View Full Version : Why are so many people ashamed of riding the bus or walking?
Tabula Rasa
1-26-11, 7:27pm
I've come across more people who say they wouldn't be caught anywhere waiting for the bus or walking.
I don't believe the fears of social suicide are realistic when it comes to riding the bus or walking.
Thoughts?
It probably all starts in high school when someone turns 16 and has a car. It's just another status symbol. Only losers take the bus.
After taking public transportation in Japan where EVERYONE takes public transportation my husband and I moved here to SoCal and have chosen not to get a car. I do get some strange looks as to why we don't have a car but we just don't feel the need to have one. We'll rent one if we really need one for something but that's it. We take the bus, trolley, bike, walk, whatever.
I choose to 'be the change I want to see in the world' - Gandhi. I take the bus and am very happy w/the extra savings in my pocket =) Dhiana
Tabula Rasa
1-26-11, 7:49pm
When I was in high school, I took the school bus. After that, I took the transit bus to college, and didn't get my first car until I was 23. I enjoyed riding the bus, and I never participated in the high school craze over getting one's driver's license and all.
So I guess it's a mindset I just can't wrap my mind around!
:laff:
I do like walking and walked to work a couple of miles each way when I lived in L.A. Actually, I moved close to work just so I could do that. But I never was a fan there of taking the bus. The buses were dirty, didn't run on time, many of the drivers were rude, and you often had to stand for quite a long time after working all day. (Why are seatbelts required in cars but not on buses?) The last time I posted my dislike of buses Sylvan said I was 'bourgeois'. I guess I am. :moon:
Ah, I do miss Sylvan:-) I walk most place and take the bus often (usually when I am running late and the bus will get me where I need to go quicker than walking). I live in a very walk, bike, bus friendly town so haven't really met anyone who seems alternative transportation as a shame thing. My kids both walk or bike to school and take the bus to the stores, movies, friends, and the like.
Simplemind
1-27-11, 12:57am
Weather permitting, I love to walk to work. It is only a couple of miles away.
loosechickens
1-27-11, 1:19am
I think it's because in this country, other than in some places where lots of middleclass people take public transportation, like NYC, it has a "flavor" to people of poverty. The feeling is that anyone who COULD have a car, would, so the only people left who "need" public transportation are losers. Yes, it's ridiculous, but it's real.
And since it's more the poor who ride buses in many places, and the poor in this country are often minorities, even racism gets mixed up in there with classism.
I know that both my mother and my MIL even resisted MIGHTILY, even riding the little buses operated by their retirement communities, and would do almost anything to avoid going in them, that "anti-bus" prejudice was so strong.
People feel like that about traveling by Greyhound, too. Not too many middle-class folks riding The Big Grey Dog.
I wish we had the attitude of Europeans, where EVERYBODY practically uses public transportation, and the public transportation systems are wonderful, but in this country in most areas, the public transportation systems are NOT great, and so no one except the people who HAVE to use them, do, which means that they don't get improved. It's a vicious circle.
I haven't run into too much of that attitude. I do know a lot of people who don't want to take the bus, but it's usually for reasons like Cheryl gave. Inconvenience, inability to get where they need to go, poor service and other things like that. I'll be honest, that's why I don't use the bus more too.
A lot of my neighbors that work downtown ride the bus everyday. My dad did too when he worked downtown. If you're going from suburb to suburb though it's not likely to work out. I once looked up how long it would take me to get from my old apartment to my old job, four miles or so down a main road. An hour and a half each way. You had to go downtown and catch two more busses back out to the 'burbs.
I don't see any stigma about walking. That might be a cultural thing. Minneapolis actually has one of the highest number of bike commuters in the country in spite of our harsh winters. Most people I know walk or bike some for transportation.
I've run into this a lot. My commute is part walking part bus. I have people say to me, "I HATE public transportation" and "The bus? I could never take the bus." ?? Really? What are these people planning on doing when gas is $15/gallon?
I had a friend who would drive 1/2 block from his office to the gym because "Someone might see me walking with my gym bag." ???
I was visiting a BF's parents in Columbus, OH - they lived in a suburban development. We were invited for dinner to a house about 1 block away. They refused to walk because "what would people think?"
I cannot fathom that attitude. It promotes gratuitous use of fossil fuels. not to mention obesity.
For me, taking the bus builds character in me and builds community in my city. Builds character because sometimes it's late (learning patience) and sometimes there are people on there who are less fortunate or have issues (learning tolerance and compassion). Builds community because I regularly chat with fellow bus-takers and bus drivers. I'm not in my shell of a car all by myself, insulated from the rest of the world.
On the buses I take there are often people with seeing eye dogs. I am happy for the reminder that there are people out there who don't have the luxury of sight.
Sorry - this turned into a bit of a soliloquy about the bus. :|( But around here, yes - the idea is that only the poor take the bus and goodness knows, you wouldn't want to be counted among "those people". Ugh.
I lived 5 blocks from my office and often had people "offer" to take me home by car. My response was that by the time we got to their car and got thru traffic, I would be home. I loved the time to think and enjoy the seasons that walking offered. My husband often walked the 1.5 miles to work and carried his office on his back in a special backpack. The only thing that stopped him were some problems with his feet from walking on concrete all day.
Now we are retired and love to walk downtown. The bus however in Indy is a different issue. For years during the 70s and 80s, we used it to get to work together. But those days when it was not on time or broke down were a bummer. Our bus went straight each way. I would not want to try and transfer.
I've only used the bus a couple of times in my 20+ years here. Mainly, because anyplace I'd take the bus to is just as fast to walk, by the time I wait for it. I don't hate the idea of the bus at all, I just hate wiating for it.
The last time I apologized for using a car to get to an appointment a block away was a few months ago. My beloved rescue dog, Mabeiline, refused to walk to the grooomer's place. She went 1/3 of the way and refused to go futher. She is such a Queen, she must be ferried about in vehicles. I had to tell her new dad not to expect much walking out of Mabeline.
Miss Cellane
1-27-11, 10:22am
Here in the greater Boston area, there's not as much of a stigma attached to using public transportation. If you live outside the city, driving during rush hour is a nightmare. Parking in the city runs about $30 a day, unless your job provides parking for you--but that's usually restricted to the higher ups in the company. Rush hour starts at 6 am and ends around 9:30. In the evening, rush hour is well established by 3:30 pm. Taking the "T" is a sanity saver.
There are a lot of renters in the Boston area, more so than in most of the country. If your apartment is near a bus stop, your rent goes up. If your apartment is near a subway station, the rent goes up even more. The closer you are to public transport, the higher your rent. It's cheaper to live a mile away from a bus stop than half a mile, and more expensive to live within a block of a stop.
But I do think there is a hierarchy of public transportation, even here, where past govererners have taken the T to the State House every day. At the top is the Commuter Rail, a light train system that extends far out into neighboring cities and towns. Most people drive to Commuter Rail stations and pay to park in their huge lots. (Although I have two brothers who walk to their closest stations every day, either a mile or a half mile.) They take the train and either walk from their destination or take the subway.
Then there's the subway/above ground trolley. It's been expanded to reach for several miles north and south of Boston proper. The end stations have large parking lots or garages. There's one about a mile from my house. Those who don't want to pay the $7 a day parking fee drive into my neighborhood and clog the streets with their parked cars.
A large proportion of Commuter Rail and subway riders may have cars. They are just choosing to ride the T because it is easier or cheaper or faster. But when you get down to the lowest level of public transport, the humble bus, there's a tiny bit of snobbery. Most people will walk to a subway stop if it's at all possible, rather than take the bus, at least amongst my acquaintances. It's usually not that far, the bus adds an extra $1.50 to your fare sometimes (there are places where transferring from the subway to a bus is free), and the buses are slow, especially in rush hour traffic.
Perhaps it's because this is a city, and parking and driving are a hassle, but everyone pretty much walks anywhere they can. Why give up a good parking space, that you circled the block 4 times to get, to drive a mile and have to struggle to find another parking space? I'm lucky that my apartment came with a parking space. In Boston proper, apartments either don't have parking, or you pay extra every month to rent a parking space. If you don't have parking, you can either hunt on the street (most neighborhoods have resident permit parking) or you can rent a space in a garage by the month. Or you can buy a space in a parking garage, starting around $30,000. There are parking spaces for sale at prices up to $200,000, but I think those are in fully staffed garages where you can get mechanic services, or they are really, really, really convenient located.
Frankly, in a large city with good public transport, a car can be more of a liability than an asset. But most of the US isn't designed that way.
I wish I could take the bus. The transit system here is more of a glorified taxi service. >:( I live 3miles from work so I bike when I can.
But I agree, the bus is equated with the poor. Fortunately for me, my mother grew up in NYC so bus taking in our upstate NY city was just what one did.
screamingflea
1-27-11, 1:02pm
There are a lot of situations where mass transit plainly stinks. I refused to sell my car in my last city because of all the ubiquitous creepy drunks on every bus. The people allergic to any form of soap, the hustlers and aggressive types. Who would want to subject themselves to that voluntarily? That, and all the interminable waiting times. I always felt that anyone using the bus system did so for lack of other options. Being unable to drive for whatever reason isn't something to be ashamed of, but it isn't a badge of honor either.
Here in my new city the mass transit is a completely different game. The buses are clean, the people using them are clean, they run on time, the drivers are courteous. In a very different political climate a lot of people are proud of not owning cars, and it's a much smaller square mileage so it's easier to get around without one. Yesterday I was able to crate my cat and bus her to the vet without raising an eyebrow anywhere in the process - I would never have been able to do that in my last city. That says a lot right there. So I guess it has a lot to do with the quality of the mass transit where one is.
screamingflea
1-27-11, 4:08pm
For a more direct answer to the OP, I don't think not-bus-riding is a question of shame or a sense of inadequacy. Rather, there are many situations for which mass transit simply isn't an option.
At least in my neck of the woods people in general seem to be more proud of the fact that they can walk or take the bus, rather than shameful. It takes a big chunk out of the hassle of traffic and parking.
IshbelRobertson
1-28-11, 8:19am
Public transport is not viewed in the same way in most European countries as written about here!
In the main, our buses run a fast, well-run service, with frequent buses, too. I tend to only use a car when doing a large supermarket run, or somewhere that has no direct route by train or bus.
I lived in London for a few years, and the tube and buses, whilst overcrowded, were a great boon - the tube being much faster than buses or cabs.
Mind you, when London underground union leaders call a strike, it makes for absolute mayhem!
As Ishbel says, public transport is viewed differently in North America than it is here in Europe.
Living where I do, it's just assumed that someone walks or takes public transport to get from A to B. Driving comes third. I only know a handful of people who are licensed to drive. Hooray for cities and towns that were built before the advent of cars :)
Where I am, it is often associated with poverty, as well, at least if you are riding the slow buses and buses outside the city core. If you ride an express bus (which doesn't cost any more, but only goes from parking areas to a few main areas) downtown then catch a local bus in the city core then it is viewed differently. Then, people bill themselves as eco-friendly or as wanting to get some extra work done during their commute.
I think that another reason many people don't want to ride the bus is because they want to shop. It is not easy to transport purchases home on the bus. It is also difficult to take large purchases --such as big bags of dog food -- home on the bus in the U.S. They don't like for you to have a suitcase, even, in most city bus routes. A backpack that you can hold on your lap or put between your legs is fine. Anything bigger and you run into problems on a lot of city buses.
ApatheticNoMore
1-28-11, 12:47pm
Why don't people take the bus? It takes twice as long to get anywhere as driving. Then like I've said some bus lines are just horribly unreliable and choose not to come whenever they feel like it (I happen to know someone well who is really and truly living the carless life like I said. They are desperately calling for rides in such situations). Then there are whole parts of town you can't even get to by bus after say 9pm. I know I've wanted to go to the bars there and let's just say not drink and drive :) Stigma has to be way down the list I'd think.
Make no mistake peak oil and the like and people will be using busses, but they leave a lot to be desired so long as other choices exist.
So funny - I was just telling people at work that I plan to sell the car and rely only on the bus. The reaction: "But aren't the people on the bus lowlifes?!" That was the very first thing that was mentioned. There's a stigma there, alright...
My response, fwiw, is that there are blind people riding the bus and poor people. Just because someone is poor doesn't say anything about their character.
How do I hate city buses? Let me count the ways...Really, I took them for years and years and years due to working downtown and wanting to avoid parking hassles. I took them at almost all hours of the day and evening. I will still take them on rare occasions, but I consider them a last resort, due to factors others have mentioned: waiting, lost time, long, meandering routes, and sometimes problematic fellow riders. Not to mention I'm not crazy about crowded conditions and really treasure my privacy. I do walk for errands on occasion, and can't imagine anyone else would think anything of it. People walk around here all the time. Mostly attached to dogs, but still...Bus commuting is common here, as well. The Park and Rides are always full.
I like the bus in theory, but between the waiting, the stops and the transfers, it takes me at least half an hour longer to get to work that way, and I have better ways to spend that time.
I do, however, appreciate that our home is well-located near several bus routes. So we can walk to the beach (downhill) and take the bus back (uphill) when we are tired, get around by bus if one of our cars is in the shop, and take the bus to the airport.
It's too bad light rail and subway systems are so much more expensive to install than busses. The NY subways are rather unattractive, but still astonishingly fast compared to any sort of street traffic solution. And one of the few places in the US where, unless you're in the class who takes taxis or a car service, subway travel is just how ordinary people get around - no stigma there.
It's a social stigma. Not having a car. Not being ABLE to afford a car? And often the kind of people on busses are the the bottom of the pond type and that creates it's own dynamic.
gimmethesimplelife
1-31-11, 12:44am
I think it's because in this country, other than in some places where lots of middleclass people take public transportation, like NYC, it has a "flavor" to people of poverty. The feeling is that anyone who COULD have a car, would, so the only people left who "need" public transportation are losers. Yes, it's ridiculous, but it's real.
And since it's more the poor who ride buses in many places, and the poor in this country are often minorities, even racism gets mixed up in there with classism.
I know that both my mother and my MIL even resisted MIGHTILY, even riding the little buses operated by their retirement communities, and would do almost anything to avoid going in them, that "anti-bus" prejudice was so strong.
People feel like that about traveling by Greyhound, too. Not too many middle-class folks riding The Big Grey Dog.
I wish we had the attitude of Europeans, where EVERYBODY practically uses public transportation, and the public transportation systems are wonderful, but in this country in most areas, the public transportation systems are NOT great, and so no one except the people who HAVE to use them, do, which means that they don't get improved. It's a vicious circle.I remember when I visited my mother's family in Salzburg, Austria, a city of only a few hundred thousand people, how amazed I was at how wonderful the public transit there was and what a broad cross section of society seemed to be riding it.....I also had this experience living in Portland, OR, which has AMAZING public transportation for a city of it's size. But now I am in Phoenix, a very auto dependent city, and notice here too with the economy being what it is, there seem to be more people of different walks of life riding the bus, and now we have light rail, which seems to me to have more cache than the bus, as I see many well dressed office workers commuting on it these days.
About Greyhound - I guess I am a bit bougeious (sp?) after all - I have had some really unpleasant experiences riding Greyhound and would rather not unless I absolutely have to. Back in the day when I was working at an upscale pizza place during the housing boom and making really good money (think 2005, 2006) I used to spend weekends in Tucson and I would take Crucero down, which at the time was a Mexican busline and much, much, much nicer than Greyhound. Seriously there is no comparison. Interesting reverse snobbery (?) I know some people who thought it was. Rob of the North Rim Summer 2011
I live in the UK where most towns and cities have an excellent public transport system. There is however still a stigma amongst some people where buses are concerned. I sold my car last year and have no plans to get another. I used to take the bus into work and one day my boss called me into a meeting about my travel arrangements and practically told me I needed to get another car!!!!! Her thoughts were that I just wouldn't be able to make it into work in the winter by bus!!!!
Needless to say I no longer work there, I have a new job which I get to by train. One of my new colleagues also sold her car and didn't replace it and she walks to work. No one at my new job has berrated me for being without a car, I feel so much better for not having to explain myself.
The time is definitely another concern. A drive that takes me 20 minutes in the car can take 90 minutes with a city bus by the time it makes all of its stops and by the time you transfer. I can't take 90 minutes to go each way each time I want to go somewhere.
Plus, if I didn't have a car I would be in a lot of trouble. They dropped service after 6 PM this year on one section that I would have to use a lot. Most of the bus goes until 9 or 10 pm.
The buses in a lot of cities don't start early enough to get people to an early first shift job (where you must be to work at 6 or 7 am) and end before people go home from 2nd shift. Makes it hard for people to get to and from work.
A lot of people mention the increase in travel time as a deterrent to taking the bus/train/underground. I love using that time to read, listen to music or sleep. I can't imagine having to be alert at the wheel every time I went somewhere. How exhausting.
mira - right on. To say nothing of the time drivers spend having their oil changed, buying gas (and working to pay for the gas), shopping for a new car, selling the old car, having repairs done, shopping for tires and having them put on, etc. etc.
My bus/walk commute is generally relaxed and social. I've befriended my fellow travelers and it's a nice part of the day. Way better than when I was arriving home or at work all upset and stressed about traffic and other drivers.
Before I had kids, I didn't mind the time on the bus so much. But my toddler needs to eat and be dropped off at a certain time in the morning, then picked up from daycare and fed and put to bed in the evening. The flexibility of the schedule is limited and I would rather spend that time with DD than on the bus.
If it takes you half an hour extra each way to get to work that's 20 hours a month. Not everybody has an extra 20 hours a month to spare for transportation. Mira and CatsNK, I can see your point if it's an extra 10-15 minutes, but that's not the case for a lot of people.
I'm a SAHM so I don't commute at all, but we gave up on the bus for DH because of the extra time. It's a 15 minute drive, but an hour and 15 minutes by bus each way which would extend his day by two full hours, or 40 hours a month. That's a significant chunk of time.
screamingflea
2-2-11, 12:24pm
Much of yesterday was an exercise in non-car-having aggravation for me. I knew it would come along sooner or later.
For a little background, my extended family gave me an old Burley trailer for hauling groceries and my dog as needed. The plan I had worked out for hitting my favorite discount grocery store across town involved riding my bike and trailer to a Park And Ride stop, riding the 41 that would take me directly to the store, then the 43 would take me back the Park And Ride from which I could haul my loot home on the trailer. Complicated, but I'm willing to give it a shot. The store has a fantastic selection and the best prices in town.
So yesterday I opened the communal bike storage shack to find that someone had stolen the batteries out of my headlight and trashed the light in the process. That was a good half-hour detour to Wal-Mart to grab a light I didn't like at $20 I couldn't afford. From there to the Park And Ride. Another 20 minute wait in the cold. As the bus pulled in at the store, an intuition prompted me to call the number on my EBT card to check the balance - it was zero as they were late processing my benefits. So I just managed to scramble across the street to catch the 43 home - if I hadn't it would have been another 30 minutes of freezing.
Net result? About 3 hours of my day shot to hell for nothing. If I had a car the headlight wouldn't have been an issue, and the aborted grocery run would have taken half an hour.
The moral? I guess the time-vampire factor is about the same either way. It just depends on how you prefer to spend it; inside in waiting rooms listening to intercoms and watching crap tv, or out on the sidewalk in the elements, breathing fumes, and watching traffic go by.
:treadmill:
Bus riding turned what might have been a 9.5-hour work day into 12 hours for me, thus costing me over 12 hours a week. When I commuted to school a few years back, the ride (with transfer) took easily three times as long as driving would have. Not a minor consideration.
I live in Boston - I don't own a car. My work is downtown, although I almost exclusively work from home. Within walking distance I have access to bus (at the corner), 4 more bus lines a 10 minute walk away, commuter rail, zipcar, Enterprise car rental and even more bus lines a 20 minute walk away or about 8 minutes by bus. And the subway and taxi stand is about a 12 minute ride by bus. I can't justify the cost of owning and maintaining a vehicle.
Oh yeah, and not too long ago MBTA made bus real time GPS information available so there are lots of apps for tracking buses. I can sit in my house and watch my bus come on the web or my phone and not leave until the bus is like 3 minutes away.
It all really depends on your situation. But even if I had a car available, I'd choose public even if it took a bit longer. I hate sitting in traffic (while I'm driving), and I hate looking for parking spaces.
I wish I could take credit for this, but it's Ivan Illich:
The model American male devotes more than 1600 hours a year to his car. He sits in it while it goes and while it stands idling. He parks it and searches for it. He earns the money to put down on it and to meet the monthly installments. He works to pay for gasoline, tolls, insurance, taxes, and tickets. He spends four of his sixteen waking hours on the road or gathering his resources for it. And this figure does not take into account the time consumed by other activities dictated by transport: time spent in hospitals, traffic courts, and garages; time spent watching automobile commercials or attending consumer education meetings to improve the quality of the next buy. The model American puts in 1600 hours to get 7500 miles: less than five miles per hour. In countries deprived of a transportation industry, people manage to do the same, walking wherever they want to go, and they allocate only 3 to 8 percent of their society's time budget to traffic instead of 28 percent.
screamingflea
2-2-11, 1:58pm
S
My response, fwiw, is that there are blind people riding the bus
That's a whole 'nother kettle of fish right there. The bus simply isn't accessible to a lot of people with disabilities. I have some blind friends who wouldn't even discuss riding the regular bus - they can't find their way to the stops without taking their lives into their hands. Other passengers and even drivers are often openly hostile to anyone using a service dog. Some wheelchairs simply aren't compatible with the setup at the front of the bus, and of course there are a lot of streets and sidewalks that are unusable for wheelchairs so they can't get to the bus stops anyway.
Paratransit helps, but many cities are cutting back on what is a very expensive system. They offer door-to-door service but it's possible to miss the bus that way too. I tried using it for a while, and found that the driver will report a no-show if the passenger isn't physically on board 15 minutes after the driver knocks. That can be a big problem if someone has mobility issues such that it takes them a while to get to the door, down the sidewalk, etc. A lot of passengers get stranded that way in my city.
I'm not pointing this stuff out to dump on the bus or paratransit systems. In most cities they work very hard to comply with ADA regulations and I applaud that. It's just another illustration of why mass transit isn't a panacea.
I live in Boston - I don't own a car. My work is downtown, although I almost exclusively work from home. Within walking distance I have access to bus (at the corner), 4 more bus lines a 10 minute walk away, commuter rail, zipcar, Enterprise car rental and even more bus lines a 20 minute walk away or about 8 minutes by bus. And the subway and taxi stand is about a 12 minute ride by bus. I can't justify the cost of owning and maintaining a vehicle.
Oh yeah, and not too long ago MBTA made bus real time GPS information available so there are lots of apps for tracking buses. I can sit in my house and watch my bus come on the web or my phone and not leave until the bus is like 3 minutes away.
It all really depends on your situation. But even if I had a car available, I'd choose public even if it took a bit longer. I hate sitting in traffic (while I'm driving), and I hate looking for parking spaces.
I have to agree. I also live in the Boston area (Cambridge) and don't own a car. Sitting in traffic and looking for parking is very stress inducing. Since I live within 10 minutes of 3 bus lines, red line, commuter rail and for the occasional time I need a car several ZipCar locations. It seems that those who claim to be ashamed of riding transit or walking have been brainwashed by the car industry. While I have had an occasional problem with the T, on the most part they do the job well. And it is a lot less stressful than driving.
Miss Cellane
2-2-11, 4:46pm
There's also the fact that in Boston, if you are near a subway or trolley stop, public transportation can be the same time or even faster than driving, at least at rush hour.
I have a car, mostly because I owned it before I moved back to the Boston area and I have free parking at my apartment. I use it once a week to run errands (I could bring that 40 pound bag of cat litter home on the bus, but it's easier in the car), and to visit family and friends who live where public transportation isn't practical. My brother lives half an hour's car ride from me, but the snag with Boston public transport is that you have to go into the center of the city to get where you are going. On the T, getting to my brother's is about 2.5 hours on a weekday during rush hour. On a weekend or holiday, with far less service, it's 3 hours.
But I never, ever drive into Boston proper. In large part because I'm so used to walking and taking the T everywhere that I don't know which streets are one way, and there are a lot of one way streets. Parking is at least $30 a day in a garage, or you can spend a lot of time hunting for a spot on the street.
Because there is decent public transport here, I'd rather spend a little longer on the bus, being able to read or write lists or even daydream, than sit in traffic, unable to do anything but gnash my teeth at the constant delays and traffic jams. As pubtran says, it's a lot less stressful than driving.
I moved back to the Boston area a few years ago, and the quality of the public transportation was one of the factors that drew me back.
If it takes you half an hour extra each way to get to work that's 20 hours a month. Not everybody has an extra 20 hours a month to spare for transportation. Mira and CatsNK, I can see your point if it's an extra 10-15 minutes, but that's not the case for a lot of people.
That's understandable. There are a lot of variables.
If I had a car, I'd have to drive the same route as the bus and would probably end up getting stuck behind it in traffic anyway, so it's a kind of stalemate situation.
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