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View Full Version : Create Jobs: Help People OR Corporations?



heydude
1-26-11, 11:00pm
It seems the political world splits between:

1. Give tax cuts and benefits to businesses so that they have more money available to create jobs.

2. Give benefits to people / government services so people spend causing businesses to create jobs.

(fund education so people may improve employment opportunities/be able to compete in the world, fund government so property taxes, sales taxes, etc. do not increase on the individual causing them to spend less, fund police forces, etc. so no jobs are cut just adding to the problem, fund unemployment benefits and safety net programs so people continue to spend, which would in turn divert money to businesses so they can hire more people).

Does anyone have any insight as to any real evidence on whether or not any of these idealogies actually work? I am thinking that both have their potential to work or not to work and that a solution for creating jobs is probably a combination of both as well as other things that are not a part of these two choices.

For number 1, just because businesses have money, does not mean they'll dish it out in the form of salaries for more workers. Many companies seem to be cutting jobs and shipping their jobs over seas even in the midst of record profits. Businesses want to make money period. They don't want to make money JUST SO they can hire more people. They will always try to do with less and less. If there is no need to actually hire more people, then they won't (more profits does not automatically equal a need to hire). They'll keep the tax cut money and use it for something else (bonsues, buying out other companies to in turn slash more jobs with the merger, etc. etc.).

But of course, if they are doing well, they would be more likely to expand things and hopefully in turn expand jobs. And, a corporation is certainly not going to hire more people if they are not making any money or have no new money. Tax cuts could provide some money. In theory, you would think it would work, but I don't believe it is as cut and dry as tax breaks automatically equals more hiring.

As for 2, more education does not necessarily mean more jobs, funding services so property taxes, etc. do not go up, etc. to free up money for individuals does not automatically equal more spending (especially as people, LIKE ALL OF US HERE, choose to own less and down-size). Although squeezing individuals will certainly cause them to spend less even if they will spend less if they were not squeezed so much.

Thoughts? Insights? Opinions?

Gregg
1-27-11, 7:03am
I will simply state (for now) that the two are not mutually exclusive.

Jemima
1-27-11, 12:13pm
I don't believe either one works very well. IMO, the only thing that's going to save the economy is to get real about what's truly necessary and produce it. This would mean bringing a lot of jobs back from overseas, primarily manufacturing, but also high tech and customer service jobs that are now being performed by people who can barely speak English. Farming in this country needs to grow. Why are my fruits and vegetables coming from Chile and Canada when I live in an area that used to be farmland? Most supermarket brands of apple juice come from China. WTF?

Corporations need to start using some common sense as well. Once when I was shopping at a nearby Safeway store I noticed the free range eggs came from Vermont. Meanwhile, there's a large poultry farm five miles away that sells them and does, indeed, supply a family owned supermarket in the area. The eggs from Vermont were about 40% more expensive.

Sometimes I wonder if it's going to take the severity of a Peak Oil crash to get us back on track. It would be so much more pleasant if we would look ahead and take steps now to be a more self-sufficent country and to be more self-sufficient as individuals.

Gingerella72
1-27-11, 1:33pm
I have to agree that more education does not mean more jobs. My DH just graduated in Dec. with his Masters and is more than qualified for his field but is facing the dilemna where jobs that used to only require a masters or less are now requiring even higher degrees. The job hasn't changed, nor has the pay, but businesses are just being over-the-top uber-selective in this lousy economy. And if he chose to go even further into debt to get his PhD that's still no guarantee he would get a job. At the moment he is the highest-educated bag boy at the supermarket he works at.....the only place in the area he could find employment.

ApatheticNoMore
1-27-11, 1:45pm
I don't believe either one works very well.

I don't think either works very well either. The unemployment payments are preventing more and more outright poverty IS ALL, I'd say. BUT .... that is worth something, perhaps more than we are paying for it! One might suggest they are preventing revolution, but I don't actually think revolution is likely anyway. It is certainly possible they are preventing more crimes of outright desperation and the like.

Funding education, well ... aren't there a lot of people coming out of college right now with few job prospects (and yes some of them are liberal arts majors and so on, but they aren't all!). The whole education thing has become education inflation. More and more education is "required" in order to do the same jobs. Oh, I want consumers - no scratch that citizens - no scratch that fellow human beings!!! - that can actually think as much as anyone does, but education inflation for jobs that used to take a high school degree, is not the answer. In fact it represents a tremendous waste, call it a large transaction cost or whatever, it's just a waste (wasted time getting education just for credentialism etc.).


Sometimes I wonder if it's going to take the severity of a Peak Oil crash to get us back on track. It would be so much more pleasant if we would look ahead and take steps now to be a more self-sufficent country and to be more self-sufficient as individuals.

psst: Transition Towns. Transition Towns are this looking ahead at being more self-sufficient now. Our politicians are either all bought out, or as dense as logs, or I don't even know what anymore, this is why the solution has to start from the ground up. I agree it WOULD BE NICE if Obama would spend 90% of every dime he spends on infrastructure on reducing our needs for fossil fuels etc.., but that's not going to happen. Put not your hopes in Obama :)

loosechickens
1-27-11, 1:46pm
I tend to agree with Gregg.....the two concerns are not mutually exclusive. As in most other things, we probably do best when we consider the needs of all parties and come to some kind of answers that provide win/win solutions, which are often there if we look hard for them.

Jemima
1-27-11, 4:45pm
psst: Transition Towns. Transition Towns are this looking ahead at being more self-sufficient now. Our politicians are either all bought out, or as dense as logs, or I don't even know what anymore, this is why the solution has to start from the ground up. I agree it WOULD BE NICE if Obama would spend 90% of every dime he spends on infrastructure on reducing our needs for fossil fuels etc.., but that's not going to happen. Put not your hopes in Obama :)

Could you give me some leads on reading material about Transition Towns? What an interesting idea!

I remember reading sometime back that Flint, Michigan, was encouraging people to move back into the city, start gardens, et cetera, but that must have been a year ago at least, and I've never heard anything further.

I'm not putting my hopes in Obama or anything else at the Federal level. I've thought for a long time that our country is too big and too diverse for a "one size fits all" government. I believe we can reclaim government for ourselves, but it has to start at the local level and possibly stay there.

ApatheticNoMore
1-27-11, 6:21pm
There's a movie: "Transition 1.0".

In addition there's a book "The Transition Handbook: From Oil Dependency to Local Resilience".

Local transition initiatives are starting up all over, so if you are lucky you might be able to find one locally (if you are unlucky you may have to start one ;) ) It is a very serious attempt to deal with our problems.