Do you feel pressured by peers and the media to live a certain way?

[puglogic]

I'm turning this article over and over in my head today:
http://www.propellermag.com/Summer2012/RechnerSummer12.html

The writer admits that she feels a certain amount of guilt and pressure around food -- specifically eating local, sustainable, simple, organic, whatever. It's a conversation we've had here periodically - who choose what options, and why, etc.

But I've never seen such vitriol attached to it. It's as though the media and people who make certain eating choices are accused of personally making this woman feel guilty about her own (very decent) choices. I see where she might think that, but I guess I don't share that experience. I don't feel a "moral imperative" as she puts it. I see lots of different choices, and stand by my own.

Do you? Do other people, or the media, make you feel like you "ought to" be doing this or that, foodwise? Or are you able to just shrug and say, "Hey, I yam what I yam?" Curious if I'm being oversensitive to the anger expressed here.

[Tradd]

Heck, I do what I want. And revel in my eccentricity!:)

[Wildflower]

I do what I want as well, but it does seem like how/what you eat, where your food comes from (organic or not), how much effort you put into growing/raising your own food, etc. is the new "keep up with the Jones" these days...

I detect alot of smugness among some folks, albeit mostly on message boards and blogs, than I do in my real life community. Most of us here in the midwest are just trying to pay our bills and afford to go to the grocery store. Yes, I do have a garden, but always have, as my parents and grandparents before me. It's not some new trendy thing in my life...

I also find it amusing the homesteading boards that promote the thought that you're saving so much money by growing and/or raising your own food. Goodness, raising animals to butcher requires alot of money to feed, house, and care for medically if the need arises. Not to mention I couldn't kill/butcher animals that I know personally. :( My veggie garden this summer cost me a horrendous amount of money to keep watered in this drought.... Somebody needs to inject some reality into this whole urban homesteading trend.

Hope I've made some sense here. I feel like I'm just rambling. :)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I do what I want as well, but it does seem like how/what you eat, where your food comes from (organic or not), how much effort you put into growing/raising your own food, etc. is the new "keep up with the Jones" these days...

I don't really see it.


I detect alot of smugness among some folks, albeit mostly on message boards and blogs, than I do in my real life community. Most of us here in the midwest are just trying to pay our bills and afford to go to the grocery store.

I know plenty of people aware of food issues (in depth), people who could talk food politics, people who try to eat healthier, and I have never experienced what the author is talking about. People nosey about what you eat on your own time and that expect perfection. Nope. Must be a Portland thing? Though I will say people on diets are always annoying :) I don't think it's super judgemental here and to the extent I feel pressure toward a social norm it's the usual: look hot, look young, look thin, be beautiful. Yea of coures at any given time there seem to be more people on some nutty diet to lose weight than there are trying to avoid GMOs or something (I'm more the later and I'm not alone but ..).


I also find it amusing the homesteading boards that promote the thought that you're saving so much money by growing and/or raising your own food. Goodness, raising animals to butcher requires alot of money to feed, house, and care for medically if the need arises. Not to mention I couldn't kill/butcher animals that I know personally. :( My veggie garden this summer cost me a horrendous amount of money to keep watered in this drought.... Somebody needs to inject some reality into this whole urban homesteading trend.

I doubt it saves money. I think if you get deep into the urban homesteding it's not to save money. It's ... possible security, for SHTF, but also a possible source of additional income (in case you lose your job etc.), it's resilience not efficiency (multiple backup plans). The most OBVIOUS, totally obvious, never mentioned class aspect of it to me is the cost of land! So price shop at Whole Foods here. Hmm, kinda pricey, lots of stuff seems overpriced .... obviously not everyone can afford it (though I do love the place). Ok obviously a little exclusive. Then ... price land here (so you can grow your own organic food). Wow Whole Foods looks super cheap in comparison (real estate not food is where Whole Paychecks REALLY go).

I'm not trying to be an artiste (though I've enjoyed reading reviews on here of the Artists Way :), exploring artistic potential that's cool). And boy what an incredibly narrow definition of art the woman who wrote the food article has, it's just to challenge the existing society. I mean that's certainly quite valid, but that's not the only purpose of art. If I was trying to be an artiste what would tire me out more? 8 hour days, 2 hour commutes, occassional weekends working, continual learning to be competetive in the job market, or making my own food? Gee, I wonder. Of course I'm not butchering my own meat :) Food and nutrition to me are fascination, interest (yea it's something to geek out on! learn about the history of food ...), physical well being (I mean feeling well now, not a guarantee of never getting sick), pleasure, comfort. I mean how comforting is spending all your time thinking about politics or the environment likely to be (yep the world is going to heck in a handbasket, we're all doomed ... no doubt about it). That's important. But reading recipes and about food is indeed comforting :)

[iris lily]

I won't say that I feel pressured to eat a certain way although there clearly is the group who think they have the upper moral hand in eating (organic, etc)

But now I will take a moment to provide judgmental commentary, ha ha. I just watched a documentary called Food Stamped about the state of food for the poor. This piece revealed not one thing that I didn't already know. And while the film was competent and entertaining, I have to wonder why the filmmakers made it. But anyway, the central activity in the film was having the filmmakers eat on food stamp funds for one week.

Well, immediately they shot themselves in the foot (IMO) by limiting their food buying to only "organic" products. It wasn't surprising then that they couldn't afford much. doh. The upshot of their experiment was that they didn't get enough calories although their choices had fair variety. When they skipped over the stick of butter for $.89 to take the Organic one for $1.39 I figured that they deserved to starve.

[Gregg]

Unfortunately the true local food movement is very small and quiet in our area so far. Our version of the urban homestead is in the design phase right now (house under construction, gardens come next spring). We are actually pretty reserved when talking about it. Most of our friends grew up like us with pretty significant gardens. Whether we knew it or not most of our eating was local. Now most in our peer group don't give that any thought at all. At most they might have a tomato plant in a pot on the patio and go to the farmer's market once a week for a couple things. That is the one thing that, around here, does count as trendy. They all know that I'm going to plant a garden, but have no idea that we will also have a few chickens, a couple fruit trees, berry bushes, as close to permaculture as we can get throughout, a very chemical free environment, a compost pile and no grass whatsoever. As soon as they find all that out I will either be eccentric or some kind of doomsday prepper. Until they all come over for dinner some evening in June, that is.

[cdttmm]

I avoid most media so I certainly can't say I feel in any way pressured by the media to eat a certain way. As for my peers, no pressure there either, even though we're deeply involved in organic urban agriculture and have a few serious urban homesteaders in our midst, you'll still frequently find one or more of the group enjoying food that is neither organic, local, sustainably-raised, or GMO-free -- no one comments. As a gluten-free vegetarian, I am one of the more challenging people I know to have a meal with so I certainly couldn't suggest to others that they alter their food choices without feeling like a complete @$$.

I have only one friend who feels a need to ask me about what I cook for meals and what I eat. I generally ignore him and his wife tells me that he asks me because he is convinced that my life as a whole is just weird and so, therefore, he assumes that I must spend my time preparing and eating weird food for all my meals. I generally ignore his questions or give him some flippant response to shut him up, which works surprisingly well. :devil:

[razz]

My reaction to the article is different than others (so what else is new?;)).
She is an author trying to write an article that triggers discussion in order to sell it but it also comes at it with many biases.

Guilt - A 'committed Catholic' friend commented that guilt is the normal state of being raised in that belief system. She said that she laughs as she says it but too many other Catholics have made the same comment to her.

Feminism - while women may have left out of the artistic recognition and source of revenue for writing, painting and sculpture due to patriarchal control of funding (think church, aristocracy and social mores), women have pursued many artistic outlets that have helped society survive by creating food, utensils, quilts, clothing over the years, weaving, food preservation, needlework, music, etc. By denying this great field of endeavour, she has deliberately narrowed the focus to make her point.

Peer pressure - she is acknowledging that she does not know how to set boundaries on her interaction with others. We all need to learn this but the pressure only exists if one permits it to have power. That is a basic conversation skill.

Diets - whatever one does to restrict a diet whether for caloric intake, nutrients, sources of food etc., requires a conscious choice. Making blind or automatic choices of what is simply available indicates a state of thought that most of my peers don't demonstrate. If we look just to the media and advertising for info on our choices, we are not using all the resources of information that have traditionally advised us. Culture, family history, cookbooks, google search for accurate info and current research and our own common sense.

Homesteading - people are doing this for different reasons whether urban or rural. Some like the independence, some to teach their families skills for the future, some for creative enjoyment, some for taste etc. Simply to lump everyone together may make for an sellable article but does not reflect accurately on the reasons that drive people's actions.

Where I do agree with the author is that many people, both women and men, have very busy lives and are not able to spend the time needed to make informed choices about the huge increase of choice in food, especially the industrially prepared options. So many choose to eat simply and avoid the whole issue. Mankind has eaten and thrived on simple food.

[SteveinMN]

I think you'll find something like that in any endeavor. Several years ago, I participated in a fairly-well-known Web forum on which homes and home-building materials were discussed. I was never the apparent target audience. Too many posts written by people "agonizing" over getting the 48" stove or the 60" stove (!). And it was always a Wolf or a Viking. You could almost hear the haughty sniff when people like me discussed our plebeian 30" Frigidaires and GEs. Ditto for our laminate countertops...

I see a number of new restaurants and food services promoting "local growers" and "organic" and "sustainable" and all the other things which used to be called "farming" back in the 40s and 50s. I think they feel they have to do that to gain credibility among a certain group of people and to appear fresh and current. While that is my preference while eating out, that is not my expectation, so I tend to ignore the noise. I've been a member of my food co-op since 2000 (and a shopper there before then), so I had already decided these were values I wanted to hold well before terms like "farm-to-table" became buzzwords. When someone invites me to dinner, I don't decline because they're serving factory chicken. That may not be what I serve my guests, but I won't decline.

Eventually, the same crowd will move on to what they perceive as the next "morally correct" Big Thing. Let them go.

[pinkytoe]

I'm old enough to have seen two generations of eating and food prep styles. My grandparents grew most of their food and raised cattle. I would visit in the summer, gather eggs, watch the pigs roll, help with the canning, pick and shell peas etc. It was a lot of work. As a child, the image of watching my uncle kill and butcher a cow lives in my brain today. Fast forward to my teen years and watching my mother use mostly convenience foods as advertised on TV. I loved bologna on white bread, Kraft mac and cheese, etc. And now a return to my grandparent's ways as I watch my daughter and nieces raise chickens, garden, etc. I tend to eat what I like but no doubt media and peer pressure have an influence ... so I can't really answer the question. I do like to grow stuff but quickly realized that doing so in this climate is not economical. Recently, I read an article by a vegan referring to dairy products as animal secretions. She's right of course but really.... I guess we are fortunate to have all these options but sometimes the over analysis of eating (and everything else) seems completely ridiculous.

[JaneV2.0]

The article hit all the high points: Portland culture (see Portlandia), Catholic guilt, women taking each others' inventories, Politically correct smugness, art taking a back seat to agriculture...

I've always operated outside the flock, so I don't feel much social pressure. I'm self-critical enough; I don't need a committee to establish my value in this world.

[jp1]

The author of that piece seems to be spending way too much time worrying about what other people think about her. It would probably be worth her time to read Harry Browne's "How I found freedom in an unfree world"

[ApatheticNoMore]

even though we're deeply involved in organic urban agriculture and have a few serious urban homesteaders in our midst, you'll still frequently find one or more of the group enjoying food that is neither organic, local, sustainably-raised, or GMO-free -- no one comments.

+1 exactly, that's what I see too. And really though I'd rather live in a much healthier food culture in general, I regard it the necessary compromise for living in this society (one could say 80-20 but actually it may be much better than 80-20 "good food" 90-10, 95-5?), but "there is nothing pure in this world, and there's nothing sure in this world ...".

[try2bfrugal]

I don't feel any pressure to eat organic or grow my own food. Most of our neighbors don't even cut their own grass, let alone have a vegetable garden. There are two houses that have put in a front yard garden and some that replaced the lawns with native plants, but those are the minority.

I am trying to figure out which of the urban homesteading aspects have the highest ROI. I think for us it won't be gardening. I can get food too cheap, even organic foods, to make it worthwhile just from a money saving aspect. I have a Costco and Trader Joe's within a couple of miles of our house and both carry a lot of relatively inexpensive organic produce and meat. We try different urban homesteading ideas, and some work out and some don't. Offline I don't know a lot of people even interested in the topic. We want to travel more once the kids are both in college, so backyard chickens and gardens are out for us. Cooking from scratch and making our own cleaning supplies is in. Downsizing will be the big money saver. I think people just have to pick and choose what makes sense for their own interests and lifestyles.

[Gregg]

I think people just have to pick and choose what makes sense for their own interests and lifestyles.

+1. There is no one size fits all answer. If you want actual ROI the one thing that will work for everyone to varying degrees is taking steps to make your house more efficient. Add insualtion, repair or replace old windows, put the little foam covers behind your outlets, weatherstrip your doors, buy an LED light, etc. Not really an urban homesteading trend and not so sexy overall, but simple steps can accomplish a lot. Especially if a few million of us do it.

[awakenedsoul]

I was considering moving to Oregon, so it was interesting to read this. I do all the stuff Gregg mentioned is the post above. I am working towards growing all my own food, too. I'm not there yet, but I'm really happy with the improvement I see each season. I belong to an organic co op, and they have incredible prices on bulk fruit. (seconds.) I grow organically, but I don't really talk about it. I couldn't afford to buy organic until I started planting. We grew up with a cattle ranch in the family, so I was used to a separate freezer full of beef. My brothers and I actually got sick of steak! It was overkill. Now it's a huge treat for me, butd I rarely buy it. I get my ground beef from a grass fed farmer from Ventura. It's good quality, and I like the vendor. I don't do it to impress, I do it to stay healthy. I just eat half as much meat to make up the financial difference. (It's very flavorful. A little goes a long way.) I buy raw milk and cheese, too. It's more because I love the taste, and I want to support the farmers. I'd like to get my own miniature goat or dairy cow. I'm seeing a few more people around here growing food. I've always had fruit, herbs, and flowers in my front garden. Anything goes here. You don't have to have a lawn. I also put my pumpkins out in front to cure, and I notice that people slow down to gaze at them when they drive by...I have chickens, and I love the quality of the eggs. I give my extra produce to my neighbors. I think they are more conventionally minded, so I don't say anything about the veggies being organic. They really appreciate the free food, and the fact that it's fresh. They know that I'm trying to grow all of my own food, and sometimes they'll ask me about when to plant, etc...I only say something if I'm asked. My new neighbor asked me if I was a vegetarian. I told him, "No, but I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables." His daughter said, "We saw a woman on t.v. who planted vegetables in her pool!" I laughed and told her I wasn't doing it for doom and gloom reasons. I've done yoga every day for 25 years, so I think that's why people comment that I look healthy and assume I don't eat meat or sweets. I believe in moderation.

[try2bfrugal]

+1. There is no one size fits all answer. If you want actual ROI the one thing that will work for everyone to varying degrees is taking steps to make your house more efficient. Add insualtion, repair or replace old windows, put the little foam covers behind your outlets, weatherstrip your doors, buy an LED light, etc. Not really an urban homesteading trend and not so sexy overall, but simple steps can accomplish a lot. Especially if a few million of us do it.

I think there are definitely some things that have a great return on time and money spent. Anything to do with insulation or LED lights is a one time purchase or work event that saves money for years to come. I like making my own chicken stock but that is something I have to repeat every week to keep saving money so the ROI from purely a financial standpoint isn't as high.

Refinancing our house took about 6 hours of work but if we stay in the house the money saved over the life of the mortgage will come to over $2,000 (after tax equivalent) per hour of work. I have a spreadsheet that I use to try to identify the highest ROI projects like that.

[maribeth]

We know quite a few people who eat only their own home produced vegetables and eggs, and homeschool their kids, and re-fashion their clothes from oddities they found at the thrift store. Usually we run into them on days when we forgot to water our two sad tomato plants and ate hot dogs for dinner, and then I feel a little bit guilty. But at the end of the day, they do what works for them and we do what works for us.

I, too, am glad to be a woman of the modern age who has access to a wide variety of pretty good quality foods at the supermarket. I am capable of making my own jam, stock, bread, clothing, etc., but I am so glad I have the luxury to be able to choose whether or not to do it on any given day.

[small & friendly]

I was almost afraid to start reading this thread because of so much snobbery with some people when it comes to their way of eating, but I applaud so many sensible and balanced comments!
I maintain that if you get hungry enough, I mean really, really hungry, you will eat anything put before you and be thankful. Anorexia nervosa is seldom seen in poor societies. They don't have time for it. They're too busy scrounging for something to fill their bellies. They also don't have time for trendy diets and food fads. They're just glad to have something on the table. So, as far as the lady in the article, she's living in an artificial environment based on fantasy.

[bunnys]

I confess that I have very little exposure to the media beyond watching the news streaming online.

I have no subscriptions to magazines or the newspaper, I don't have a TV and I don't go to the movies very often.

Also, I don't have Facebook so am not exposed to that peer pressure thing.

When that thread on the movie about Hope started today, I had no idea it was about a movie. I'd never heard of the movie.

So I don't really see what's going on because I have very little exposure to advertisements now. Watching online news you only see the same one or two commercials repeated over and over again.

So no, I'm not pressured by the media to live a certain way. But I'm also so out of the loop I kind of feel like a hermit. But it's working for me.

[Rogar]

My take on the article was as much what is or isn't acceptable, but what really matters the most. In the case of the author her point was that trendy gardening and food patterns (loved the analogy to macrame) would not allow her to spend time on her true passion of creativity. In my working days I had just about enough discretionary time to bike commute most of the year and cook most meals at home. I have an artistic pursuit that I take seriously but is probably slightly more than a hobby. That just didn't leave time for things like gardening, composting, culinary delights, and some types of recycling. Even in my current non-working life I have some volunteer work and other things that take priority to an obsession with gardening and food preparation.

Some of my friends are into what I call competition gardening and raise quantities and qualities of food I have no desire to match. I get some snooty grief over my meager attempts, but there are just more important things for me.

In the end it doesn't come down to what people think or even doing what I want, but more doing the right thing by leading a life where creativity, a form of self-sufficiency, and giving back to friends, family, and society are in balance.

[cattledog]

I think it's a false premise to assume that women who are gardening, etc. would be otherwise be pursuing artistic endeavors. Honestly, a good portion of women and mothers work FT. If they want to spend a few hours on the weekend canning tomatoes rather than creating documentaries, so be it.

[try2bfrugal]

One of our neighbors was over the other day bitterly complaining about the latest front yard garden in the neighborhood (this would be garden number two out of 800 homes). There is another house in the neighborhood owned by an elderly person who just has mud in the front yard. No grass or any plants. But the neighbor wasn't complaining about that house! There is something about front yard gardens that get some type of people riled up.

So no, there is no pressure in my neighborhood to garden. If anything it is the opposite.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think it's a false premise to assume that women who are gardening, etc. would be otherwise be pursuing artistic endeavors. Honestly, a good portion of women and mothers work FT. If they want to spend a few hours on the weekend canning tomatoes rather than creating documentaries, so be it.

+1

(And if I wanted to challenge the status quo, I'd be an activist, community organizer, petitioner of local government and out getting myself arrested in the streets all the time in one protest or other, not making art. Art might make people think or feel (probably what I gravitate toward more than activism truth be told) but it's a very round about way to challenge the status quo!).

[awakenedsoul]

One of our neighbors was over the other day bitterly complaining about the latest front yard garden in the neighborhood (this would be garden number two out of 800 homes). There is another house in the neighborhood owned by an elderly person who just has mud in the front yard. No grass or any plants. But the neighbor wasn't complaining about that house! There is something about front yard gardens that get some type of people riled up.

So no, there is no pressure in my neighborhood to garden. If anything it is the opposite.

I know what you mean. It seems to trigger something primal. People resond to beauty. Right now my front garden has lots of sunflowers, zinnias, conifers, herbs, geraniums in window boxes, and two citrus. It really gives off a nice vibe. It takes my breath away when I'm out there. A neighbor stopped by and commented on how many butterflies there were. We were talking about how cheap it is to cool a small cottage as opposed to a large, two story house. She gazed at the row of trees I have that block the sun midday. "So many trees..." she commented. The previous owner had planted a ponderosa pine, a poplar, and a fruitless mulberry. They really work; I can feel the oxygen. She has a lawn and rose garden. She told me she'd like to have all flowers, but her husband likes the lawn, and he takes good care of it.

One of my neighbors has a school bus in their front yard, with some broken down cars and angry NO TRESPASSING signs. Some people here just store their junk in their front yards. No one really says anything. It's a hodgpodge.

[cattledog]

The writer admits that she feels a certain amount of guilt and pressure around food -- specifically eating local, sustainable, simple, organic, whatever. It's a conversation we've had here periodically - who choose what options, and why, etc.




Something along these lines- we had a neighborhood potluck not too long ago. I've never seen so many healthy dishes on a table (mostly vegan, etc.). That's fine, but when you take a walk on recycling day and see all the empty boxes of cereal, crackers, frozen pizzas, etc., etc., it's clearly not how they eat all the time. I thought it was funny.

[bunnys]

I think it's a false premise to assume that women who are gardening, etc. would be otherwise be pursuing artistic endeavors. Honestly, a good portion of women and mothers work FT. If they want to spend a few hours on the weekend canning tomatoes rather than creating documentaries, so be it.

Uh, that is artistic. That is creative. That is productive.

[awakenedsoul]

Uh, that is artistic. That is creative. That is productive.

I agree. When I was in my 30's I was assistant director on a Broadway show playing in Berlin. I felt like I did a much better job at the theater when I spent time at home cooking, baking, and meditating. Now that the home and garden are my main focus, I can really enjoy animals, nature, and minimal spending.

[puglogic]

I think it's a false premise to assume that women who are gardening, etc. would be otherwise be pursuing artistic endeavors. Honestly, a good portion of women and mothers work FT. If they want to spend a few hours on the weekend canning tomatoes rather than creating documentaries, so be it.

I work full time, and my garden IS my artistic pursuit. So I'm fortunate: I can eat my art :)

[cattledog]

Uh, that is artistic. That is creative. That is productive.

I agree, but the woman in the article did not.

[iris lily]

I like gardening because I can use my left brain talents to create art, traditionally right brain stuff. I don't landscape with plants which IS an artistic endeavor, I plop things down where I have appropriate room. But still, because Mother Nature is brilliant, things look fine when all is in bloom.

[jp1]

I think it's a false premise to assume that women who are gardening, etc. would be otherwise be pursuing artistic endeavors. Honestly, a good portion of women and mothers work FT. If they want to spend a few hours on the weekend canning tomatoes rather than creating documentaries, so be it.

And I agree with bunny's comment a little bit later that this IS an artistic pursuit. However, not everyone finds tasks like gardening, canning, etc to be artistic or fun. Some people simply find them one more time consuming chore in an already too busy life. And that's ok too. If there are alternatives why spend life energy on a task one doesn't enjoy. I'd much rather spend $21/week for a box of CSA veggies. That's not even 45 minutes of life energy spent at my job to earn that money. Trying to go grow the variety and quality of veggies I get would take far more time. If I found gardening enjoyable or artistic I wouldn't mind that extra time. But I don't, so I'm happy to pay our farmer.

[awakenedsoul]

And I agree with bunny's comment a little bit later that this IS an artistic pursuit. However, not everyone finds tasks like gardening, canning, etc to be artistic or fun. Some people simply find them one more time consuming chore in an already too busy life. And that's ok too. If there are alternatives why spend life energy on a task one doesn't enjoy. I'd much rather spend $21/week for a box of CSA veggies. That's not even 45 minutes of life energy spent at my job to earn that money. Trying to go grow the variety and quality of veggies I get would take far more time. If I found gardening enjoyable or artistic I wouldn't mind that extra time. But I don't, so I'm happy to pay our farmer.

He's probably happy, too. I belong to an organic co op. Now that I grow so much food, I just buy from them every 4-6 weeks. I told them why, and they were very appreciative. Twice she said, "Thanks for telling me why." (I used to be a weekly customer.) I started buying my raw milk, raw cheese, and meat from them, too. That way I spend about the same amount. She told me that she and her husband and son are living in a motor home right now. They wnt to grow their own food someday, too. They depend on the money.

[jp1]

Judging from the newsletter that comes each week with the veggies it's clear that my farmer views his job as both artistic and something he's very passionate about. He clearly enjoys it far more than I would if I were to try and grow them myself.