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View Full Version : Issue with volunteering- what would you do?



herbgeek
4-27-12, 7:18pm
There was an ad on the website of our local historical museum looking for a volunteer to weed the herb garden. I added in my response that I have 25+ years working with herbs.

In response, I got an email asking me to fill out their volunteer application. They want to know my work history, all the places I've gone to school, what languages I speak, permission to contact my employer, permission to contact other places I volunteer at. And there's more. All to just spend an hour or two a week weeding.

I'm debating whether to just tell them no thanks, or whether to question whether this is indeed necessary.

This is the hardest application I've seen for volunteering, it looks like a job application. I've seen other places that make volunteers jump through hoops or provide information that is not relevant to the task, but this one is the worst. And yet I'm always hearing that its is difficult to get people to volunteer these days. <sarcasm> I wonder why. </sarcasm>

fidgiegirl
4-27-12, 7:22pm
I'd probably skip it myself. You could be honest and say it's way too much.

The only reason I could see it is if you will be working alongside youth. Groups are (rightly) very cautious about who they sanction to interact with the children and youth in their care.

peggy
4-27-12, 8:58pm
Yea, i think I'd skip it too, but I'd let them know why. Give them a chance to justify this ridiculous application. Let them know that although you really wanted to help, you find this application intrusive and unnecessary to simply weed for a few hours a week. Although you might find their explanation silly and certainly not worth your time, you might find justification in the process.
Whatever happens, do let us know what they say. I for one am curious as to why a volunteer organization would want things like job history, or permission to contact your previous employers.

freein05
4-27-12, 9:11pm
I would ask why they need so much info. When I started volunteering at a local state park I did not need to fill out such an application. I did need to get finger printed and a back ground check done by the local sheriff because I handle money for the park and work with youth. If I did not do that the park would not have required anything.

herbgeek
4-27-12, 9:12pm
Is this too snarky?

My response:

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm a little confused at your request however. I was volunteering to help in weeding the herb garden. I mentioned in my initial contact that I have 25+ years of experience in growing and using herbs. You've asked me to fill out what looks like a job application, with education, work experience, references, foreign languages, permission to contact my employer, permission to contact other organizations I volunteer with.... While I do have an MBA, and 30 years of work experience in software development, none of my employers or the professional organizations I've volunteered with are going to be able to attest to my ability to weed a garden. I don't understand the relevance of the questions on this application to the specific task at hand. Could you help me understand the reasoning behind this? If you are only looking for degreed horticulture graduates for weeding, I completely understand.

Rosemary
4-27-12, 9:19pm
I love it! It is snarky in a polite way (hats off to you!), but whether it's TOO snarky, only you can judge! I think it would be good to push back at least a little because, as fidgiegirl said, really the only reason to ask for that much info is if you're working with people, particularly kids.

herbgeek
4-27-12, 9:32pm
This is mostly working alone, or under the supervision of a paid staff member. Likely not with the public at all, and certainly not in historical costume where a patron could think I worked there. I definitely understand the caution of organizations that work with kids, and all the information they need. But even there, it would be the information they needed to do a criminal/background check, not what these folks are asking for.

Tradd
4-27-12, 9:34pm
Love your response!

Float On
4-27-12, 10:08pm
Your response is perfect!

Simpler at Fifty
4-27-12, 10:55pm
I don't think it sounds snarky at all.

razz
4-27-12, 11:19pm
Sounds good to me.
I wonder, though, if it might be a form application for all activities in the facility with no regard to the actual position. Theoretically, you might start out weeding the herb garden and then choose to move into more involved positions like board member or even to being a curator. How would they deal with screening for that scenario after the fact when you have been volunteering for a few years?

iris lily
4-28-12, 1:26am
I don't know how big your town is or the size of your museum, but the bigger professional places have a thorough volunteer screening and training program. You'll probably have to sit through an initiation session as well. The application is, of course, for doing any volunteer job be it weeding or conducting tours for kindergardeners. Once you've been entered into the program you would potentially be moving around in other volunteer jobs.

I don't think it's out of line, what they asked you to do. If you don't wish to take the time to do it, that's entirely your call.

redfox
4-28-12, 2:12am
I wonder if simple would be good... Just a drop-in to ask why so complicated. It's possible they had a very bad expereince with a volunteer, and are being über cautious. I always assume good people made decisions & choices with the best of intentions... The context of which one would have no idea.

Rogar
4-28-12, 10:49am
I thought your response was very appropriate! I volunteer with our county open space and the application was not quite as detailed but close. They were even going to do a background check. I just left a lot of the inappropriate or unnecessary info fields blank and no one ever asked for them.

AmeliaJane
4-28-12, 11:15am
I am going to give a different perspective, as someone who has worked with these small historical museums quite a bit...

The staff at these types of institutions is usually insanely overworked, and often working in areas outside their area of expertise (ie, the office manager manages the volunteers, the curator teaches the programs for visiting schoolchildren). My guess, knowing only what you've told me, is that the staff probably borrowed that application from another, larger institution with different needs or perhaps does have positions where they need more information (ie, where volunteers are around the collection, so they need to know more about them) but don't have the staff time to reconfigure it for cases where they don't really need to know that much. Or perhaps they have had a situation in the past where someone was trusted who shouldn't have been, and now the board has gone too far the other direction in trying to make sure everyone around is trustworthy. The number of abuses at these types of institutions is really sad--the national association for small local museums had hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen by an insider, and if anyone should have known the risks and how to protect themselves, they should have.

So as someone who has been on the receiving end of that kind of email, I would encourage you to be just as kind as you can. Drop any hint of sarcasm, even polite snarkiness, and terms like "ridiculous" (I know that was another poster, not you.) In fact, if you can, pick up the phone or go see these folks. They are usually underpaid, overworked people who in most cases are just trying to do the right thing by a lot of different constituencies.

They do need to know that some people are being put off by the application, and you can do them a real favor by bringing it to their attention in a kind way. And maybe you will get a cool reception (in which case, do you really want to volunteer there?) But I do believe it's worth your time to try. And thank you for caring about your community.

Gregg
4-28-12, 12:20pm
Great response herbgeek. Lot less snarky than mine would have been! Seriously, I would just fill out the contact information, give them a personal reference or two and add a paragraph regarding your experience under job history and write N/A all over everything else.

JaneV2.0
4-28-12, 1:21pm
I'm surprised there are volunteers at all for many of these outfits--aside from the forced volunteerism foisted on students--considering the hoops one seems to have to leap through and the way one is often treated afterwards. The only really enthusiastic volunteers i know work for busy, successful no-kill shelters--even if no one else appreciates them, at least their furry charges do.

herbgeek
4-29-12, 10:50am
Update: I got some excellent feedback from this board, as usual, as decided to save the snark until she actually needed it. I responded with "I took a look at your application. Its both extensive and invasive. Which sections do you actually need me to fill out". If she insists of all of it, then I will send something close to my original message, and decline to participate. If she responds with reason, I will respond with reason.

Thank you for your perspectives! I've learned that when I'm feeling uneasy of whether I should do something, I often should delay and think about it first. :)

Nella
4-29-12, 3:20pm
Or perhaps they have had a situation in the past where someone was trusted who shouldn't have been, and now the board has gone too far the other direction in trying to make sure everyone around is trustworthy. The number of abuses at these types of institutions is really sad--the national association for small local museums had hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen by an insider, and if anyone should have known the risks and how to protect themselves, they should have.They do need to know that some people are being put off by the application, and you can do them a real favor by bringing it to their attention in a kind way. And maybe you will get a cool reception (in which case, do you really want to volunteer there?) But I do believe it's worth your time to try. And thank you for caring about your community.Ditto. I think that's exactly why they're asking for so much information from a prospective volunteer. One bad "incident," leading to a lawsuit could virtually bankrupt and ruin an otherwise community oriented and service minded organization. I'd probably go ahead and fill out the application, but let someone there know that it's not a pleasant process and that it's off putting to possible new volunteers. There might be a way to soften the process and still get the information they need, thus ensuring that their visitors and assets remain protected, but still shows they are engaged in recruiting volunteers and respecting their time and efforts.

sweetana3
4-29-12, 6:43pm
Never been asked to fill out other than a liability request unless working with children when a background and criminal check is necessary.

I think they gave you the employment application. I too would not provide such information unless working with children or money. Hey my husband works with power tools and all kinds of adults for Habitat for Humanity and has not had to fill out other than a liability statement. The city ditto when working at Animal Care and Control as a volunteer. The huge senior center does not require it here either.

herbgeek
4-29-12, 8:08pm
For what its worth, this is a multimillion dollar nationally known historical museum. There hasn't been a scandal (well at least not one that hit the papers). This application was more invasive than any application I've ever seen for a paying job! For my other volunteer work, there's never been any sort of paperwork, you just talk with the people in charge and see if there is a match. I guess I was put off that the volunteer coordinator insisted I fill this out BEFORE we actually talked. Why should I spend hours filling this in when I'm not even sure this is going to work? Why would I burn my references for a VOLUNTEER position when I may need them for a real job? Why not just try me out for a few weeks and if you think I'm incompetent, tell me there isn't a need for me any longer?

Gregg
4-29-12, 11:13pm
I think they are confused about who is offering to do something for who.

frugalone
4-29-12, 11:21pm
Can't recall if I told you I tried to volunteer for a local library, and they said it was "too much trouble" to train volunteers because "they just leave." Well, jeepers, it's a volunteer position...maybe someone would like to try it out before committing? If someone offered me free work, I'd take them up on it. Esp. with all the library budget cuts etc.

Sheesh.

herbgeek
5-3-12, 8:18am
What I actually did:

Sent a quick email saying the application is extensive and invasive, which sections which you like me to fill out for this weeding position?

The response was "you must fill it out completely, and in addition, fill out a CORI form." Note: I would not be working with money OR children, this would be under the direct supervision of an employee. In other words, complete overkill. You have to jump through exactly the same hoops if you were employed, only you get no money.

I declined her offer. I also offered why I thought the application was invasive, or why the app could be seen as intimidating to possible volunteers.

I know it will go no where, but I at least wanted to offer something helpful. She really had no clue that there was anything someone could object to on the application. As someone stated earlier, I really believe it is a case of someone being confused on who is doing a favor for whom.

fidgiegirl
5-3-12, 9:55am
Too bad! They lost out on a good potential volunteer because of it.

ljevtich
6-4-12, 2:30pm
Is this too snarky?

My response:

Thanks for getting back to me. I'm a little confused at your request however. I was volunteering to help in weeding the herb garden. I mentioned in my initial contact that I have 25+ years of experience in growing and using herbs. You've asked me to fill out what looks like a job application, with education, work experience, references, foreign languages, permission to contact my employer, permission to contact other organizations I volunteer with.... While I do have an MBA, and 30 years of work experience in software development, none of my employers or the professional organizations I've volunteered with are going to be able to attest to my ability to weed a garden. I don't understand the relevance of the questions on this application to the specific task at hand. Could you help me understand the reasoning behind this? If you are only looking for degreed horticulture graduates for weeding, I completely understand.

Yes, it was too snarky. Way over and above. It does not matter if you are "just weeding" or something else. As a Volunteer you would have been representing the museum.


I don't know how big your town is or the size of your museum, but the bigger professional places have a thorough volunteer screening and training program. You'll probably have to sit through an initiation session as well. The application is, of course, for doing any volunteer job be it weeding or conducting tours for kindergardeners. Once you've been entered into the program you would potentially be moving around in other volunteer jobs.

I don't think it's out of line, what they asked you to do. If you don't wish to take the time to do it, that's entirely your call. Exactly.


I am going to give a different perspective, as someone who has worked with these small historical museums quite a bit...

The staff at these types of institutions is usually insanely overworked, and often working in areas outside their area of expertise (ie, the office manager manages the volunteers, the curator teaches the programs for visiting schoolchildren). My guess, knowing only what you've told me, is that the staff probably borrowed that application from another, larger institution with different needs or perhaps does have positions where they need more information (ie, where volunteers are around the collection, so they need to know more about them) but don't have the staff time to reconfigure it for cases where they don't really need to know that much. Or perhaps they have had a situation in the past where someone was trusted who shouldn't have been, and now the board has gone too far the other direction in trying to make sure everyone around is trustworthy. The number of abuses at these types of institutions is really sad--the national association for small local museums had hundreds of thousands of dollars stolen by an insider, and if anyone should have known the risks and how to protect themselves, they should have.

So as someone who has been on the receiving end of that kind of email, I would encourage you to be just as kind as you can. Drop any hint of sarcasm, even polite snarkiness, and terms like "ridiculous" (I know that was another poster, not you.) In fact, if you can, pick up the phone or go see these folks. They are usually underpaid, overworked people who in most cases are just trying to do the right thing by a lot of different constituencies.

They do need to know that some people are being put off by the application, and you can do them a real favor by bringing it to their attention in a kind way. And maybe you will get a cool reception (in which case, do you really want to volunteer there?) But I do believe it's worth your time to try. And thank you for caring about your community.

Totally!


This application was more invasive than any application I've ever seen for a paying job! For my other volunteer work, there's never been any sort of paperwork, you just talk with the people in charge and see if there is a match. I guess I was put off that the volunteer coordinator insisted I fill this out BEFORE we actually talked. Why should I spend hours filling this in when I'm not even sure this is going to work? Why would I burn my references for a VOLUNTEER position when I may need them for a real job? Why not just try me out for a few weeks and if you think I'm incompetent, tell me there isn't a need for me any longer?

Just because you believe it should work a certain way does not mean that it would be that way. They still have to take the time to show you stuff, even though you might be great at weeding, they might have other things to train you on. And after they have trained you, and taken the time to get to know you, they are not going to go and say there is no need for you. The amount of added time to already overworked underpaid folks would not make their lives easier. And that is what a volunteer is supposed to do, make the paid folks time easier not to give them more work.

A multimillion $ nationally known museum is going to have lots of people applying to volunteer because some folks might ultimately want a job there. There are liabilities to you volunteering, from just about anything like getting stung by a bee to tripping over the sidewalk to getting struck by lightening or a car. You getting hurt on the "job" makes them liable. And they would have to pay workman's comp! So No, having to have all of those things down is not unreasonable.

And actually for this expensive museum, I imagine there is also the culling out factor. There are probably lots of people that want to volunteer there, and this application makes it possible for the overworked underpaid folks to get only the very best, extremely grateful folks who want to (more than likely) work there for free.

JaneV2.0
6-4-12, 2:39pm
This is one reason I'm particular about where and how I volunteer. Too many institutions make you feel like they're doing you a favor instead of the other way around. That "extremely grateful" part made me laugh out loud. :D

ETA: Anyway, what with students and people working off public service sentences, there should be enough involuntary volunteers around to meet demands. I say spend your time on a pedicure or a good book. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/diablo.gif

iris lily
6-4-12, 3:44pm
I use volunteers sparingly and have never really had a completely good experience from beginning to end. One particular woman created an amusing situation by often telling me how to run my department of 25 people (which I pretty much brushed off) and only later, when I noticed that she hadn't come in for some weeks, did I learn that she had stormed into the EXEC Dir's office to demand that I be fired due to incompetence. Guess who was "fired" instead? I don't need any more of that but thanks for volunteering! Not.

Now, in my neighborhood work where EVERYONE is a volunter, yowza! There's a very high degree of competence and talent. But from people off the street? Not so much.

ljevtich
6-7-12, 3:04am
To the OP, I would suggest looking for a different volunteer opportunity. There are always lots of them around. If you are close to a state or federal park, the application process is usually a breeze. You are very appreciated and usually thanked each time you come in. I know with the NPS, there are ~ 1000 full time year round employees, ~ 15,000 seasonal employees, and ~ 200,000 volunteers. If the NPS did not have those volunteers, we probably would not be able to have most of the parks open and available for visitors. http://www.volunteer.gov/gov/index.cfm is a great place to check out the volunteer opportunities with federal and state.