View Full Version : How do people learn to organize and clean?
Off and on over the past 5 years, I've helped a friend with her house. It is an ongoing problem. She and her family - husband and elementary-aged boys and a dog - live in a large house, about 3000 square feet plus full, finished basement. Every room of the house is piled high with stuff. It is the most cluttered and least clean environment I have ever personally experienced.
This summer her boys are with a relative for a few weeks and we're trying again. I really hope she can get it all done. She talks as though she is motivated but when I'm over there working, she really seems to putter along at a snail's pace. The problems I see are:
- she doesn't know how to prioritize tasks and gets sidetracked into grand projects very easily. The immediate need is to make the house a safe and hygienic place to live, but she had the idea today of putting water sealer on the outdoor wooden play structure.
- she has some physical limitations and works very slowly.
- she can't seem to say no to her boys and they do not respect her instructions when she tells them to do something. They also do not respect anyone's property in the house and are constantly wrecking and disassembling things. One of the boys is on the autism spectrum but is mainstreamed in school. Both boys are capable of following instructions and doing age-appropriate chores - but even when she's started, she lacks follow-through.
- her husband seems to have some sort of acquisition problem. always buying stuff, even when the same thing is in the house. I think they have about 12 Costco-sized jugs of laundry detergent, for instance. Multiply that by just about everything they have, including groceries.
- the state of the house is impacting everyone's life in a negative way. Her marriage is not very happy at this time; her boys can't have friends over; she is stressed out.
Anyway, I could go on, but that should give an idea of what's going on, I think... Now, the question is:
What is the best way to help her? In the short term, I am just providing free labor to get the house into some sort of order. But she needs to learn how to organize stuff on her own, and how to keep things reasonably clean. How did you learn to declutter, organize, and clean? What motivates people to keep their spaces clean and tidy? What would you recommend for someone with physical limitations who can't afford a housecleaner?
Tussiemussies
7-9-12, 5:07pm
It sounds like they need help from a professional for hoarding. Very sad.
Hoarding (which also involves the type of situation you described) is a very complex mental disorder. It is not something an ordinary individual is normally able to change in another person. I once got advice about a cat hoarder in our neighborhood and the answer from the experts was I could either choose to help and be hurt in the process with the lack of change or let it go and have the professionals get involved.
We tried for two years to get the issue sorted but finally other neighbors called the police and it took Animal Care and Control, police and Health and Human Services to resolve the issue. The woman was intelligent and fully capable but had a total mental block to what was going on. There was no way the neighbors were going to get her to change her mind or living situation. She believed that God called her to help the abandoned cats and she was the only one who could do it.
I think you are proposing to get deeply involved in someone else's life and try to change it. Remember there is a husband and children around that will be affected by your actions which you think are totally fine but they may think are bossy and rude. If they are also not on board any cleaning or decluttering actions will be fruitless.
I suggest you watch the shows on TV about hoarding to see just what happens to even the professionals providing free help of all kinds. I am so sorry I don't have a solution that will work. In most cases, it takes an outside threat that is believed (losing children to CPS, eviction, police action) to even begin for the people to try and make a change.
I really suggest you give your advice to her but step back a space from this friend who has shown, by your 5 years of effort, that it is not a change she is capable of making at this time. Just be there to support her when she finally decides to make some changes. Maybe make it perfectly clear that this time it is the last time. You can give her books on organizing etc. but if she does not read them and make them a part of her life, it is again fruitless. There are many on the market.
Simpler at Fifty
7-9-12, 5:25pm
I would recommend a professional organizer that specializes in hoarding. It is a mental issue at this point. Can you afford to pay for a consultation with a PO for her? That might show her how much you want to help.
www.organizerswebring.com/members/UnitedStates/New_Jersey_Organizers.asp (http://www.organizerswebring.com/members/UnitedStates/New_Jersey_Organizers.asp)http://www.napo.net/Referral/
Your friend and her husband and sons have to want to change their behaviors before any long-lasting change is possible. Without wanting an organized house (and, by extension, life) and without destroying others' property, these folks will not internalize what they have to do to keep it that way. And your friend's behavior the other day -- slowness, lack of enthusiasm, substitute activities -- fairly scream that she either does not see this as a problem for her and her family or she really does not want to deal with the issues underlying the hoarding and destructive behaviors.
Originally posted by SteveinMN.
Your friend and her husband and sons have to want to change their behaviors before any long-lasting change is possible.Bingo. This topic goes hand-in-hand with helping people. You cannot help others who aren't willing to help themselves... MHO (my honest opinion), learning organizational/cleaning skills comes by way of desire.
awakenedsoul
7-9-12, 9:32pm
Oprah had a show on with a woman who was a hoarder. Oprah had the house cleaned professionally for her, and told her she better keep it this way. (She was going to go back and check up on her.) It's hard to understand how people get this way. It takes discipline to keep a home clean and organized. You really have to commit the daily time and have structured habits. It sounds like she has gotten into terrible patterns. There are a lot of people like this in America now. She sounds like she's avoiding it to me. It's very sad for her family and for the dog.
The over consumption is a big part of it. Everything you buy needs care and maintenance.
I don't know the answer. I wouldn't want to get involved with a woman like this. It sounds to me like a lot of work on your part and I doubt that she'll change. It's nice of you to want to help her, but it's not your responsibility. She sounds very ungrounded. A lot of fanatical people get this way.
Thanks for your thoughts.
My friend is seeing a therapist, but her husband has refused to. He apparently prefers to berate her for the condition of the house and continue buying more stuff that they don't need. It happens that he works out of the state most of the week and is only home on weekends, so the time during which he can add more clutter is limited.
Currently, three rooms are spic and span - the kitchen, laundry room, and half bath - and she can really see the difference in them and has commented over and over about how much bigger and brighter they feel. So she can see the benefit - but she gets really overwhelmed when confronted with a disaster. I have to admit, the laundry room was overwhelming to me when I tackled it today - but I was able to step back and just pick a place to begin. And it took less than 3 hours from start to finish - but I work at least 10 times faster than she does.
Frankly, I don't feel like I'm 'involved' in the situation; I'm viewing it as physical activity in a cool, air-conditioned space when it's hot outside. I hope that she can keep up with things afterwards, and I'd like to give her some resources that have helped others, but I've learned from past efforts that I can't care about the outcome. And ideally, the resources should be short and to the point, not organization books that require hours to read.
Just to be clear, it wasn't my idea to do this; she began in the kitchen and was making good (but slow) progress before I offered to assist.
I am not a hoarder by any means, it's because of my physical problems that I haven't been able to clean up the clothes I no longer wear that has prevented me from getting it done...until today.
I have a care aide come every early evening to prepare my dinner, but because I had leftovers to warm up later, I asked her to start bagging up the clothes. She got two large garbage bags full of good, usable clothes to give to a charity. My son will pick them up on the weekend and drop them off at the Sally Ann shop. These include a lovely navy silk dress I no longer need, plus 3 silk blouses, all in excellent condition. Since I'm pretty much housebound now, I can easily get by with a couple of pairs of long pants, 2 pair of light pants for the warmer weather, and a few short and longsleeved t-shirts, some sweaters, 3 jackets depending on the weather, plus two pairs of shoes and a pair of high leather boots.
This was only the start to get rid of some of them. I haven't tackled the coats and jackets yet, let alone the dishes, baking pans, kitchen utensils, etc., but it was a good start. It makes me feel good to know that others will soon be wearing them.
I have had a couple of people use Flylady on the web for organization help. It has specific help and lots of web reminders. I think it is based on taking small steps and getting in a weekly habit. It is meant to reinforce the habit. The friends were converts.
www.flylady.net
ps: my previous response would have been changed due to the additional information you gave. Flylady would help her once she gets over the bump which you are helping with.
What is the best way to help her? In the short term, I am just providing free labor to get the house into some sort of order. But she needs to learn how to organize stuff on her own, and how to keep things reasonably clean. How did you learn to declutter, organize, and clean? What motivates people to keep their spaces clean and tidy? What would you recommend for someone with physical limitations who can't afford a housecleaner?
Speaking as a house cleaner, I would venture to say that the problem here isn't how to clean and organize, so much as it is how to declutter and par down those possessions. Everything in it's place and getting rid of those things that are not needed and being able to keep new stuff from getting in. One problem with buying more may be that her dh can't see how much they already have. But if the laundry room has those 12 boxes stacked neatly, laundry baskets set aside and an ironing area and NOTHING that doesn't belong in the laundry room, then he'll see they don't need more. If it's on the floor behind stuff or with stuff piled around, then he may not be able to actually see the boxes for the clutter around it.
I clean a house like this. Stuff everywhere, not unsanitary but just a ton of stuff. I spend more time moving things to clean, than I do actually cleaning. When the family replaced the carpeting in the living room and decided to get new furniture we moved everything out and I only brought back in what was needed. In other words, the room was presented as a finished room and not a room full of stuff. No clutter, no kids toys piled high etc... The other cleaner and thought of taking bets as to how long it would stay that way.... turns out we are going on 8 months. That room became a clutter free zone and is actually kept clean and organized. So getting rid of the clutter actually made a huge diffference in how this family saw the room and how they treated it. Now if we could get them to move onto the rest of the house......
I agree with all the other posters. She has help herself by being willing to allow mental health professionals help her.
If what you were doing was really having an impact the house would be finished by now. It has been 5 years. Don't kid yourself that it's getting better because a few rooms are clean--for now.
You have such a big heart, Rosemary. In speaking for myself, I can enter the homes of others and immediately sense whether or not homemaking and cleanliness is at the top of their list.
Those who quickly (and haphazardly) pull-together their homes for company, tell on themselves, because nothing is ever truly clean and polished, and missed areas are always so noticeable.
I put in 3 more hours this afternoon, and she had 2 teens she's paying to do work. Filled the back of my van with stuff to take to Goodwill for her tomorrow. We filled 2 garbage bins and a recycling bin that were just emptied yesterday morning. There is real progress happening. She is sounding upbeat and happier than I've heard her in a long while.
Miss Cellane
7-11-12, 7:41pm
My question is, does your friend have hoarding tendencies or just her husband? I can see how someone who just isn't an organized person can get overwhelmed living with a hoarder and two teens who create mess and don't clean it up. A lot of responses here seem to think that the wife is a hoarder as well as the husband, but I don't necessarily see signs of that.
I think it is primarily her husband who has the problem with buying, buying, buying more than they need and keeping the house crammed full of stuff. She has eliminated most of her own excess stuff, and when we were cleaning out her basement a couple years ago, she let most of her personal stuff go. She has little in the way of coats, clothes, shoes, whereas he has copious quantities. Her issues seem to lie more in the area of just not knowing what to do, not prioritizing housework, and not expecting her boys to even pick up their own messes. And her physical problems make it difficult for her to keep up with not only her own daily mess in the kitchen (caused by not putting garbage right into the trash can, leaving dirty dishes on the counter for hours or days, etc -- this is something that could be fixed if she is open to developing new habits), but the messes of 3 others.
All I can add to what others have said is that I went to a Clutterers Anonymous meeting recently and got some great literature from it. That might be a good additional support system for her. She will need long-term support for dealing with these issues, and neither she nor you should expect that you can provide that. You will eventually burn out if you are her only helper besides her therapist.
If she really goes into recovery with her hoarding (and it sounds like she is on that path), Al Anon may eventually help her cope with her husband's hoarding.
I agree with others that it's important for you to help only if she is helping herself too (and it sounds like she is).
You are right to be concerned that the work you both are doing now might not help if she doesn't maintain it. I agree that flylady is incredibly helpful.
It might be good too if when you go over there to work, you have her sit down and take some time to think about what things are most important to deal with immediately and why they are most important and then write them down and check them off together. When I make a to do list now I actually call it a "priorities" list and that really helps me be more effective. Getting her in the habit of taking that time to think clearly before she starts just randomly decluttering will be a big help, I think.
Good luck and please keep us updated!
Miss Cellane
7-12-12, 8:52pm
Sorry, this turned into a very long post. I've dealt with two hoarding situations in my family, so I'm coming at this from my own experience.
From what you've said, Rosemary, your friend does not sound like a hoarder. Her husband might be, though. If she can easily get rid of things, she's not a hoarder. She may have a clutter problem, she may be messy, she may not know how to clean. But a true hoarder has a very difficult time letting go of things, even broken things and, in some cases, trash.
From your posts, this is what I see as your friend's situation.
1. She is a single parent most of the week.
2. She has physical issues that make doing housework difficult.
3. She has a husband who is a hoarder and who brings home useless or unnecessary stuff and won't part with any of it.
4. She has no systems in place for tidying the home, or cleaning the home.
5. She might have an issue, like Adult ADD, based on your description of her not being able to prioritize.
Taking these one at a time.
1. I'm not a parent, so I have little to offer here. But I suspect having to carry the full weight of running the household and caring for the kids 5 days a week is taking its toll on her.
She can get the kids to help her with some of the chores. I'd suggest a positive reinforcement system. Have the kids do chores/help around the house for some form of payment. Could be cold hard cash, could be minutes on "screens" (TV, computer, video games, Nintendo DS, iPad, whatever), could be whatever the kids would want to work for--a trip to an amusement park at the end of the summer, a new book, brand name shoes for back-to-school. The rewards could be different for each kid.
Also, look at chores the kids could do, but can't right now because they are too difficult. Example: If the kids leave their clothes all over their bedroom floor every day, you need to make it almost as easy to put them in the laundry as it is to drop them on the floor. So, no fancy hampers. Get a laundry basket with a big, wide, opening at the top and put it in their bedroom, right out in the open. All they have to do is toss the clothes in from wherever they are in the room. And make the basket a size the kids can carry when it's full, so that they can carry it to and from the laundry room.
If they can't get their own snacks, rearrange the kitchen so that their food is easy to reach and prepare. Move things around so that they can get their own cup or plate, and then put the used dishes in the sink or dishwasher.
Key rule: The more steps a person has to do to accomplish a task, the greater the likelihood that the task will never get done. Look at simplified ways of doing chores, easier more convenient ways of storing supplies, etc.
2. I'd like to point out that if her husband stopped the excessive shopping, they would probably have enough money to hire some household help. If that can't be accomplished, could she hire a teenager for two hours a week, at $10/ hour, and have the teenager do some of the chores that she can't physically do and the kids are too young to do? If the teenager could clean the bathrooms and kitchen, your friend could focus on other areas of the house. (I know two sisters who established quite a college fund by doing housework for friends and neighbors while they were in high school.) Or hire a college student to do the after-school shuttle runs with the kids, from school to sports and stuff.
If she is having difficulties getting her husband to understand her limitations, the Spoon Theory might help: http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/
3. No one can cure her husband of hoarding. But his stuff can be contained. One way is to designate an area of the house that is his. Preferably a room. He can put whatever he wants in there. Stuff he leaves elsewhere in the house gets put in there. Once his space is full, he is not allowed to let the stuff migrate to other parts of the house. He has to deal with the stuff.
In addition, set limits on the amount of laundry detergent, etc. that can be in the house. She should sit down with him and together establish limits--probably higher than she would like and lower than he would like. Then set up shelves somewhere to hold this stuff and *label* them. This is important. Label a shelf "Laundry Detergent (5)" for the 5 bottles of detergent they have agreed on. "Dishwasher detergent (3)" "Toilet paper (50 rolls)" and so on.
One important thing. She should not get rid of anything that is her husband's without his permission. If he finds out, there is a huge chance that his hoarding will intensify. He may even start preventing her from discarding her own things, or start checking the trash daily to see what he needs to retrieve from it. My experience is that you need to respect the hoarder's need for the hoard, while at the same time setting some boundaries on it, so that it does not impact the rest of the family.
4. Systems. This is the big one. Without systems in place, it is going to be very hard for her to keep up the current state of the cleaned rooms. She needs to figure out a schedule--how often each chore gets done.
Here's an example, from my own house. I live alone with one cat, so I don't clean as often as someone with kids and more pets.
Daily:
Swish & swipe bathroom. (Basically wiping down the sink and counter and cleaning the inside of the toilet.)
Wipe down kitchen counters and stove top. Sweep kitchen floor. Wipe out sink. Wash dishes that don't go in dishwasher.
Make bed.
Tidy the living room a hour before bedtime--put everything that's out back where it belongs.
Scoop cat's litter box.
The daily stuff keeps the house sanitary and functional. If I don't wash the good knife and the pots and pans I used for dinner tonight, I'm not going to want to cook tomorrow, because I'll have to clean everything before I can start cooking.
Weekly:
Tidy (put everything away where it belongs), dust and vacuum living room, dining room, bedroom, office.
Deep clean bathroom.
Deep clean kitchen.
Deep clean one of the following: living room, dining room, bedroom, office. Deep cleaning means moving furniture and vacuuming underneath it, dusting baseboards and window sills, tidying inside drawers and cabinets.
The weekly stuff keeps the house looking presentable. It also keeps things from getting lost in mounds of clutter.
Your friend would have to alter this to fit her house and the most important rooms. As you can see, I keep the bathroom and kitchen clean on a daily basis, but I'll let the other rooms accumulate a week's worth of dust and general debris before I feel the need to deal with them.
Keep the systems simple. Since your friends has physical issues, she might explore some of the one-use wipes and things that are out there. This is not something I would recommend normally. But depending on what her issues are, where it might be hard for her to handle a spray bottle with cleaner and a sponge, she might be able to wipe down the kitchen and bath with a disposable wipe. While the general population doesn't really need these things, I think for many disabled people they allow a certain degree of independence and the ability to do their own housework. By the same token, she should investigate a lighter-weight vacuum, or one that propels itself, or even a Roomba, which will do the majority of the vacuuming for her.
And I'd take a good, long hard look at why she can't get the trash into the trash can. Is it that she's too tired? Is the trash can too far away from where she generates the trash? Even a few feet can turn "easy peasy" into "heavy duty chore." If the lid of the basket is awkward to open when your hands are full of trash, try a lidless basket, or one with a foot pedal to open the lid. Given her physical problems, she needs to experiment to find the absolute easiest way to do everything.
In addition, she needs to find a "home" for every single object in the house. Tidying up can take just a few minutes when you know where everything belongs. When you have to figure out a place for something to go, it takes a lot longer, and lots of people just give up. And the clutter builds and builds. Once she's found a home for something, label the spot.
I can't say enough about how labeling storage spaces has changed the neatness level in my house. Once I labeled two little drawers "Mailing supplies" and "Computer suppllies" I stopped shoving every loose object that would fit into them. And I started putting the mailing and computer supplies away every single time I used them. I live alone and have tons of labels in closets and cabinets, on boxes and bins. It would be even more useful in a family, where there are several people looking for things and then trying to put them back where they belong.
If she has multiples of things, label the things with where they belong. "Kitchen scissors," "Office scissors," "Craft closet scissors." Everyone will know where they belong. And putting them away will take just a few seconds.
5. Your friend might discuss being tested for ADD or ADHD with her therapist.
And I'm going to recommend two books, even though you said you didn't want book recommendations.
One is Peg Bracken's I Hate to Housekeep Book. Some of the specific hints are a bit out-dated, but it's a funny look at housekeeping from the perspective of someone who doesn't really enjoy cleaning house.
The other is The Organizing Sourcebook by Kathy Waddill. This book deals with the underlying issues that cause people to stop cleaning their homes because they are completely overwhelmed, and gives a roadmap on how to get back to normal. I have found it very useful.
Miss Cellane, thank you very much for all of those details. There are many great ideas there that I will pass on to her. The details about dealing with a hoarder are good for me to know because it is difficult for me to understand how he can keep buying stuff when the house is full to the rafters. I know that she has been taking medication for adult ADD for some time already, so you're on target there, too.
One thing I pointed out to her is that when there's stuff all over the floor, anyone can get the mentality of "I'll just throw this on that pile, what the heck, everything else is there and no one cares." I Know because I've found myself thinking that in the past few days when we're over there!
We've been sorting, tossing, and labeling like crazy. Today we tackled her sons' room, which was disgusting. I saw a bright spot in that her sons are spending the entire month with their aunt who presumably is not letting them throw trash all over her apartment - hopefully they will develop some better habits.
The task is so large that I don't see it being done before the boys return. Things will be cleaner, and neater, but the closets, garage, and basement will still need to be cleaned and organized.
I talked about setting some house rules, #1 to be NO FOOD ANYWHERE BUT KITCHEN/DINING ROOM! I'm telling you, that bedroom was gross.
You know what?
I would say that the toughest part for her is really simply having too much of everything. Too much space in the house that needs to be maintained. I mean, 3000+ sq ft of house that needs to be maintained? It would be a monumental task just to keep the dusted, vacuumed and tidied -- let alone washed (with vinegar and such).
Add to that the fact that she has *so much* stuff, and likely a lot of other tasks to be getting on with in her days PLUS the fact that she has a level of disability. It's honestly a recipe for failure.
That failure, in turn, because a 'feedback loop' wherein every progress she makes is quickly undone, and then it's a massive task to get it redone.
Imagine if you will, a situation as follows:
You spend the day with her cleaning the laundry room and reorganizing it. If her children were anything like my sister, the end of the day finds a full hamper (my sister tends to wear 3-6 outfits a day -- yes, even still). So, with two children, her hamper is full. If she adds what she is wearing, and then, say it's the day to wash the towels and she has at least 3 bathrooms (say, two full and one half), then she also now has at least 4 big towels and 3 hand towels to wash, plus perhaps 4 wash cloths. All of the sudden, the "piles of laundry" that you got through have "repiled."
She's just spend the day cleaning it, and at the end of the day, the hamper is over-flowing, and the clean laundry is just barely finished in the dryer and she ahs to fold that yet. You went home for tea. she went to her clean space to enjoy it only to discover it's a disaster again.
Sad, really, because she can never feel caught up.
So, where to begin?
First, as someone said, they have to be committed to change.
With this, they need to talk about -- openly -- the changes that need to be made. For example, decreasing the amount of "stuff" that they have, or that they buy, or both. Once they start there, it's a good start.
Second, they'll need to make a commitment to tidying. This has made a HUGE difference in our lives. The fact taht DH and I tidy the offices AND the house every day makes a HUGE difference in our lifestyle. It's not just 'they won't listen!" (with the children), it's simply that it needs to be done. If everyone commits to doing the basics, then there you have it.
And I'm not one much for it, but a mom online created a "chore bin." If you leave an object out after tidy time, it goes into the "bin." In order to get it out of the bin, you draw a chore from the envelope on the side. The bin is just a rubber-maid style bin with a lid. The rules are pasted on the side. If you don't do your chore to get your item out, in X weeks, it's off to charity. Obviously, it wasn't that important to you.
While a lot of people in my parenting circles say that it's rude -- and maybe it is -- it looks like a fairly effective idea focused on consequences rather than out-and-out punishment. And it make encourage those boys to tidy away their things. LEft our your legos? SOrry, kiddo, but you have got to do a chore to "earn" it back. And next time, how much you want to bet that the kid will tidy away his things?
I'm fairly certain it works.
After the commitment to tidying, they need to observe actual room use. Which rooms are used and which are not? Those that are not can be decluttered, cleaned, and closed off. There's no need to dirty a room that isn't used regularly. They might also discover that not using the room saves them both time and money (and may decide to downsize, take on roommates or whatever to turn that into an economic benefit). They might discover that 3 bedrooms, one living area, and the eat-in kitchen, a laundry and 2 baths are enough. Focusing on keeping *all other areas* clean and free of clutter would be essential to having nice places for guests or what have you.
I suggest that, as my mother does, simply clean the rooms quarterly and close the doors. Do not heat those rooms, and do not use them for any thing other than guests. Or, empty them entirely (even of furniture) and don't use them at all.
Finally, once this has all been sorted, the next task is to determine how much the woman's disability inhibits her ability to keep up. No doubt that beyond housekeeping, she's also in charge of the social calendar of the family (and in particular, the children). She might also be in charge of their specialized therapeutic needs, which can be quite a hefty task. IF she is also in charge of day-to-day tidying (cooking, cleaning up after, tidying in general, and laundry), it might be enough work for her. It may be that hiring a cleaning service to do the weekly "heavy lifting" of cleaning the house would be of benefit to her.
Instead of spending money on "stuff" they can spending it on helping her keep the place sanitary for all of their benefit. It would be much better than buying excess laundry detergent for certain.
Finally, something like flylady or similar may help. Small tasks that become habitual *are* the key. Fly lady doesn't work for me because the list looks ridiculous and long and silly. But, other methods can be developed for her.
IN our household, we do a tidy before leaving the house, and we do a tidy before dinner. There is then a tidy just before bed time (a very small one, as DS usually only has 3-5 toys out at that time and we can easily pop them back into their baskets, and then one of us does the dinner dishes). By having these end-of-day tidy times, the house is really picked up. I then do my chores on Thursday Am (30 minutes) and Friday pm (30 minutes), and I fold the laundry after DS is in bed and put it awy then (i do that while watching tv, but it takes less than 30 minutes).
It makes a *huge* difference for us. Massive.
but, it's about creating what works for you. Usually, when I'm home with DS (and friends) all day long, I actually do several tidies. DS wakes and plays independently, so I'll tidy just before breakfast (if DH is making breakfast -- and he usually is). Then DS leaves, and DS plays. If DS has friends coming, I'll do a tidy before the friends arrive (again, 5 minutes!). And then let them play, and tidy when they leave. And then again at dinner and bed times. Mostly because I see it as a play "reset" and it also calms me down (i feel less anxious about the mess). It works well for me.
For others, that's way too much. One friend just does one tidy per day at 7 pm. That's it for her. that's what she and her husband do. 7 pm to 7:30 is tidy time. Kitchen, dirty clothes in hamper/wash/etc, pick up kid toys, and sort the bathroom a bit. Quick and easy with two people doing it. THat's what works for them.
It really just depends on the people. Flylady works for a lot of folks, but it's adaptable to how your firend "works" in her mind.
SteveinMN
7-14-12, 10:40am
If her children were anything like my sister, the end of the day finds a full hamper (my sister tends to wear 3-6 outfits a day -- yes, even still). So, with two children, her hamper is full. If she adds what she is wearing, and then, say it's the day to wash the towels and she has at least 3 bathrooms (say, two full and one half), then she also now has at least 4 big towels and 3 hand towels to wash, plus perhaps 4 wash cloths. All of the sudden, the "piles of laundry" that you got through have "repiled".
When I was learning to cook, I somehow managed to use pots, pans, and utensils WAY out of proportion to what was being prepared. Then my mom told me that I had to clean up the dishes I dirtied in prep. Suddenly I got a lot more efficient. :|(
If your friend's kids are old enough to dress themselves (I don't remember seeing their ages listed in previous posts), they're old enough to help in the house. The kids can start by washing clothes. Funny how three to six changes a day might slow down if it means spending a chunk of your own time later rather than waiting for the Laundry Fairy to take care of it. (Secondarily, maybe there's just too much clothes in the house and some simplification there would not be unrewarded.) Ditto for loading the dishwasher (even if the House Dishwasher Master [every house has one lol] has to move a few things around before it's run). Ditto for light prep work in the kitchen -- taking out the recycling/trash, mixing food, maybe peeling and slicing for the older kids.
I'm going to venture a bit further out on the limb here and suggest that maybe towels don't expire automagically on a given day of the week. I don't know if all of those rooms are full baths used for showers and toilet activities every day; that makes a difference. But if one of them is a half-bath that's used primarily by guests, maybe the towels get a week off because they're not used that much. Or that bathroom is declared "the guest bathroom" and it's off-limits unless you have guests or there's an emergency (kind of like the rooms you suggested they just close off).
I'm a great fan of cleaning when it needs to be done. If a messy day of guests and cooking means the kitchen floor needs a sweep 2 days after it was just done, so be it. If we've been gone on vacation for a week, I don't sweep the floor just because it's been 7-10 days since last time. Maybe our house would fail a DI inspection, but it's certainly safe, liveable, and not embarrassing.
I think that having less space to clean, less stuff to maintain, and fewer clothes makes a massive difference.
When I was last with my sister, we went into her room -- that she and her husband shared -- and their closet and two large dressers were jammed with clothes (clean), and there wre clothes everywhere on the floor in the bedroom, bathroom, and laundry. When we gathered up *all* of the dirty laundry and took it to the laundromat, it was 21 loads of laundry.
We talked about culling. I know that my eyes were opened when I did that for our household and had 18 loads of laundry. I was like -- no. I seem to wear the same things over and over and have a uniform. by purchasing in accordance with that uniform, I do quite well. Now, if we went to a laundromat it would be 2-3 loads -- and that's everything. It's do-able.
Children's toys are tough, but we do ok keeping it spare. And living without our favorite books for two years has not been a big problem. It's actually quite nice. the library, kindle on our computers, and borrowing from friends works well.
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your thoughts on this.
We have made so much progress! When she started talking about this I had suggested that she paint the boys' bedrooms while they were away, to personalize them; the rooms had white walls that were really marked up. I think that was a big motivator for her. She would not have been able to do this by herself due to her physical limitations, but it did motivate her to get the cleanup going. With the help of 2 teens for 1-2 hours/day, and another friend and myself, 3 rooms are now nearly completed, and we're almost to the point of arranging the furniture without the clutter. The ground floor room that has been painted is motivating her to get the other rooms picked up so that they can be painted this fall - it looks fabulous.
Why hasn't anyone come up with a hoarders anonymous yet?
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