View Full Version : Adam Smith's bully party at chick fil a
http://www.businessinsider.com/vante-cfo-bullies-chick-fil-a-worker-then-promptly-gets-fired-for-it-2012-8
Wow! Swift retribution for Mr. Smith who only yesterday bullied a nice young woman at Chick-Fil-a, the fast food restaurant, and put up a video of himself in that starring role.
Aint' the web grand?
For those of you who don't want to wade through the videos and links, here is a recap:
1) Yesterday, in Tuscan, Mr. Adam Smith drove through a Chick-fil-a fast food window to get free water. Yesterday was the official day to boycott Chick-fil-a for those who didn't like Chick-Fil-a CEO's anti-gay marriage position
2) During his drive-through he lectured the nice young woman about how the
Chick-fil-a company is evil and said some things about her own employment there
3) He filmed himself during this exchange and today put up the video on the web
4) This afternoon his employer saw it and fired his smug, self-righteous ass
Replying to my own thread, I would just like to say that while I will not control (I can't!) the direction of this thread, I'd like to see it take off in a discussion of the ethics of boycott: when is boycott good, when not. And what is an appropriate "boycott" and when does that become something else, like personal bullying?
If we veer into the tired subject area of gay marriage, I will be bored. Don't bore me.
The topic of civility in modern-day America might also prove fruitful.
I hardly think you're going to get anyone posting here who thinks personal bullying is a good thing. Clearly, that guy is a jerk. What's to discuss?
Kara
I hardly think you're going to get anyone posting here who thinks personal bullying is a good thing. Clearly, that guy is a jerk. What's to discuss?
Kara
What if he had driven through the window to get a free water and just waved? Would that be an ok way to stick it to chick-fil-a?
I thought the outpouring of support for Chick-fil-a yesterday was cool. Our local outlet was completely overwhelmed and required the Sheriff's Dept to provide traffic control.
Of course, people who want to boycott the chain are more than free to do so, but I suspect it's a lost cause as the local franchise's will never miss the business.
The thing that does concern me regarding the controversy is the manner in which some mayors and other local officials have declared the chain unwelcome in their localities. I shudder to think that the likes of Rahm Emanuel would use the power of his office to declare a family business unwelcome in his city due to political correctness. I think the people of Chicago and Boston deserve better representation.
I also find it curious that Mr Cathy's statements were deemed so offensive to the same people who adore President Obama considering that he held the same sentiments until just recently, just in time for campaign season. It's hard to imagine a better contradiction.
What if he had driven through the window to get a free water and just waved? Would that be an ok way to stick it to chick-fil-a?
Waved how? Nicely, or in a bullying fashion? ;) I personally would never, ever go into a restaurant and just order free water and then leave. I have worked too many food service jobs to treat people that way. But, if someone was polite about it, it wouldn't be that big a deal, from the employee's perspective.
Kara
The topic of civility in modern-day America might also prove fruitful.
You're quite the optimist! Actually, I'd love that convo... We're all smart, caring folks with a range of petspectives & life experiences. Let's go for it!
PS - I got 42 seconds into that vid, and what a pompous azz.
ApatheticNoMore
8-2-12, 7:36pm
Besides honestly who thinks fast food workers are some type of people you need to take it out on, because they sure are priviledged, and sure have lots of choices in employment (sarcasm). I mean if you are working fast food you are either a student earning a few extra bucks, or an adult with no job prospects other than that. You are pretty near bottom of the economic totem pole. Where do they find these would be self-styled social-liberals with no concept of economic reality?
There was a protest near here the other day at Chik-Fil-a. I was mildly interested when I passed it because I'm interested in the treatment of protest (given what happened in Anaheim and so on). But even I really don't think a kulture war protest is likely to garner much crack down (just don't protest the police, the police state, or the economic system). I never even heard of Chik-Fil-a before this controversy. I really wasn't even aware such a business existed. Does anyone who would boycott Chik-Fil-a ever eat there anyway?
ApatheticNoMore
8-2-12, 7:40pm
I also find it curious that Mr Cathy's statements were deemed so offensive to the same people who adore President Obama considering that he held the same sentiments until just recently, just in time for campaign season. It's hard to imagine a better contradiction.
How do you know they are the same people? If they are public figures whose politics are well known and expressed then you know. Random unknown person on the street protesting, no way of knowing, really no way of knowing them from Adam, the only thing anyone knows about them is they support gay causes.
Replying to my own thread, I would just like to say that while I will not control (I can't!) the direction of this thread, I'd like to see it take off in a discussion of the ethics of boycott: when is boycott good, when not. And what is an appropriate "boycott" and when does that become something else, like personal bullying?
If we veer into the tired subject area of gay marriage, I will be bored. Don't bore me.
It makes me wonder what is ethically different between a public boycott day and a public show of support day (anti-boycott?).
Personally I think you should make people aware of facts and then let them make informed choices.
That said, Mr. Smith (who made so sure he got in that he's a heterosexual) I think was looking more for a few seconds of fame than any positive change.
Does anyone who would boycott Chik-Fil-a ever eat there anyway?
I would not eat there - but I don't do fast food places anyway so it's pretty irrelevant. Kind of like I wouldn't shop at Walmart, but since the closest one to me is further away than I would ever go anyway, that's also irrelevant.
gimmethesimplelife
8-2-12, 8:30pm
I thought the outpouring of support for Chick-fil-a yesterday was cool. Our local outlet was completely overwhelmed and required the Sheriff's Dept to provide traffic control.
Of course, people who want to boycott the chain are more than free to do so, but I suspect it's a lost cause as the local franchise's will never miss the business.
The thing that does concern me regarding the controversy is the manner in which some mayors and other local officials have declared the chain unwelcome in their localities. I shudder to think that the likes of Rahm Emanuel would use the power of his office to declare a family business unwelcome in his city due to political correctness. I think the people of Chicago and Boston deserve better representation.
I also find it curious that Mr Cathy's statements were deemed so offensive to the same people who adore President Obama considering that he held the same sentiments until just recently, just in time for campaign season. It's hard to imagine a better contradiction.You know, Alan, as a gay man myself, I have not especially cared for the timing of Obama's support of gay marriage - the more cynical part of me agrees with you, just in time for election season.....Maybe this guy Iris Lilly refers to was a jerk, and let's give her credit and say he was - my point is that I don't understand to this day why my sexual preference, something that is so natural to me like breathing is, should be an issue for so many, including the CEO of Chick Fil A? Seriously. Someone illuminate me, I just don't get it......Rob
You know, Alan, as a gay man myself, I have not especially cared for the timing of Obama's support of gay marriage - the more cynical part of me agrees with you, just in time for election season....
I agree. After stalling on don't-ask-don't-tell as long as he could, then ooooozing out the policy change, then "evolving" his views on gay marriage, he is a great disappointment to my family as well. Gay, straight, and in-between.
I don't understand to this day why my sexual preference, something that is so natural to me like breathing is, should be an issue for so many, including the CEO of Chick Fil A? Seriously. Someone illuminate me, I just don't get it......Rob
I share your confusion. The whole situation is crazy-making to me.
It makes me wonder what is ethically different between a public boycott day and a public show of support day (anti-boycott?).
...
That is an interesting point, I suppose my answer is: probably no different.
Waved how? Nicely, or in a bullying fashion? ;) I personally would never, ever go into a restaurant and just order free water and then leave. I have worked too many food service jobs to treat people that way. But, if someone was polite about it, it wouldn't be that big a deal, from the employee's perspective.
Kara
Well, in his defense, it seems that Chick--fil-a had icewater in containers, ready and waiting for people to drive up and take. At least, that's what I surmised from the video. So they seem to have set themselves up for a certain amount of grab and run non-paying customers.
I didn't watch the video but what if he is an @ss? What does that have anything to do with his job performance? Last I checked, the 1st Amendment guarantees his right to be an @ss, film himself doing it and posting it on Youtube for everyone to see.
I think it was wrong of his employer to fire him.
I didn't watch the video but what if he is an @ss? What does that have anything to do with his job performance? Last I checked, the 1st Amendment guarantees his right to be an @ss, film himself doing it and posting it on Youtube for everyone to see.
I think it was wrong of his employer to fire him.
The 1st amendment doesn't guarantee employment. Do you think that anyone working in any position can do anything in their personal life with no retribution by an employer? The employer has to look the other way for any behavior?
I think his employers are within their rights to fire him for anything at all they don't like that may cause them business issues, or simply because they don't like the color of his tie.
I know I would have terminated any of my employees who engaged in that sort of nasty bullying of powerless people, it is reflective on character, and who wants someone like that around the office?
The 1st amendment doesn't guarantee employment. Do you think that anyone working in any position can do anything in their personal life with no retribution by an employer? The employer has to look the other way for any behavior?
I think it depends on whether he 1) was bringing embarrassment to his company either by making it clear that he worked there while being an ass (such as wearing a logo shirt), or by claiming to represent the company, or 2) is well enough known that people would say "did you hear what so and so from X company did?". The third possibility where I'd agree with terminating him is his actual situation, where he's an officer of the company. Someone at that responsibility level in an organization needs to behave in a manner commensurate with his level in the company. At least in my opinion. If he was just some joe schmoe employee I would think it's not really any of the company's business what he does on his free time as long as it's legal. There are still states where one can be fired simply for being gay. I tend to be very cautious about the idea that people can be fired for what they do on their free time.
All that said, I would agree that he seems to be an ass. I disagree with Mr. Cathy, but taking it out on an employee at a franchise of Mr. Cathy's organization isn't doing anything to help change the situation.
I never even heard of Chik-Fil-a before this controversy. I really wasn't even aware such a business existed. Does anyone who would boycott Chik-Fil-a ever eat there anyway?
As a gay man who has a number of friends who think there's such a thing as 'good' fast food (SO was actually excited when McDonalds here was offering McRib sandwiches for a limited time last year, sigh...), I can say that yes, I know plenty of people who LOVE chik-fil-a who are boycotting it. Apparently among fast-food lovers chick-fil-a is considered to be quite tasty.
His employer should be judging his work performance and character based on what they see at work.
They do have a right to fire him for whatever reason they want. I'm not claiming that. I just don't think it's right for them to fire him for anything beyond his work performance.
I don't think it's right for an employer to judge someone's character based on one act. What if this guy is a perfectly nice person and good worker at every other time (every day) his employer sees him and the only time he's seen him be an @ss is on this Youtube video? Why should the employer make a judgement on this man's character based on this one negative act rather than the cumulative history of all the positive acts the employer has actually witnessed.
But actually, I don't think that's even relevant. I think people should be allowed to continue at their jobs or be fired based on their work performance not on what they're doing in every other minute of their lives.
Jeeze! Talk about giving your blood, sweat and tears to the job! That's nothing. This would be your whole life.
Also, for what it's worth, I believe it's the law in AZ that food establishments must offer free water to anyone who comes in and asks for it.
Slightly off-topic: I see plenty of people go out to fast food and much nicer restaurants, and they always order only water to drink. Personally, I think that's taking advantage of a business, so I always order something like iced tea, or lemonade, or a beer, etc. It's been touted here and at plenty of other frugal-type sites that if you and all of your dining companions just order water that that is a smart thing to do. Well, yes, it's cheaper, but it's a restaurant not a public park bench.
Drinks are profitable and if you want to see them stay in business, order something to drink besides water.
Finally, agree with others that it's never right to harass a service worker for something their CEO/Bd of Directors said or did. At the same time, it's everyone's right to decline to patronize establishments that are actively participating in discrimination, directly or indirectly.
His employer should be judging his work performance and character based on what they see at work.
They do have a right to fire him for whatever reason they want. I'm not claiming that. I just don't think it's right for them to fire him for anything beyond his work performance.
I don't think it's right for an employer to judge someone's character based on one act. What if this guy is a perfectly nice person and good worker at every other time (every day) his employer sees him and the only time he's seen him be an @ss is on this Youtube video? Why should the employer make a judgement on this man's character based on this one negative act rather than the cumulative history of all the positive acts the employer has actually witnessed.
But actually, I don't think that's even relevant. I think people should be allowed to continue at their jobs or be fired based on their work performance not on what they're doing in every other minute of their lives.
Jeeze! Talk about giving your blood, sweat and tears to the job! That's nothing. This would be your whole life.
Would it make you happy to know that he's a whig, a big whig, the CFO actually, at that company?
...
Slightly off-topic: I see plenty of people go out to fast food and much nicer restaurants, and they always order only water to drink. Personally, I think that's taking advantage of a business...
That has never occurred to me and I am a big water drinker. I either order wine or water, there's nothing in-between. I don't like tea and soft drinks, usually. I'm quite certain that a restauranteur wouldn't want me to order that drek if I don't like it.
But since I do order my fair share of glasses of wine at nice restaurants ;) I'm doing my part.
Today I did a rarity, went out for lunch. I go out to lunch probably 3 times annually. I went to a tea room and ordered--water! But it wasn't at the lunch rush, it was at 2 pm, so I don't think they minded me doing that.
ApatheticNoMore
8-3-12, 12:57am
I always order water also. It's what I drink at home, it's what I prefer. The cost doesn't even enter my mind because it's what I want.
I don't think it's right for an employer to judge someone's character based on one act. What if this guy is a perfectly nice person and good worker at every other time (every day) his employer sees him and the only time he's seen him be an @ss is on this Youtube video?
I think him being at such a high level in the company does change things. Look if you were arguing it wasn't fair a data entry person got fired for a Facebook post or a youtube video or something, I'd agree. But when you are management in corporate America, and even mores so *SENIOR* management, I think there is a *cultural* expectation that at that point your public behavior represents the company. It's just part of corporate culture. And frankly I'm very careful what gets on there online under my real name (under an alias I'm more free) and I'm just an employee, but it's absolutely necessary to consider what future employers might see out there etc..
For a senior management person to be so dense is just clueless .... (on so many levels of course - clueless about those in lower income brackets like those who work fast food and clueless about even playing the part of the senior executive in his income bracket, just clueless all around).
There are no Chic-Fil-A's around this part of the country and I've never actually had their food. I hear its pretty good. Aside from that I think its great that...
A business has the fortitude to stand up for their values. Even if they don't reflect my values I can appreciate people who firmly believe they are doing the right thing and then stand up for that.
People come out to support that business.
People come out to protest that business.
The dialog surrounding gay marriage is still open.
It's pretty amazing to have all that centered around a chicken sandwich. America, what a country!
Ive never been to a Chick-Fil-A. But I think I'll swing by today and try one of there sandwich's out. My understanding is that all this is over a statement made in a interview simply stating an owners belief's. That was the same as Obama's a few months ago. There was no uproar then, why now.
I wonder if this will end up actually helping their business. They sure got a lot of free publicity.
His employer should be judging his work performance and character based on what they see at work.
They do have a right to fire him for whatever reason they want. I'm not claiming that. I just don't think it's right for them to fire him for anything beyond his work performance.
I don't think it's right for an employer to judge someones character based on one act. What if this guy is a perfectly nice person and good worker at every other time (every day) his employer sees him and the only time he's seen him be an @ss is on this Youtube video? Why should the employer make a judgement on this man's character based on this one negative act rather than the cumulative history of all the positive acts the employer has actually witnessed.
But actually, I don't think that's even relevant. I think people should be allowed to continue at their jobs or be fired based on their work performance not on what they're doing in every other minute of their lives.
Jeeze! Talk about giving your blood, sweat and tears to the job! That's nothing. This would be your whole life.
I have found that someone who would do something like this isn't just all of a sudden doing this. I mean, anyone who would be a jerk to some poor kid in a fast food restaurant, film it and post it is probably a jerk to everyone. It is an indication of his personality I'm sure, and I'm guessing it isn't an isolated incident. We don't live in bubbles, and someone that high up IS a representative of the company, on and off the job. And kind of a scummy human too!
*sadly, some on this thread wasted no time in trying to 'connect' this to Obama, oddly enough, and democrats. Ideologues do get tiresome in their constant swing around into the party line no matter what the discussion is about. It is election time, isn't it ((sigh))
The question isn't this guys freedom of speech. He is free, obviously, to say whatever he wants, and believe whatever he wants. The question is discrimination. Digging further into the story we find that the Ill. Atty. general has been in negotiation with this company for quite a while. Ill has on it's books anti-discrimination laws, and apparently this owner has been hedging on his chains policy on hiring or even serving gays. This is why this has gone public. Knee jerk reactions, on both sides, has missed the point entirely. Employment laws are employment laws, and no one, no matter how 'righteous or religious' they are can not simply ignore them. He is free to discriminate against gays and Ill. is free to deny him business if he chooses to do so. It's simply a matter of law. And everyone is free to either eat thee of not, based on whatever criteria they choose. One persons choice is not more 'righteous or holy or touchy feelie' than anyone elses, and everyone is expressing their free speech.
morning girl
8-3-12, 11:17am
I live in Oregon and there are no Chick-Fil-a locations in the state. There was one in a mall years ago but it closed. I can't eat their food because I am gluten intolerant and there is very little on their menu to choose that is gluten free. That said I probably wouldn't eat there because I try to support businesses that support tolerance.
*sadly, some on this thread wasted no time in trying to 'connect' this to Obama, oddly enough, and democrats. Ideologues do get tiresome in their constant swing around into the party line no matter what the discussion is about. It is election time, isn't it ((sigh))
Pot and Kettle Peg. You crack me up! :laff:
Digging further into the story we find that the Ill. Atty. general has been in negotiation with this company for quite a while. Ill has on it's books anti-discrimination laws, and apparently this owner has been hedging on his chains policy on hiring or even serving gays. This is why this has gone public. Knee jerk reactions, on both sides, has missed the point entirely. Employment laws are employment laws, and no one, no matter how 'righteous or religious' they are can not simply ignore them.
Gosh, I've never heard about that. I did hear about an attempt by a Chicago newspaper to link the chain's dress code to anti-gay discrimination (apparently they won't allow male employees to wear earrings on the job), but I've never seen or heard anything about actual discrimination in hiring or serving of customers. With 1500 or so stores in 40 states, you'd think there'd be a documented case of it by now. Maybe you could give us details?
The only practical discrimination I've seen so far is from those cities and Mayors who have expressed their desire to forbid the chain from operating in their jurisdictions after finding them guilty of thought crimes.
edited to add:
We've been fans of the food and their advertising signs for a long time. This is my oldest grandson at Halloween, 2003.
855
I'm just glad that leadership in this country is now in the hands of fast food execs..
DUBLIN, OH—Responding to Chick-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy's recent controversial admission of the company's donations to antigay groups, a statement from competing fast food chain Wendy’s let consumers know Monday that it has long supported same-sex couples and only harbors strong objections to interracial marriage. "It's important that Wendy’s customers know our restaurant proudly stands by the right of all Americans to marry whomever they choose, so long as it isn't someone of a different race,” said spokeswoman Jenna Knox, adding that while Wendy’s has always backed pro-gay legislation, it found miscegenation "an abominable offense to God’s will." "Just like our founder Dave Thomas, we dream of living in an America where two loving people of the same sex can freely wed, provided of course that both people are also of the same race, and that no black, Asian, Latin American, or other non-European heritage is allowed to de-purify the white racial bloodline." Following the Wendy’s statement, executives from Jack in the Box confirmed that they too had always supported gay rights and the Holocaust never happened. http://tinyurl.com/ctuzx8g
ApatheticNoMore
8-3-12, 12:01pm
sadly, some on this thread wasted no time in trying to 'connect' this to Obama, oddly enough, and democrats. Ideologues do get tiresome in their constant swing around into the party line no matter what the discussion is about. It is election time, isn't it ((sigh))
True that. How does anyone know that those whose issue is gay rights weren't upset with Obama when this was his position? I mean really unless that is a cause you have spend much time following, a pet cause of yours, you don't know. It's just random stereotyping. There is opposition to Obama on the left you know (if they are even left, one doesn't even know that, just that they favor gay rights). Whether they would vote for Obama or not even if he continued to take the position, I don't know and I don't care. I don't care that much if people do "lesser of two evils" voting. I mostly only care that people know with full awareness what they vote for and they stop being so supportive of nonsense *outside* the voting booth.
Would it make you happy to know that he's a whig, a big whig, the CFO actually, at that company?
That has been my take, too. As one of the top officers, his public self reflects on the company. Especially as the financial officer! I am a dyed-in-the-wool progressive, and what this dude did was effed up.
First off, he berated a low-wage hourly worker who had NO choice about dealing with him. She acquitted herself beautifully, bless her. The blatant classicism was nauseating. Harassing a line worker gives him meaning? Go collect unemployment, you twit. (Oh, wait, you were fired for cause. Never mind!)
Secondly, his homophobic "there's no gay in me" statement. WTF does that even MEAN?!?
Lastly, videoing & posting the entire sordid incident... Can we say narcissist? He sounded & acted like a 14 year old. And this guy is a college lecturer & was a CFO? Oy.
All in all, this boy is not an ally to the Marriage Equality movement!
Sidestepping the pointless Obama-bashing:
1) I think boycotts and anti-boycotts (the "show of support" day) are a perfectly fine way to express one's support or lack thereof of an organization, at least in a democracy.
2) While I don't happen to agree on Chick-Fil-A's "policy" on gay marriage, I am not in charge of the political leanings of every corporation in this country. They are all free to do as they wish within the law. Changing the law is another matter outside the scope of the O.P.'s topic.
3) Chick-Fil-A should have a policy against handing out free water. Problem solved. If he wants to pay for the privilege of harassment, well, perhaps this event will help the collected store managers develop some kind of protection policy for line workers, allowing them to simply walk away.
4) Adam Smith appears, by all evidence, to be a world-class jackhole, and his cowardly, abusive actions make me want to take out the industrial-strength can of whuppass and put THAT on YouTube. His employer is free to do what they feel is best for the organization, including firing him, if a) they feel he has done some form of damage to the company, and b) local/federal laws and their own corporate policy manual allows that firing. I'm not inclined to waste any time defending this guy.
Seems like another non-issue being puffed up by a rabid media and an unabashed media whore, wasting a lot of peoples' time and inciting even more polarization.
As if we needed it.
Sidestepping the pointless Obama-bashing:
That shouldn't be difficult since there hasn't been any. Unless, of course, you believe that pointing out the similarities between Mr Cathy's views and the longstanding views of our President is somehow inappropriate.
I agree with you on all other points made.
That shouldn't be difficult since there hasn't been any. Unless, of course, you believe that pointing out the similarities between Mr Cathy's views and the longstanding views of our President is somehow inappropriate.
Not only a long, desperate stretch (unless you know something about Obama's personal views on the bible's interpretation of homosexuality that I don't) but more important, doesn't seem germane to the conversation I.L. appears to have wanted to have: "What about all this boycott business, and what's up with this Smith jerk anyway?" is how I personally interpreted her post, fwiw.
There are no Chic-Fil-A's around this part of the country and I've never actually had their food. I hear its pretty good. Aside from that I think its great that...
A business has the fortitude to stand up for their values. Even if they don't reflect my values I can appreciate people who firmly believe they are doing the right thing and then stand up for that..
I'm sure the owners of the local Woolworths down South in the '60s were only following their "values" too.
According to recent reports, large numbers of voters in the Deep South still think interracial marriage should be illegal*. New-fangled ideas percolate slowly there, it would appear.
*http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/other-notes-from-alabama-and-mississippi.html
ApatheticNoMore
8-3-12, 10:22pm
I sometimes think of starting a quote:
"Half of Western culture was created by the gays .... and the other half by the Jews!"
:)
Um, *OF COURSE* this overgeneralizes and isn't strictly mathematically true (what about women and blacks and straight white christians/catholics). Yea, yea, it's meant to be a bon mot, a witticism, ok. Really though they generally have made a disproportionate contribution and that's the kernal of truth in it (and I'm not even sure what we are going to make of the ancient Greeks ... :)).
flowerseverywhere
8-3-12, 10:37pm
I have a hard time understanding how any holy book can be interpreted to generated hate towards anyone. Why do people care so much? Are they afraid? Are they ignorant? Hateful? Have homosexual feeling? I don't understand.
Jesus never said a word about same-sex relationships--at least nothing recorded in the New Testament*--but you wouldn't know that by listening to Cathy and his ilk.
*Though there's some speculation that he tacitly approved of a gay relationship between a centurion and his slave.
ETA: Amazon's Jeff Bezos and his wife just kicked in 2.5 million for Washington United for Marriage--a political fund-raising group dedicated to preserving the same-sex marriage law recently approved by our legislature. Let the boycotts begin! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/mother_goose/MG_11.gif
According to recent reports, large numbers of voters in the Deep South still think interracial marriage should be illegal*. New-fangled ideas percolate slowly there, it would appear.
*http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2012/03/other-notes-from-alabama-and-mississippi.html
I heard a story recently a black couple attending a largely white church were denied permission to get married there. According to the church "some" of the members did not want a "black" wedding taking place there.
I have a hard time understanding how any holy book can be interpreted to generated hate towards anyone. Why do people care so much? Are they afraid? Are they ignorant? Hateful? Have homosexual feeling? I don't understand.
Leviticus is a very interesting book in the Bible, it condemns homosexuality and is often quoted from for this reason.
Also says point blank adulterers should be put to death (and has an endless other number of don'ts), but for some reason people don't mention this part as much.
Meaning to me it's not so much the book as the interpreters generating the hate.
I shudder to think that the likes of Rahm Emanuel would use the power of his office to declare a family business unwelcome in his city due to political correctness. I think the people of Chicago and Boston deserve better representation.
Whatever your position on the issue, I'd hardly call a business that only supports some types of families a "family business."
Or the grievous sin of wearing clothing made of two different fibers!
Leviticus is a laugh riot. If we had the Levitican version of Shariya law, we'd all have been stoned to death years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs
(...apparently they won't allow male employees to wear earrings on the job), but I've never seen or heard anything about actual discrimination in hiring or serving of customers. With 1500 or so stores in 40 states, you'd think there'd be a documented case of it by now. Maybe you could give us details?
855
Just to clarify a social norm "Right is wrong" is what DH learned when he got his ear pierced 25 years ago. So only right earred earring wearing men should be turned down for employment at Chick-fil-a. :D But I doubt that is happening.
DH is a conservative midwestern farm boy and he was just about the last person anyone would think to get a piercing back decades ago. But in his family, it's traditional. This is what his grandfather wore. I do not know if there is a preferred ear for the Swiss earring which is a symbol of dairymen. The round thing is a scoop for the milk can.
http://tinyurl.com/d2ocuq6
Whatever your position on the issue, I'd hardly call a business that only supports some types of families a "family business."
I don't know what you mean by "a business that only supports some types of families". Is a private business required to support all families? If my family has a business, am I required to support you?
Just to clarify a social norm "Right is wrong" is what DH learned when he got his ear pierced 25 years ago. So only right earred earring wearing men should be turned down for employment at Chick-fil-a. :D But I doubt that is happening.
DH is a conservative midwestern farm boy and he was just about the last person anyone would think to get a piercing back decades ago. But in his family, it's traditional. This is what his grandfather wore. I do not know if there is a preferred ear for the Swiss earring which is a symbol of dairymen. The round thing is a scoop for the milk can.
http://tinyurl.com/d2ocuq6
I pierced my left ear shortly after getting out of the Air Force, back in the 70's. Shortly after that I started a new career where earrings in men were frowned upon, so I let it grow over. I made my statement while I could, but I've never missed it.
I don't know what you mean by "a business that only supports some types of families". Is a private business required to support all families? If my family has a business, am I required to support you?
I would guess that ej took your comment about Rahm Emmanuel declaring family businesses unwelcome to mean "family friendly businesses". Since Chik Fil A's are corporately owned that's the most logical conclusion I could come up with.
Since Chik Fil A's are corporately owned
Most are run by franchisees.
You can license the right to manage one and keep a share of the profits, but apparently ownership remains with the corporation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chik_fil_a
Business model
Chick-fil-A uses a model significantly different from other restaurant franchises, notably in retaining ownership of each restaurant.
You can license the right to manage one and keep a share of the profits, but apparently ownership remains with the corporation.
Maybe, but I would suggest what matters for this discussion is who makes decisions for how the business is run, not who owns the roof. See for example: http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Company/Careers-Team-Opportunities
Whatever your position on the issue, I'd hardly call a business that only supports some types of families a "family business."
I couldn't agree more.
Maybe, but I would suggest what matters for this discussion is who makes decisions for how the business is run, not who owns the roof. See for example: http://www.chick-fil-a.com/Company/Careers-Team-Opportunities
Yes, but if you don't own the franchise I'd say it's more like the difference between renting a house and buying it. In one you don't have equity and at the end you just walk away. In the other you put in a bigger up front investment and build up equity and potentially long-term wealth.
flowerseverywhere
8-6-12, 12:47pm
I don't know what you mean by "a business that only supports some types of families". Is a private business required to support all families? If my family has a business, am I required to support you?
Even if you don't support everyone and their particular beliefs it seems that being compassionate or at least tolerent (as long as they do not have a hate agenda themselves) is far better in the long run than being hateful. Through history the color of your skin, your religious beliefs, politial beliefs, and sexual tendencies have led to so much hate and violence.
In this instant digital age perhaps comments that were once meant only for friends or acquaintances get immediately broadcast everywhere. The hate crimes that seem to be on the increase around the world certainly don't need any help or encouragement from anyone.
In this instant digital age perhaps comments that were once meant only for friends or acquaintances get immediately broadcast everywhere. The hate crimes that seem to be on the increase around the world certainly don't need any help or encouragement from anyone.
I agree. I fear for the Cathy family.
I wouldn't worry, Alan. I can't recall the last time a rich white guy was targeted by one of us loony lefties. (Unless you count Bill Gates and a cream pie.) At any rate, it doesn't happen often.
I wouldn't worry, Alan. I can't recall the last time a rich white guy was targeted by one of us loony lefties. (Unless you count Bill Gates and a cream pie.) At any rate, it doesn't happen often.
Heck, that happens even in my community.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Man-accused-of-cutting-power-line-pleads-not-1271909.php
Apparently he was overheard in a bar earlier in the day talking to a friend about the need to dispose of all of us "rich white despoilers". To save Gaia. He had quite a bit of support in the local lefty community, one member of which then went on to write a nice little book advocated the widespread assassination of all of us inconvenient rich white males.
I wouldn't worry, Alan. I can't recall the last time a rich white guy was targeted by one of us loony lefties. (Unless you count Bill Gates and a cream pie.) At any rate, it doesn't happen often.
I spent nearly 30 years providing corporate security/executive protection services for a rich white guy and the threats were constant from always loony, consistently lefties. You just don't hear about it much because rich white guys keep those matters close to their rich white guy vests.
ApatheticNoMore
8-6-12, 3:18pm
I feel bad for all the gay people who have to see how excited people are to turn out to oppose them so that we can fight americas brain-dead moronic kulture war via of all things fast food (ie toxic sludge of food like substances on a platter).
I feel bad for all the gay people who have to see how excited people are to turn out to oppose them so that we can fight americas brain-dead moronic kulture war over fast food (ie toxic sludge of food like substances on a platter).
Isn't that the truth!
I mean, with all the serious problems we could be talking about, somehow the business practices of a fast-food chicken shack floated to the top of the mire?
Bread and circuses...
I spent nearly 30 years providing corporate security/executive protection services for a rich white guy and the threats were constant from always loony, consistently lefties. You just don't hear about it much because rich white guys keep those matters close to their rich white guy vests.
From what I can gather, anyone willing to go public (including such provocateurs as cookbook authors) get threats and hate mail, but few are assassinated, thank goodness.
I have to admit I'm amused by Cathy's wrapping himself in Leviticus and then serving breakfast items featuring pork.
And, in related news, Portland restaurant Hamburger Mary's is currently offering a "hate-free chicken sandwich" and donating proceeds to the Pride Foundation--in case anyone is in the neighborhood.
http://www.justout.com/highlights/news-highlights/hate-free-chicken-sandwich/
And, in related news, Portland restaurant Hamburger Mary's is currently offering a "hate-free chicken sandwich" and donating proceeds to the Pride Foundation--in case anyone is in the neighborhood.
Not only that, but Hamburger Mary's sources relatively-humanely-raised meat, something I suspect is less hateful in The Supreme Being's eyes than Chik-Fil-A's sources. Eat there.
flowerseverywhere
8-6-12, 4:21pm
I agree. I fear for the Cathy family.
and gays, many whom are only trying to provide for their families, allow the ones they love to have the benefits that same sex marraiges do and live good productive lives for the good of society.
It was interesting living in a same sex marraige state. It was barely a blip after the initial flurry on anyone's radar, except if you happen to be gay and now have the benefits of marraige added to your union.
flowerseverywhere
8-6-12, 4:23pm
I feel bad for all the gay people who have to see how excited people are to turn out to oppose them so that we can fight americas brain-dead moronic kulture war via of all things fast food (ie toxic sludge of food like substances on a platter).
yes it is sad and insulting. I worked for years with a nurse who spoke about her Fiance and it wasn't until I saw the wedding pics I realized it was a same sex marraige. She was a good person and good nurse before then and continued to be so. her sexual preferences meant nothing to what she was inside.
I feel bad for all the gay people who have to see how excited people are to turn out to oppose them so that we can fight americas brain-dead moronic kulture war via of all things fast food (ie toxic sludge of food like substances on a platter).
I remember the "freedom fries" episode - I was surprised just how many people out there that were primed and ready to jump all over the French.
flowerseverywhere
8-6-12, 6:04pm
Not only that, but Hamburger Mary's sources relatively-humanely-raised meat, something I suspect is less hateful in The Supreme Being's eyes than Chik-Fil-A's sources. Eat there.
the more I thought about this the funnier (or sadder) I thought it was. You have to make such a supreme effort nowdays to live a thoughful, kind, humane life, not buy items made with slave labor, eat humanely raised food and not support companies that pollute the streams and grounds of the world. If there is a god I can imagine he is rolling his eyes right now.
I remember the "freedom fries" episode - I was surprised just how many people out there that were primed and ready to jump all over the French.
As I'm in the middle of a book about the French, I have to say, I had forgotten how much fun they are to hate on. So superior. So distaining of the rest of us. Like the most popular beautiful (and bitchy) girl in the class, I want to be her and I hate her until I am her. :confused: :D
I met a guy once who was a real francophile. He was impressed with how "French" I was--probably because I was totally disinterested and dismissive. I can do ennui with the best of them. --even though I'm about as French as Alsatia. But enough about me... http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/buba.gif
I can do ennui with the best of them. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/personal/buba.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q34z5dCmC4M
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