The closer we get to paying off the mortgage, the more frustrating it seems.

[pcooley]

We've got it down to three more years -- 36 more payments. I'm paying an extra $684.40 in principle a month to make our house payment an even $1500. The mortgage is our last debt. (Without the extra payments, we would have 77 payments left.)

But the closer we get, the more I want to tear my hair out.

Can't we just go spend a couple of weeks in San Francisco now? Maybe a trip to Italy?

Of course, after we pay off the mortgage, we need to put money away for our kids' college -- my daughter will have three years of high school to go, and my son will just be leaving middle school.

I hope that will be enough money for college, because if the financial aid people ask us to borrow money, I'm going to pass out after all this heavy lifting to get the mortgage paid off. Our kids will get free tuition if they go to the college where we work, so that's a plus, not to mention a $400,000 value when all is said and down, (though I think we have to pay taxes on that as a benefit). The college will pay half the tuition at any other college. We're keeping our fingers crossed that that particular benefit stays in place in the face of shrinking enrollment.

Still, anyone else find that it actually feels easier when your debt is still so big that it seems it will never get paid?

It doesn't make sense, but that's the way it feels.

[Wildflower]

Maybe pay if off in 6 years instead and take some nice family vacations. Your kids will be grown up and gone before you know it. Create some awesome family memories for all of you to carry with you for a lifetime. I speak from experience. :)

College for our 2 kids cost alot. We paid some, they paid some. It turned out ok and the mortgage still got paid off. Don't stress so much about money. You are obviously doing a good job of handling it. Alot of people would love to be in your shoes financially. Just to be gainfully employed is a wonderful thing these days...

[iris lily]

Well, for one thing, if I were you I know for sure where my children would go to college so I wouldn't be worrying about paying for it. Unless they are certified as needing the challenges provided by MIT or the like, the local college is perfectly fine for them.

And I'd probably do like Wildflower says, take a family vacation.

[Rosemary]

It comes down to deciding where your priorities are. We spend a fair amount on travel every year to visit family and friends and see new places. It's something we're unlikely to be able to do once DD gets to college age. Spending this time together is more valuable to me than paying off our mortgage (which is a 15-year, so more aggressive than most). We have also been putting money into saving for college since she was an infant, so that it can compound. That's a great benefit you get at your college - my DH works at a university but it has no tuition benefits for children or spouses of employees.

[herbgeek]

Are your kids going to remember that you paid off your mortgage early or are they going to remember that awesome trip to Italy you went on?

[cattledog]

Try to stay focused and pay it off. Also, try to remember why you are doing this in the first place. It's amazing how freeing your life is without anything but discretionary things to pay for. I love it. Things like college and trips are a lot easier to pay for without a mortgage. Three years isn't that long (if you think it is, just remember how quickly the last three years went :)). The kids will still be around if you want to take a trip later. In fact, I would argue that going to Europe would be a better experience for teenagers instead of children. Just think of it as a reward. Maybe that will motivate you?

[pcooley]

We had a great, three-week trip to India a couple of years ago, and the kids still remember that. All of my wife's family is coming out to New Mexico to visit us in a couple of weeks, and my daughter is going to stay with them in their hotel. It's not as if we never do anything, but we work hard at it from a budgeting standpoint, especially with my long stint as the at-home-parent and now working part-time.

The mortgage should get paid off when the children are fifteen and thirteen. I think they'll remember that.

Though I have to say, I think my parents paid off their mortgage when I was about the same age, and I didn't have a great appreciation for the event. I did feel like I grew up poor, and I was always surprised in my later teens when there was always so much money for activities I wanted to do. (Though my parents did make me declare financial independence and pay for college almost completely on my own. They gave me the $4000 they had saved for my education and sent me on my way).

Do people still have mortgage burning parties?

[flowerseverywhere]

well I think you are doing the right thing. We did not have a mortgage burning party but as I have posted here before the day our mortgage was paid off we got back in the car and DH just started to cry - he was so relieved that the huge burden had been taken off of us. We went home and sat on the porch and just felt the tension and stress rise and made plans for the rest of our lives. It was that big for us.

I think the most important thing you have given to your children is time. So many people today cannot afford to have a parent stay home or even work part time and apparently that has been one of your priorities.

As far as college goes, things have changed mightily in the past ten years. in five more they will probably change even more. I still believe that getting a college degree is the most important thing you can do, traditional ideas of going away for four years and living in a dormatory are just not in everyone's budget anymore.

The funny thing is my kids don't remember a lot of the big stuff we did, but a lot of the little stuff. Camping on a lake in the Adirondacks where they floated around on air mattresses- going to a local game farm and the hours we spent on local lakes on all kinds of canoes etc.

Do what is best for you. It is like being on a diet and someone showing up at your house with a cheesecake and saying "one small piece won't hurt". Well maybe it will and maybe you need to continue down the course you have set for yourself.

[iris lily]

I would also like to add that the OP is in a sweet spot. Being 3 years away from paying the mortgage, and having tuition (and dorm?) costs covered at a private college is pretty nice, it is HUGE!

Hey, I am hard core PRO paying off mortgages. We never had a mortgage on this house because we paid cash. I haven't had a mortgage since 1988. So I do not mean "relax! enjoy life! Don't worry about paying off your mortgage!" when I fact I think it is critically important to pay off your mortgage. Interest is The Enemy and it enslaves middle class America.

To me the key here is the college expenses. I would now tell your kids "You are going to xxx college here in town" and if they want more that's up to them. I would also take vacations with the kids now, keeping in mind that the mortgage WILL be paid off before the eldest is out of high school and her college IS covered.

win win win. Sweet!

[SteveinMN]

Are your kids going to remember that you paid off your mortgage early or are they going to remember that awesome trip to Italy you went on?
^^^^ THIS.

Take the trip. It postpones paying off the mortgage only a few months. The opportunity is fleeting and the memories will be priceless.

[flowerseverywhere]

I think it will postphone paying the mortgage off for quite a bit longer.

Round trip airfare for four to Rome will run say from $900-1500 apiece. Add to that hotel, food, admission to museums, transportation between cities etc. I remember when you went to India and afterward you posted it cost more than you imagined. You can get a pretty good idea of what the costs will be by going to a major travel site and figuring out what a basic hotel costs etc.

Is it worth $7500 to you and adding a year to the mortgage say? Your total may be thousands higher or lower of course depending on what your family does when there, what time of year etc..

Same thing with San Francisco. that trip might cost $3000 if you fly, maybe more, maybe less depending on where you stay and what you do. Is it worth it to postphone the mortgage payoff by four or six months?

I would think working up the figures then sitting down with your spouse and talking it over will help you make the decision.

[Gregg]

Maybe pay if off in 6 years instead and take some nice family vacations. Your kids will be grown up and gone before you know it. Create some awesome family memories for all of you to carry with you for a lifetime. I speak from experience. :)


+1,000,000,000,000,000,000

And I share wildflower's experience. The mortgage is only money. No matter how much you ever have it will not be enough to buy back time you don't spend with your kids now. Don't be a slave to the notion that you don't want to be a slave to a mortgage at the expense of something more valuable.

[chanterelle]

I'm with Flowerseverywhere , Iris Lily and cattledog. You have been working at this for so long now why are you trying to sabatoge yourself?? Since when do expensive vacations mean true memories and real family togetherness? Surly there are affordable trips and experiences and you can do as a family and still make your goal. Why 2 weeks in SF or Italy? What's really eating at you?

I'm sure that a paid mortgage and parents financial security are not a great deal to a 13/15 year old child, but I know that I am not the only adult poster on this board who would have been wildly happy and a great deal more solvent, if my parents had secured their financial future, even a modest one. Not all of them were able or had the foresight that you have now.

You can offer you children not only 2 loving, engaged parents, but no college debt, financial security for both of you and a vision of the future together. Could SF or Italy do anything more for them?

Be kind to yourself, you have worked so hard for your family, why doubt yourself now?

[peggy]

I'm with Iris Lily on the college issue. My kids would absolutely be going to the local college. Not only is it free (wow!) but it would be a fantastic lesson for the kids. "Look kids, here is this huge value, a college education at a great school, for free! Now look at all your friends and see which one has this? Now, let's look to see what that 40,000 - 80,000 we would have spent on college can buy us." Why would they want to go anywhere else? Really, how many opportunities like this do we get in life to really teach out kids a frugal lesson.

I would also investigate local trips and experiences to have with the kids. Camping, or long weekends to the nearest city. They might have a blast planning where to go and what to do, and you could take a mini-trip every month if you wished. Zoos, museums, parks, dinner and a movie! Lots to do locally. Geo cashing, if that's how it's spelled, sounds like a blast for all the family, and really doesn't cost much. A treasure hunt is always fun. Or fishing!

[Gregg]

I'm sure that a paid mortgage and parents financial security are not a great deal to a 13/15 year old child, but I know that I am not the only adult poster on this board who would have been wildly happy and a great deal more solvent, if my parents had secured their financial future, even a modest one. Not all of them were able or had the foresight that you have now.

Backing off your plan to pay off your mortgage faster and diverting the money to something that would be more positive for you is a simple matter of prioritizing, it is not sabotaging yourself. Blowing it all on something that has no meaning to you would be.


Parental insight is an interesting thing. For example, there was absolutely no way we were going to divert money from our retirement funds to the kids education. It's a lot harder to find money when you retire than it is when you're in college so we would not have done it even if it meant that they had to borrow every penny for their education. We were lucky that we've been able to pay for the 2 that are now done and plan to pay for the last one, but it is not a top priority if our situation were to change. If I've done my job correctly, and I think I have, my kids have the tools to build their own future without relying on any kind of "security" from me. Whether its easier or harder than it was for me is irrelevent. I feel a deep desire to help them along if I can, but feel absolutely no obligatioin to do so. There's a big difference.

Chanterelle is right about the expensive vacations. If you like that kind of thing, then great, take one. But its probably not the kind of thing most kids put on top of their list. Time is what is valuable. If you can spend 2 weeks in Italy or take 6 weeks off and spend it in Florida for the same money (with skipped income factored in) the kids might not vote for the Italy trip. Or you can take a staycation and explore all the fun things in your area that most of us tend to skip over. The time with the kids is what you won't get back. It usually doesn't matter much where you take them, only that you do.

[try2bfrugal]

Expensive vacations were one of the things we had to cut back on in order to not have to work as much. If I had to do things over again I would have taken more driving vacations and less flying vacation over the years and used the money instead towards the mortgage or putting it towards FI. I think over the years we have had just as much if not more fun on camping trips and local driving vacations. We have friends that take an exotic vacation each year with their teenagers and the kids just spend the whole time complaining about the food and how they are missing out on whatever their friends are doing back home.

You have to do work works best for your values and budget, but I think in hindsight for years we bought into too much of the Travel channel idea of cool vacations instead of saving money with more relaxing and inexpensive vacations closer to home.

[herbgeek]

I don't think it has to be an all or nothing deal. You can continue to pre-pay SOME additional principal, even if you don't max out to the rice-and-beans-every-night level. Time spent with your kids is a worthwhile goal, you don't have to do a top of the line vacation.

I find it ironic that I'm recommending someone else spend money, because I saved voraciously in order to pay off 2 mortgages, but we always did take a vacation every year, it just wasn't lavish. Your kids still want to hang with you, in a few years, that may not be true.

The fact you have college sewed up (for the most part) makes me want to say Live a Little.

[SteveinMN]

Taking a vacation in, say, Italy, does not require renting out your own palazzo and hiring servants or two solid weeks of dining out. With some time and searching, you can identify house shares or less-expensive hotels/hostels/monasteries -- who cares if the room is tiny so long as it's clean and safe? With access either to a refrigerator or sources of ice, you could visit a local grocery or greensmarket with your family and see how the people who live there really live (our seeing Lay's potato chips in Portugal was a bit of an eye-opener). Dining at three-star restaurants is not necessary. Maybe you could rent gear and camp out (if you do that kind of thing Stateside). Lots of sights are free and, for the others, there often are discounts offered by local tourist offices.

There's something broadening about traveling someplace where the language and the street signs and prices are all expressed differently, and something humbling about holding an American passport and having to line up at the airport in the line marked "Aliens", and something really cool about seeing pictures of the Colosseum or the Grand Canal and being able to say, "I've been there!"

OF, you're the best judge of whether your kids would appreciate the experience. I do feel rather strongly that Americans at least briefly experience presence in another part of the world (without a military uniform); if nothing else, it makes us appreciate what we have and makes us think about what we don't.

[razz]

What about the kids having their own overseas vacations when they are able to pay the cost but focus on personal financial security of a paid off home but arranging good more local adventures together? Why does it have to be the high cost trip or nothing?

The world has changed and nothing is secure any more, IMO, so a secure home is a priority compared to years ago when optimism about the future and its possibilities was was greater.

Having said that, I did take our two kids on overseas trips but did them as part of modestly-priced tours where almost everything is included except some of the meals and the tips for the tour guide and bus driver and am really glad that I did. In the late 80's and early 90's, a tour would cost about $2500 per person and it would be be very interesting but busy.

[flowerseverywhere]

lots of really interesting input and opinions. Keep us posted as to what you and your wife decide to do.

[pcooley]

We're not going to spend a good deal of money on a vacation. I'm just using that as an example of how it feels frustrating at this point. It's like being able to see an open door and catch a glimpse of what's on the other side of it, but the more you're able to see through it, the slower you seem to be traveling. It doesn't help that I work in the dean's office of the college where I work, and I talk to the faculty about their sabbaticals. Most of the faculty, I've known for years, and many of them I even went to college with, (including the dean himself, who was a couple of years behind me). One person just got back from spending a year in Aix. Another real good friend of mine just spent a year in Rome, Paris and North Carolina. But to be completely honest, I enjoy being at home. There are some things I want to do with my wife after we pay off the mortgage, but to be truthful, it would be much more fun to do without the children, when they're a little older and off at college. I'd like to take a walking tour of the U.K. I also have in mind that it would be fun to walk a circuit of the Meditteranean, through Spain, France and Italy, (though I don't know if that's even a possibility). Those are big trips that will require we're free of debt, and now I can say we will be. I don't think it would be unkind to say that my children would probably complain on a walking tour, though if they developed an affinity for walking places, we would certainly take them along.

It's difficult for me to really put my finger on what it is I find frustrating. I was thinking about that this morning. Part of it is just wanting to be at a place where it feels like we're doing well enough that we can breathe easy. Having the mortgage paid off is certainly part of that. I think that I might have some deep guilt in my subconscious for not pursuing a path where I would make a lot of money. I, along with my oldest sister, were the first in our family to get a college education. From the time I can remember, my parents would say to me, "you're so smart, you can be a doctor or a lawyer." That never sounded very smart to me. That sounded extremely limiting. I wanted to be a poet, a writer, a beach bum, a buddhist, an auto mechanic, a philosopher, a mountaineer, and so on. So I went to eclectic St. John's College, which is based on the "Great Books," and I got a Masters degree in Eastern Classics. And I've done a whole lot of what I want to do. I wonder if paying off the mortgage is somehow a substitute "I made it," for becoming a doctor or a lawyer. Partly, also, I think I never wanted to worry about money in the face of my parents' push to make the obtaining of money my central goal. Now curiously, not having ever made a lot of money, I worry about it all the time. My goal in life is still the same as it was when I was a teenager. I'd like to read, write, live simply and NOT worry about money. Curiously enough, my oldest sister did become a doctor, and I suspect we're in better financial shape than she is.

[flowerseverywhere]

Well, these days becoming a doctor means several hundred thousand dollars of debt and delaying a good income until you are almost thirty, so I don't think it is the path to riches it once was. Then there is the peer pressure to live like a doctor.

I am glad you posted what you did, sometimes I find that putting things in print and reading them is really therapeutic. It sounds like you are doing really well in making decisions.

We found that as our kids approached teenage years they became less interested in hanging and vacationing with us, preferring to hang with their peers. They worked hard to attend college, and form their own lives. I think that is what is supposed to happen. I remember once my kid were teens and we went on a national parks vacation. Think of kids standing on the edge of Bryce Canyon rolling their eyes because you are embarrasing them you are so excited at the beauty and wonder. then driving around listening to their headphones not paying attention to the scenery. later on they confessed how stupid they were not to appreciate that particular trip. And they turned out to be great responsible parents, spouses and workers despite being PIA's as teens.

Part of your kid leaving and having an empty nest is to make plans for the rest of your life. So maybe some of your goals aren't meant to be with the whole family, just your and your wife. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it is pretty healthy.

[try2bfrugal]

Studies on happiness show that people tend to compare their lots in life to those around them like their neighbors and co-workers. If you worked at a different job where everyone else had less money and were not taking extended vacations you would probably be happier even though your own situation might be exactly the same as it is now.

In terms of the U.S. you are doing great compared to most people by even having jobs, having your finances under control, being in a position to pay off your mortgage and having college taken care of for your kids.

On a global scale you are probably in the very top percent in the world in terms of wealth. You can find out using this online calculator -

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

[try2bfrugal]

Think of kids standing on the edge of Bryce Canyon rolling their eyes because you are embarrasing them you are so excited at the beauty and wonder. then driving around listening to their headphones not paying attention to the scenery. later on they confessed how stupid they were not to appreciate that particular trip. And they turned out to be great responsible parents, spouses and workers despite being PIA's as teens.

There was a joke on SNL about the last budget compromise that no party got everything they wanted. Fred Armisen as Obama announced that the kids of the nation were unhappy over the resolution because it meant all the national parks were going to stay open and family vacations would go on as planned. So I think kids not wanting to go on family vacations past a certain age is pretty universal.

[pcooley]

In terms of the U.S. you are doing great compared to most people by even having jobs, having your finances under control, being in a position to pay off your mortgage and having college taken care of for your kids.

On a global scale you are probably in the very top percent in the world in terms of wealth. You can find out using this online calculator -

http://www.globalrichlist.com/


According to that website, and our income from last year's tax return, ($47,239), we are the 64,539,131 richest people in the world. But that's just based on our income. If you count the equity we have in our house, (which I generally don't because I don't think of it as wealth, I think of it as a place to keep out of the rain and cold), along with savings and retirement, (which I don't count either because I never think of retirement saving - it's just money gambled on an unpredictable market), our "net worth" is around $250,000 right now. I don't know how that compares to the net worth of the average American. I'm always under the impression that everyone around me is MUCH better off, and I'm struggling because, well, that's what I've always done. I'm beginning to wonder, though, if maybe I really can breathe a little easier. Maybe I'm doing a better job at the whole budgeting thing than I think. A quarter of a million dollars. Mmmm, that sounds pretty good. Maybe the benefits of a lifetime of relative frugality really do creep up on you.

[Wildflower]

On a global scale you are probably in the very top percent in the world in terms of wealth. You can find out using this online calculator -

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Funny, no matter what income amount you enter into this calculator - it gives the same answer.

I just wanted to say that I do agree that saving some trips/vacations for later after the kids are grown up and gone is a good thing too. This is the stage DH and I are at, empty nesters with all debt paid for including the mortgage. We have enjoyed so much traveling with just the two of us. We had lots of good trips with our kids when they were younger. They enjoyed simple vacations alot where we just camped, etc. Of course, when they hit the teenage years traveling with them was often not too much fun. Teenagers are just that way. ;) DH and I have enjoyed sharing some adventures and romance traveling all by ourselves. It seems you get to an age where you just appreciate things so much more....

We do still take a short annual vacation with our kids, their spouses and our grandkids. It is always fun and totally child oriented since the grandkids are 8 and under. These trips are a blast too cause we love spending time with our kids and grandkids having a good time. :)

[try2bfrugal]

Funny, no matter what income amount you enter into this calculator - it gives the same answer.

Only past a certain top amount. Try entering something like $1K a year and you will see it change.

[try2bfrugal]

According to that website, and our income from last year's tax return, ($47,239), we are the 64,539,131 richest people in the world. But that's just based on our income. If you count the equity we have in our house, (which I generally don't because I don't think of it as wealth, I think of it as a place to keep out of the rain and cold), along with savings and retirement, (which I don't count either because I never think of retirement saving - it's just money gambled on an unpredictable market), our "net worth" is around $250,000 right now. I don't know how that compares to the net worth of the average American. I'm always under the impression that everyone around me is MUCH better off, and I'm struggling because, well, that's what I've always done. I'm beginning to wonder, though, if maybe I really can breathe a little easier. Maybe I'm doing a better job at the whole budgeting thing than I think. A quarter of a million dollars. Mmmm, that sounds pretty good. Maybe the benefits of a lifetime of relative frugality really do creep up on you.

Median net worth in 2010 was 77K. You are doing great!
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2012-06-11/wealth-shrank-in-recession-fed-says/55528036/1

[try2bfrugal]

If you are getting a pension from your job, that is an extra plus to your net worth. If you have a pension you can figure out the cost if you were to buy one on your own by using the calculator at immediateannuities.com.

[flowerseverywhere]

according to this article, http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07/04/us-net-worth_n_1649928.html

"They show that between 2005 and 2010, American households lost 35 per cent of their average net worth. U.S. household median net worth fell to $66,740 in 2010 from $102,844 in 2005. That suggests one-third of net worth has been wiped out and it points to two things: the decline U.S. real estate values and changes in the stock market."

One thing I am sure of is that sometimes people that look like they have a lot of money are many times much poorer than someone who does not. For years comments were made by our family how we lived like paupers. Fast forward and some of our siblings are standing with one foot on a banana peel and one on the top of an economic tidal wave threatening to wash everything away.
we live in a paid for house, with decent paid for furniture and a decent automobile, of course paid for. The amount we need to exist is very little.

I suspect you are of the second camp.

[JaneV2.0]

I beat myself up on a regular basis for being a world-class underachiever, but in reality I've made a decent life for myself. The clarity of hindsight shows me where I could have done better, but there's really nothing to be gained by putting on one of bae's sustainable hair shirts and scourging oneself. Living life with joy is a skill that can be learned.

[rosarugosa]

Well said, Jane!