to me, but being able to go and shop in the middle of the night is helpful.
I like WalMart. We shop there all the time.
There are two WalMart supercenters within a 15 minute drive, although in opposite directions. They are clean, have a large inventory of items we may want or need and they employ hundreds of my neighbors.
WalMart also welcomes us to park our motorhome overnight in their lots when we're off exploring South Dakota or Arizona or Texas or Florida or North Carolina or wherever the winds may blow us.
No complaints here!
Us too!
When we go into town (which means a 160 mile round trip with a diesel truck) it means going into Flagstaff, AZ. It means we stop at several stores, including either a WalMart or Sam's (no Costco's in Flagstaff, closest one is in Phoenix, I think), or both. We also go to New Frontiers Market, a store called Farmer's Market, maybe an Ace Hardware and then out for lunch or dinner. We have never been to a Target in Flagstaff, did not even know there was one until I just looked it up. But it is not a super like the Walmart is, so it would not have food, and that would be the only reason we go to Walmart or Sam's, for food.
I really don't care what their policy is on employees or if they bribed someone. If their prices are good, I will buy from them. I will make sure that their food comes from the US and not Chile or China or other places, but sometimes you just don't know. But the turn-over for food is pretty high, they always have stuff in stock, and the people are friendly and happy they have jobs.
And then when we go across country with our 5th Wheel RV, they offer us a free place to stay. And if we stay under their lights, they recharge our batteries (solar panels on the roof will recharge the batteries - almost as good as daylight!)
Now Sam's tries to be as good as Costco, but they are not, however, they are cheaper than Costco, their membership is cheaper, and their prices are better. Plus, they have the lesser expensive stuff. Went to Costco back in February, they had gotten rid of Lemon Juice in a plastic bottle and replaced it with a much more expensive "haughty" brand in glass. NOT good. Sam's had the cheaper brand in plastic. Bought from Sam's.
I have found that Costco is getting more into the named brands of foods or the higher, more expensive types of food and Sam's is not. But when you come right down to it, the simple normal foods of veggies, fruits, meats and cheese, are just better from a store that has a high turnover rate like Sam's, Walmart, or Costco rather from a regular grocery store. And that is why I go there.
I had to laugh when I heard about the bribery scandal in Mexico. Last December in Plano, TX I attended a construction fraud seminar. Two of the other attendees worked for WalMart Mexico; one a Director of Construction, and the other one, his Manager of something-or-other construction. In March, they both showed up again for a construction auditing seminar.
I remember at the auditing seminar, the instructor was asking them how WalMart Mexico could comply with WalMart's policy of zero tolerance for gift giving or gift getting, given that corruption is a way of life in Mexico. They both swore up and down that no funny stuff was going on, at least to their knowledge.
small & friendly
6-9-12, 11:15pm
It seems to depend on your location.
Our small town is about fifteen miles out in the country. Before Wal-Mart came to town the only hardware cum general merchandise store was overpriced and run down. Wal-Mart built their store off-set from the surrounding area. It actually made that particular area look nice and they keep it well maintained.
I spoke with one of the employees recently and she said if it wasn't for Wal-Mart she wouldn't have a job.
Our store is reasonably clean. I have never had a problem returning something or getting a price match. And I have never, ever seen anyone being forced by gunpoint to shop there.
:)
I know Wal-Mart is Satan's store. I hate their business model and how they treat their employees, the environment, undercut all other competitors so they don't stand a chance.
However, I am a teacher running a household on my one income. Two years ago I took a pay cut and I haven't gotten it back yet, much less a cost of living increase or step increase. I will retire from my job never having made up what I've lost in the past 2 years.
Several years ago I decided that I was going to stand up ethically for the things that were the most important to me--animals. When I volunteer or contribute money to causes it's to animal causes. I can't save the entire world and much as I feel for those suffering because of Wal-Mart, I can't afford not to shop there. And I do hate the experience. But groceries at Wal-Mart are a full 20% cheaper than at any other store in my area. That's a lot of money.
So yes, I do shop there. Although, every time I think of them, the owners, the stockholders, the Board or management, I do damn them to Hell. And if something even close to as good a deal as Wal-Mart with even half as crappy an attitude toward humanity and the environment opened up, I'd drop Wal-Mart in a second.
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