View Full Version : So tired of the lies............
I've become so aware of the lies that so many commercials use. Its unconscionable.
This morning I heard a new ad on TV for toilet paper. I can't remember the exact words but it was something to effect, "A child's growth is dependent on being clean".
Give me a break! Yes, I agree that if a child lives in absolute squalor, it might adversely affect them.........but not using a REALLY soft toilet paper to wipe their butts will stunt their growth????
gimmethesimplelife
8-24-12, 9:10am
I've become so aware of the lies that so many commercials use. Its unconscionable.
This morning I heard a new ad on TV for toilet paper. I can't remember the exact words but it was something to effect, "A child's growth is dependent on being clean".
Give me a break! Yes, I agree that if a child lives in absolute squalor, it might adversely affect them.........but not using a REALLY soft toilet paper to wipe their butts will stunt their growth????Good reason to turn off the TV and minimize your exposure to advertising.....This is something that I really need to work on myself. Rob
Advertising is one reason why I think a course in critical thinking should be part of every elementary-school curriculum. People should learn to think for themselves and question when things don't sound right. Low-information citizens are a country's biggest threat.
Advertising is one reason why I think a course in critical thinking should be part of every elementary-school curriculum. People should learn to think for themselves and question when things don't sound right. Low-information citizens are a country's biggest threat.
But they make the best consumers - I expect a population versed in critical thinking would be the nemesis of many retailers.
decemberlov
8-24-12, 9:33am
Funny, I was just thinking along the same lines this morning. I heard a Verizon commercial on the radio saying how wonderful Sarah feels that her children are now ready for the school year since Sarah bought her children smart phones!!! She's confidant about her budget and finances (you know since smart phones are so inexpensive!) What happened to just pencils & paper and folders and the essentials? Now our children need smart phones and ipads included on their back to school shopping lists? Give me a break!
They are not exactly lies. What they do is to say something that you have to agree with, and position that statement in proximity to a product and the consumer draws the conclusion. So I agree that critical thinking skills are essential.
I have also (soapbox alert) claimed for years that the education system, which is funded at least somewhat politically in many places, has been co-opted to make children into good consumers rather than critical thinkers. True critical thinking is not taught directly most places, and it violates the assumptions that many people have about information. For example, there is a lack of distinction in news media between news and commentary, and as a result, people believe "news" that is (frequently unsupported or poorly supported) opinion.
(Forcibly pulling myself off the soapbox) yes, it give me the heebie jeebies....I just don't expose myself to advertising much, and when I do, I am dismissive of claims that come from someone with a vested interest.
Advertising is one reason why I think a course in critical thinking should be part of every elementary-school curriculum. People should learn to think for themselves and question when things don't sound right. Low-information citizens are a country's biggest threat.
+1 Steve +1 Start in kindergarten and every year right up to graduation. Of course there could be some resistance since politicians seem to use tactics similar to Charmin's...
Young kids can't even tell the difference between the TV show and the commercials. They don't have the analytical skills to benefit from a critical thinking class in elementary school. The government should protect children by heavily regulating the kinds of advertising that are used to market products to children.
CathyA--gimmiethesimplelife had a good point. Turn off the TV. I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about how my exposure to pop culture and advertising has been crippled because I no longer have a TV. I have no clue what's going on bc all the TV I watch is streaming online and so I choose what I have exposure to and online TV has far fewer ads and usually repeats the same ads over and over ad nauseam. So I've never heard of that toilet paper ad. It is so freeing. You will not miss it.
decemberlov
8-24-12, 9:56am
This thread reminded me of those high fructose commercials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ-ByUx552s
You are absolutely right about school teaching excess consumerism. My school asked that the kids have new crayons every year. Why? We already had a few million used ones at home.
My kids were fairly removed from all that stuff before they started school. Then, when school started for them, they saw the massive stuff that everyone else had, and of course, they wanted it.
(That didn't mean they got it).
I remember a commercial a few years ago where the mom came home from a shopping trip and her 2 kids got hysterically happy when she showed them the notebooks and pencils they got for them. The commercial was being facetious, of course. But.......my kids acted that way! I think they learned to appreciate getting little things like that, because they didn't get them all the time.
So much waste everywhere.
iris lily
8-24-12, 10:53am
Advertising is one reason why I think a course in critical thinking should be part of every elementary-school curriculum. People should learn to think for themselves and question when things don't sound right. Low-information citizens are a country's biggest threat.
I agree, although I'm not assuming that some version of that does not already exists. I would guess that critical thinking is a goal of education. Maybe the classroom teachers here can respond.
I'm not one to throw out a list of things that the schools should be teaching because I think they've got enough to do, but this one is important.
LOL. Cathy, my kids act that way too. I still love fresh school supplies.
When my kids went to public school the lists were ridiculous. 48 new pencils per kid. I'm not even kidding. In a class of 25 kids that's 1200 pencils. Even if some of them forget or don't bring that many, that's still insane.
awakenedsoul
8-24-12, 11:03am
When my kids went to public school the lists were ridiculous. 48 new pencils per kid. I'm not even kidding. In a class of 25 kids that's 1200 pencils. Even if some of them forget or don't bring that many, that's still insane.[/QUOTE]
Unbelievable! I'd love to see schools go back to the basics. I had an excellent fifth grade teacher who taught from an old book that was probably from the 1930's. We took turns writing the English and Math homework on the blackboard. The rest of us copied it down on newprint paper. If someone was absent, he had me write their homework down, too. One of us would take the homework to the child's house. We had a spelling bee every Friday. By the end of the year, we were all working at eighth grade level. He was very old school and disciplined. I loved it!
decemberlov
8-24-12, 11:14am
When my kids went to public school the lists were ridiculous. 48 new pencils per kid. I'm not even kidding. In a class of 25 kids that's 1200 pencils. Even if some of them forget or don't bring that many, that's still insane.
48 pencils??!! :laff: oh my!
Here is a note that I plan on sending with my children as we have gotten the list that asks for hand sanitizer, ziploc bags & such from the kids. I found this on naturemom's blog and thought it was perfect:
Dear (Inserts Teacher’s Name),
My son/daughter (insert name here) is happy to be a part of your class this year. To help us get prepared we shopped for the necessary school supplies together and used the list you and the school provided to guide us. I wanted to write a quick note to you to explain why there are some deviations from the specific products you recommended.
In our household we have “green” values and we strive to live our lives with as little environmental impact as we possibly can. This no doubt effects some of the choices we make in our every day lives and the type of products we buy. We believe that every consumer choice we make is essentially a vote for the type of world we want to live in and we want a clean and beautiful earth for generations to come. To that end we have made the following deviations from your original list. I hope you understand why we have done this and will support our efforts for a cleaner planet.
Purell Hand Sanitizer – This product has some unsavory chemicals that can be potentially dangerous for children so instead we have purchased a bottle of Clean Well hand sanitizer. In lieu of harsh chemicals, it uses essential oils from plants to kill bacteria. While it may not be the specific brand or type of sanitizer you had requested I hope you can see that it has the same function and it is a product I am comfortable with as well.
Brawny Paper Towels – I have purchased a package of Seventh Generation paper towels for this requirement. While we generally do not use disposable products such as this in our own home but I recognize the need in a school setting where clean up resources are limited. To that end we are positive that these unbleached paper towels made from 80% post-consumer waste paper will work well.
Ziploc Plastic Bags – We do not use plastic bags in our home as they have many negative environmental impacts and recycling facilities for these are hard to come by. I would appreciate a quick note or phone call (insert number) to let me know what these bags would be used for so I can find an appropriate alternative that will work for us both.
Thank you for your time. I know I will enjoy working with you this year. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns.
Respectfully,
The Nut-job Parent
mtnlaurel
8-24-12, 11:31am
Advertising is one reason why I think a course in critical thinking should be part of every elementary-school curriculum. People should learn to think for themselves and question when things don't sound right. Low-information citizens are a country's biggest threat.
Just this past week I came across (again) this George Carlin piece 'The American Dream'.
At the 1:05 mark he says, "'They' ['the owners of this country'] don't want a system of critical thinking.... that is against their interest."
WARNING: If you are sensitive to curse words or graphic imagery DO NOT play this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&feature=share
Re: Toilet Paper's 'new' features...
I too have noticed this whole new approach to TP... Do I want a soft experience? Do I want a thorough experience?
Is the Mama Bear in the little cartoon commercial more loving because she is in tune with Baby Bear's tp needs? (charmin ads, I think)
It is truly funny to me.
LOL. Cathy, my kids act that way too. I still love fresh school supplies.
When my kids went to public school the lists were ridiculous. 48 new pencils per kid. I'm not even kidding. In a class of 25 kids that's 1200 pencils. Even if some of them forget or don't bring that many, that's still insane.
Send a note to the teacher saying you'd like a receipt sent home for each pencil your child uses - and you'd like any unused pencils (and any other unused supplies) sent back at the end of the year. Encourage classmate parents to do the same :-)
ApatheticNoMore
8-24-12, 11:58am
The chances of even absolute squalor interfering with a kids physical growth have to be very small (just a small chance of infectious disease), so find me one case where a kid lived in absolute squalor, they got sick, and the sickness ended up affecting their growth. So no I'm not even sure it's even *kinda* true.
Young kids can't even tell the difference between the TV show and the commercials. They don't have the analytical skills to benefit from a critical thinking class in elementary school.
How young are we talking? While not having fully developed brains fully capable of adult reasoning, I don't know that nothing can be taught. At the very least the opposite BIAS can MOST DEFINITELY be taught. What's the opposite bias? Doubt everything in a t.v. commercial, distrust them as such, resist them. Know that they are only out to sell you stuff. All this I was taught. Am I only one growing up that loved watching "Fight Back!". Not really anti-consumerism at all but skeptical toward testable product claims, and they would then test the product to see if it met it's own claims. See that stuff is actually great! That stuff could only be beneficial if it existed now.
I was taught reflexive skepticism, was taught to always question claims, was taught (indirectly) simple logical errors used to pursuade (math geek mom, sorry). We were taught in school the difference between fact and opinion, in fact seemed to do endless word problems on the topic (I get it already!). I also often sat in the class room with the teacher presenting information wondering if that was the only way to see things, or if the same information could be made to mean something else as it were (and in fact making up 'something elses' in my head while I listened - maybe I was indeed a little bored in school!). Yea anyway, I went into class skeptical.
But it's really an extreme defensive position (the world, the advertisers, at least) are enemies. And that is why it might well be better just not to have advertisements aimed at children period (teenagers sure, but not children proper). Because to have to make kids fight the culture so much ... I don't know. Now I simply avoid media :)
I always experienced back to school commercials as a form of tormenting, as in "yes I know I have to go back to school in September, I know this summer freedom is fleeting, I know that's the way it is, I just have to do it, but why do I have to be REMINDED of it NOW? Isn't it enough I just do it when the time comes? Why torture me with endless reminders of that yuckiness ahead of time?". The adult equivalent would be like out having a good time with someone from work on the weekend, enjoying some nice leisure activity, and all they want to talk about is some mess at the office. I mean like, yes I know, I'm under no illusion it went away, but I don't want to think about it now, I don't get paid enough for this, I'll worry about it Monday! Back to school commercials always seemed gratuitious tormenting of children, pointless tormenting for tormenting sake, why were they so very very cruel to constantly beat us over the head with the unpleasant fact of school starting again? (in truth as in all such marketing, they just wanted to make a buck! - the tormenting was collateral damage :)).
I can't imagine many schools, where the majority of the population is poor enough to qualify for school lunches, demanding kids buy a whole bunch of school supplies. Child poverty is really a pervasive problem, very common, so it's seems so obviously "class insensitive" and clueless, as it were, to demand kids buy an excess of supplies (a pack of pencils and notebook if necessary yes, but much beyond that ...).
But they make the best consumers - I expect a population versed in critical thinking would be the nemesis of many retailers.
Yes. Yes I am ;)
Critical thinking was a required course in my college, and it's proven more valuable to me than anything else, hands down.
Decemberlov...........that's a great letter! Thanks for posting it.
This country (The U.S.......and probably others) is so good at creating needs and then convincing everyone of its validity. How crazy.
And bears don't even use toilet paper..........do they? :moon: :~)
Really when it comes to critical thought and analysis (REAL critical thought and analysis, not just parroting the thoughts of the parents) we're talking 8th-9th grade on. Just as their bodies go through puberty and have a big ole growth spurt, so do their brains. Before this age, their brains are not developed enough to process thought on this sophisticated a level. It's fine to teach empathy and respect and values to younger children but they are not physically capable of higher level thinking until later. I'm not making this stuff up. It's human physiology.
I'm a teacher, teachers are just trying to do their job with limited resources and on a really low salary (unless they live in a union state which VERY FEW teachers do, myself included.) Please don't request that the teacher send a receipt home for every pencil used. They simply don't have time do it and then you'll get angry. If you don't want to comply with the supply list, don't. You don't have to. They'll make it work for those parents who don't get whatever is requested, regardless of the reason and it doesn't matter what the reason is. If you send a big long note in talking about consumerism and green justifications for not complying with the school supply list, you'll just take a bunch of the teacher's time making her read your note and believe me, her values are already formed. She doesn't need a lecture. Wait until she asks and then tell her why.
Trust me, a 12-year-old boy can easily lose one pencil per class period--frequently he can lose 2. At 6 class periods per day, 48 pencils is about a week and a half's worth of supplies. This was a list for the year and they ONLY asked for 48 pencils? You think I'm kidding?
And as far as going "back to the basics" I am old school myself. I hate technology. I love humanities. I push humanities and teach humanities. However, we no longer live in a 1930's world. These kids must learn this stuff and they must EXCEL at this stuff if we want to remain a competitive nation. Further, parents would lose their minds if teachers went back to teaching the way they did in the 1930's. "Why didn't my kid go to the computer lab 3x this week? What are you teaching at that school, anyway?" and "What do you mean my sick child's success in your class is contingent on another child writing down the homework assignment correctly, collecting all the extra papers and delivering them to my child at home? That kid is 10-years-old!! Aren't you the teacher? Where did you go to college anyway?"
I know this sound overly dramatic but it's true. Any other teachers care to chime in?
decemberlov
8-24-12, 1:07pm
Decemberlov...........that's a great letter! Thanks for posting it.
This country (The U.S.......and probably others) is so good at creating needs and then convincing everyone of its validity. How crazy.
And bears don't even use toilet paper..........do they? :moon: :~)
I liked it a lot too!
Hmmm now you have me thinking...DO bears really use toilet paper? :~):laff:
I liked it a lot too!
Hmmm now you have me thinking...DO bears really use toilet paper? :~):laff:
Can you fault a marketer for trying to open up a new market?
decemberlov
8-24-12, 1:18pm
I'm a teacher, teachers are just trying to do their job with limited resources and on a really low salary (unless they live in a union state which VERY FEW teachers do, myself included.) Please don't request that the teacher send a receipt home for every pencil used. They simply don't have time do it and then you'll get angry. If you don't want to comply with the supply list, don't. You don't have to. They'll make it work for those parents who don't get whatever is requested, regardless of the reason and it doesn't matter what the reason is. If you send a big long note in talking about consumerism and green justifications for not complying with the school supply list, you'll just take a bunch of the teacher's time making her read your note and believe me, her values are already formed. She doesn't need a lecture. Wait until she asks and then tell her why.
Bunny, this does make sense from your point of view. I guess if all of us parents did this sort of thing, the teacher wouldn't have time to actually do her job and teach our kids. Maybe this is more of a conversation left for back to school night, etc.
Sorry if I turned this into a school conversation. I am absolutely grateful for teachers and do understand that just about all of them put out their own money for supplies.
ApatheticNoMore
8-24-12, 1:20pm
Pencils aren't very expensive, but I'm mostly thinking many parents are too poor to afford much in the way of supplies.
I'm a teacher, teachers are just trying to do their job with limited resources and on a really low salary (unless they live in a union state which VERY FEW teachers do, myself included.) Please don't request that the teacher send a receipt home for every pencil used. They simply don't have time do it and then you'll get angry. If you don't want to comply with the supply list, don't. You don't have to. They'll make it work for those parents who don't get whatever is requested, regardless of the reason and it doesn't matter what the reason is. If you send a big long note in talking about consumerism and green justifications for not complying with the school supply list, you'll just take a bunch of the teacher's time making her read your note and believe me, her values are already formed. She doesn't need a lecture. Wait until she asks and then tell her why.
I couldn't agree more. I'm sorry, that letter was sanctimonious. It seems like teachers are getting dumped on from every direction. If you doesn't want to supply Ziploc bags, then don't. A note carefully explaining your values isn't necessary.
Pencils aren't very expensive, but I'm mostly thinking many parents are too poor to afford much in the way of supplies.
In my district, something like 3/4th of the students qualify for free lunch. I'm not sure how supplies are handled. They must rely on donations.
I'm a teacher, teachers are just trying to do their job with limited resources and on a really low salary (unless they live in a union state which VERY FEW teachers do, myself included.) Please don't request that the teacher send a receipt home for every pencil used.
That was very tongue in cheek and was not meant to be take seriously. Although it feels like a progression - my kids in the 80's got very short lists of supplies, and it was more "here's a good list of things to have your first week in school" than we want you to bring a year's worth of supplies. When I went to school I don't remember having any lists at all (except for maybe bring in #2 pencils to fill in the ovals on the Iowa skills tests).
Are these supplies usually segregated by contributor or pooled?
I know we all do what we have to do - I'm just annoyed that these materials are not built into school budgets. Even more so that we are so dependent on teachers kicking in their own money for kids supplies there's a tax deduction specifically for it.
I thought that note to the teacher was good in that it, hopefully, made the teacher aware of all the excess and waste.
I'm just annoyed that these materials are not built into school budgets.
Believe me, so am I.
I just wanted to address the issue from another perspective. I didn't take the letter or prior comments seriously or take offense but the sentiments of what I said really are true. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff I hear. While there's a lot of really great and rewarding stuff about being a teacher, we are frequently vilified--usually unfairly.
decemberlov
8-24-12, 3:32pm
I thought that note to the teacher was good in that it, hopefully, made the teacher aware of all the excess and waste.
I did too but Bunny did have a good point as well.
I still think it's a decent idea but possibly better suited for a quick face to face conversation or maybe revised to not come off so "sanctimonious" as someone else stated. I also get that maybe as for what seems like an over abundance of stuff is because most people just don't bring it in at all? I don't know? Maybe Bunny could chime in on this as well. One thing that had me thinking was the number of dry erase markers asked for. My daughter is requested to bring 5 dry erase markers. If ever child brought 5...that's approx. 100 per classroom (and dry erase markers are not cheap!). Wouldn't 1 per child do? But again maybe this is because not everyone is bringing in these things.
Decemberlov:
What seems like an overabundance of supplies to parents in practice, isn't. Half of all the dry erase markers brought won't be used until they dry out, they'll have their caps left off until they dry out. Another third will simply be lost. I teach high school and my kids aren't nearly as wet (literally) as elementary kids but little kids are always sick and they are dripping with fluids from every orifice of their bodies. I wouldn't think 3 boxes of Kleenex per kid is out of line. Some parents want their kids exposed to germs because they want their children to develop strong immune system and wouldn't dream of using hand sanitizer. And then there are the overprotective moms. Teacher has to err on the side of caution because if not and kiddie comes home sick, overprotective Mama will blast teacher. Additionally, there are a lot of filthy bodies in every school classroom. Teacher must guarantee there will be no typhoid out break so she can actually teach! It is probably a good idea for hand sanitizer to be used in every elementary school classroom. (No, they don't care if you send in name brand or green alternative. They just want something. Use the name brand because many people don't say "hand sanitizer" they say "Purell.")
Supplies must be bought in excess because kids don't care if they lose half the colored pencils there will always be more and I've seen what the custodians sweep up every day. And teacher has one shot at getting supplies for the entire year and that is the first week of school. Anything left over at the end of the year will be saved and used by that teacher for next year's kids. Just as your kid may go into a new classroom and benefit from the previous year's surplus supplies.
Yes, plenty of parents don't bring in anything or only part of the list for a variety of reasons. Usually because they can't afford it. Yes, these "communal" supplies have to stretch to the entire class. Can't tell impoverished Janie she can't have a Kleenex for her runny nose in January because her mother couldn't afford the Kleenex requirement at the beginning of the year.
This is the way I look at it. I am green. I am pretty much anti-consumerist. I hate waste and think long and hard before I purchase things and make sure I know an item has lost all its utility before I toss it. That said, I don't think one dime spent on public education is wasted money. In fact, I can't think of an area that is more worthy of being fully funded with everything necessary for student to learn. I trust that teachers have been doing this job for awhile and know what they need and aren't taking my excess loose leaf paper and selling it on the black market to supplement their meager salaries (although I can understand the temptation.)
I am not a parent of a school age child but if I were I'd purchase the supplies the teacher requests (or at least all I could afford) send them in and then move on down the road and engage in green in my life in areas I could control.
As a disclaimer: I am one teacher. Not the authority speaking for the entire profession. Take my opinion of this for what it is, opinion.
Hope this helps.
decemberlov
8-24-12, 4:45pm
Decemberlov:
What seems like an overabundance of supplies to parents in practice, isn't. Half of all the dry erase markers brought won't be used until they dry out, they'll have their caps left off until they dry out. Another third will simply be lost. I teach high school and my kids aren't nearly as wet (literally) as elementary kids but little kids are always sick and they are dripping with fluids from every orifice of their bodies. I wouldn't think 3 boxes of Kleenex per kid is out of line. Some parents want their kids exposed to germs because they want their children to develop strong immune system and wouldn't dream of using hand sanitizer. And then there are the overprotective moms. Teacher has to err on the side of caution because if not and kiddie comes home sick, overprotective Mama will blast teacher. Additionally, there are a lot of filthy bodies in every school classroom. Teacher must guarantee there will be no typhoid out break so she can actually teach! It is probably a good idea for hand sanitizer to be used in every elementary school classroom. (No, they don't care if you send in name brand or green alternative. They just want something. Use the name brand because many people don't say "hand sanitizer" they say "Purell.")
Supplies must be bought in excess because kids don't care if they lose half the colored pencils there will always be more and I've seen what the custodians sweep up every day. And teacher has one shot at getting supplies for the entire year and that is the first week of school. Anything left over at the end of the year will be saved and used by that teacher for next year's kids. Just as your kid may go into a new classroom and benefit from the previous year's surplus supplies.
Yes, plenty of parents don't bring in anything or only part of the list for a variety of reasons. Usually because they can't afford it. Yes, these "communal" supplies have to stretch to the entire class. Can't tell impoverished Janie she can't have a Kleenex for her runny nose in January because her mother couldn't afford the Kleenex requirement at the beginning of the year.
This is the way I look at it. I am green. I am pretty much anti-consumerist. I hate waste and think long and hard before I purchase things and make sure I know an item has lost all its utility before I toss it. That said, I don't think one dime spent on public education is wasted money. In fact, I can't think of an area that is more worthy of being fully funded with everything necessary for student to learn. I trust that teachers have been doing this job for awhile and know what they need and aren't taking my excess loose leaf paper and selling it on the black market to supplement their meager salaries (although I can understand the temptation.)
I am not a parent of a school age child but if I were I'd purchase the supplies the teacher requests (or at least all I could afford) send them in and then move on down the road and engage in green in my life in areas I could control.
As a disclaimer: I am one teacher. Not the authority speaking for the entire profession. Take my opinion of this for what it is, opinion.
Hope this helps.
This definitely makes sense. Thank you for such a thorough explanation laced with humor. And thank you for your hard work education out future generation. I'm sure it is an incredibly difficult job. I didn't have any intentions on not purchasing the items asked for on the list but did question it some. Glad you could clarify and put things in a different light for me.
Trust me, a 12-year-old boy can easily lose one pencil per class period--frequently he can lose 2. At 6 class periods per day, 48 pencils is about a week and a half's worth of supplies. This was a list for the year and they ONLY asked for 48 pencils? You think I'm kidding?
My kids are homeschooled now, but that year my daughter used about 12 pencils. I still have some of those 48 pencils 3 years later.
My local school district has some confused budget management.
The K-12 school library will be closed this year, because of lack of funds to staff it. Imagine that - a school, without a library. Parent volunteers cannot staff the library, the union contracts forbid it... We will be asked this next election to approve a school ballot to build *a new, even bigger/better library* at the cost of millions of dollars. However, there is no plan for how we will be able to have anybody staffing the new library, so I suppose it will sit, closed, as well. In-class, we don't have enough textbooks for every kid, and many of the ones we have aren't the same editions from student-to-student, or are simply out-of-date. A school without books. How progressive!
We will however have funds for paying coaches for multiple sports. These sports are outside the normal phys-ed class requirements, but sports are fun, heck. They cancelled the physics class and the entry-level Spanish class this year, because they couldn't afford staff. And tried to combine the entire K-12 music program into one multi-age classroom experience.... But we have administrators and admin assistants stacked like cordwood, receiving salaries for this sort of "management". They laid off the one remaining maintenance guy, and cut the maintenance materials down to almost nothing, but the upcoming bond measure is asking us to approve more new buildings for them to fail to maintain - the buildings they wish to replace are only ~20 years old...
Going to school board budget meetings is maddening.
The focus on actually educating children has been almost completely lost, but everybody is lining up to get a piece of the rather large budget and bonding capacity allocated to their special group's "needs" - generally salaries for people who don't teach or contribute directly to the education of the children.
I'm just annoyed that these materials are not built into school budgets.
Around here I'm more annoyed that the administration is 9 levels deep. NINE! Not including teachers. No wonder they can't afford pencils.
Pencils aren't very expensive, but I'm mostly thinking many parents are too poor to afford much in the way of supplies.
A DD of some very close family friends is a 6th grade teacher. I know she spends a good part of her salary on supplies. Her parents are quite comfortable so are able to help her out so she can keep teaching. This year we decided to give her a birthday gift of supplies. I was going to do all pencils. Wal-Mart had 12 packs on sale for $.05. Yes, a nickel. Our budget for her gift was $100. That would have been 24,000 pencils. Needless to say they got some markers, glue, construction paper, folders, etc. to go with the pencils.
awakenedsoul
8-24-12, 7:41pm
Very sad to hear what's going on in schools right now. I didn't mean that teachers should teach the way my teacher did. I just think that basics have been lost, both at home and at school. I taught ballet for over 30 years, and I had excellent results with a syllabus. It's over 300 years old, and it's Russian. It worked like magic, and just brought out their talent. But, I had the freedom to use my own material. The kids' scores shot up, so the parents and studio owner were happy.
In my last years of teaching, I noticed a lot of kids couldn't, (or wouldn't) get their shoes on, or be ready to start class on time. When I volunteered in the garden at our local elementary school, I noticed that several of the boys didn't even bother to tie their shoelaces. I saw one girl there on the weekend, and she rode her bike over in her "pajamas." (She had slept in her clothes.) The grounding really is an important foundation. The parents seemed overextended, too. I also think doing regular chores at home would help kids. Some of the older boys in my neighborhood are learning trades like plumbing, etc...it's so good for them. So many of the boundaries and good habits at home have been lost...
... We will be asked this next election to approve a school ballot to build *a new, even bigger/better library* at the cost of millions of dollars. However, there is no plan for how we will be able to have anybody staffing the new library, so I suppose it will sit, closed, as well. ...
Your vote is pretty clear.
It's tough to get bonds passed for much needed public works, let alone fancy-schmancy stuff. Good luck in bringing a reality check to school spending. There's not a chance in h*ll that I'd be voting in favor of another money grab from my local school system.
Even as far as I am outside the public school loop, I'm aware of a lot of waste and parental shakedowns locally--layers of administrators, aides, reundant buildings, missing monies...The best I can do is not vote on school levies, because given what I do know and given what I'm paying out in property taxes, I'd be inclined to vote against them.
Wildflower
8-24-12, 10:39pm
48 pencils??!! :laff: oh my!
Here is a note that I plan on sending with my children as we have gotten the list that asks for hand sanitizer, ziploc bags & such from the kids. I found this on naturemom's blog and thought it was perfect:
Dear (Inserts Teacher’s Name),
My son/daughter (insert name here) is happy to be a part of your class this year. To help us get prepared we shopped for the necessary school supplies together and used the list you and the school provided to guide us. I wanted to write a quick note to you to explain why there are some deviations from the specific products you recommended.
In our household we have “green” values and we strive to live our lives with as little environmental impact as we possibly can. This no doubt effects some of the choices we make in our every day lives and the type of products we buy. We believe that every consumer choice we make is essentially a vote for the type of world we want to live in and we want a clean and beautiful earth for generations to come. To that end we have made the following deviations from your original list. I hope you understand why we have done this and will support our efforts for a cleaner planet.
Purell Hand Sanitizer – This product has some unsavory chemicals that can be potentially dangerous for children so instead we have purchased a bottle of Clean Well hand sanitizer. In lieu of harsh chemicals, it uses essential oils from plants to kill bacteria. While it may not be the specific brand or type of sanitizer you had requested I hope you can see that it has the same function and it is a product I am comfortable with as well.
Brawny Paper Towels – I have purchased a package of Seventh Generation paper towels for this requirement. While we generally do not use disposable products such as this in our own home but I recognize the need in a school setting where clean up resources are limited. To that end we are positive that these unbleached paper towels made from 80% post-consumer waste paper will work well.
Ziploc Plastic Bags – We do not use plastic bags in our home as they have many negative environmental impacts and recycling facilities for these are hard to come by. I would appreciate a quick note or phone call (insert number) to let me know what these bags would be used for so I can find an appropriate alternative that will work for us both.
Thank you for your time. I know I will enjoy working with you this year. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or concerns.
Respectfully,
The Nut-job Parent
I couldn't believe this when I read it. My oldest DD is a teacher. She has absolutely no authority or choice in what is requested as far as school supplies go. You need to go to the administration with your little note....
And I can't tell you how often she has had to go and purchase school supplies out of her own money to make-up for those that didn't or couldn't bring enough...
Please don't dump on the lowly teacher who can barely pay her/his own bills on her/his meager salary. In fact, you might want to consider her/him an ally, a person that is truly concerned about helping your child learn...
Really, why do you think anyone ever goes into educating kids - it's definitely not for the money or the perks, it's because they LOVE what they do. Or at least they LOVE it in the beginning before they get burnt out from all of the parents with their various attitudes and agendas...
I'm sorry, this kind of stuff makes me angry. I know how hard my DD worked to become a teacher and how much she cares. It really hurts to read some of the petty, nasty things people say and think about teachers these days....
iris lily
8-24-12, 11:56pm
I agree, the letter form the greenie was annoying. I wonder if some prig actually sent that.
Really, why do you think anyone ever goes into educating kids - it's definitely not for the money or the perks, it's because they LOVE what they do. Or at least they LOVE it in the beginning before they get burnt out from all of the parents with their various attitudes and agendas...
My husband's family is filled with retired teachers and still practicing teachers.... I listen to their conversations over the holidays and their biggest issues seem to be with administration, nonsensical curriculum and teaching to the test.
One soon-to-retire is a PE teacher (she has a dance background - so think cooperative movement & health vs. 'kill skinny in Dodgeball') and that very, very positive fun woman has morphed into one real cynical grump when she talks about her work. I firmly believe that if we could get the kids to daily PE we'd see better behaved classes, more focused learners, less medicated kids and more healthy/slimmer kids. Both of my kids - if I want to have a good day around the house, I have to exercise them like border collies :).
I live in an area with a lot of financially blessed people abounding with type A personalities -- the schools here practically beg "Please, parents you don't have to be so involved".
You hear of parents doing kids homework, bullying teachers for grades, and to hear the college conversations in the grocery --- it is cut throat.
If I ruled the world and were an elected official, I would work like the dickens to figure out how to get class size down....
To Bae's post --- THAT is the most depressing thing I ever heard. What a mess.
Looking back... I went to schools in the south that didn't even have air conditioning in some parts of the buildings, but what made the biggest difference to me was my 6th & 7th grade teacher.
He was a retired engineer and he let us just discuss things all day long.
I went to a small parochial school, not ritzy, and we stayed with the same teacher all day except for a few that came into our classroom.
We would cover things in school that I couldn't wait to get home and talk about with my mom.
He pulled together a Drafting Class on the side, for those that were interested.
He was an amazing man. No non-sense, if you cut up - it was like unleashing a tornado. And his discipline methods were not PC and pretty archaic.
I feel like that one person set me on a trajectory of learning that couldn't be matched.
If anyone ever thinks that one person can't make a difference -- they DO every day!
awakenedsoul
8-25-12, 1:55pm
mtnlaurel,
Beautiful post. It brought tears to my eyes. That's how I feel about the fifth grade teacher I mentioned. In those days, it seems that teachers had total control over their classroom. He had us diagram sentences on the blackboard and write them down on paper. (Just like we did with Math.) It really helped our writing. Now after such a long career teaching dance, I really value his training and dedication.
One of my ballet students, (who is now dancing professionally at Disneyland,) told me that her college teachers compliment her on her self discipline. They can tell she studied ballet. It's so much easier for the teachers to teach if the students are quiet, respectful, interested, and prepared for class. I believe it's all very connected.
I agree about the letter. My parents NEVER would have sent a nasty letter to a teacher. I remember my mom making homemade chocolate and caramel sauce for them at Christmas. I loved and worshipped my teachers! Am glad now that my mother followed the teacher's directions, and did things neatly, carefully, and in advance. We wanted to make things easier for the teacher.
It saddens me to hear teachers spending their own money on school supplies. Hopefully children will be taught at home to take care of their things. I think the waste could be trimmed.
My little brother had a very kind Kindergarten teacher gowing up. He would stay after class to "help" her because he just loved her presence. She died of cancer later in the year. He kept her photo, (my mom had it enlarged and framed,) on his dresser until he left home. Our mother was alcoholic and doped up on valium and codeine. This teacher really was a healing and loving force in his life.
The father of a friend of ours passed away recently. He taught English lit in high school and had a reputation for being a teacher who would not let you coast. He was the kind of teacher of whom students would say, "You got Mr. Smith for English? Oh, wow..." Yet the number of remembrances on the funeral-home Web site, from so many students, from so many years, all across the country, was so touching.
I don't know how many times students contacted Mr. Smith while he was alive to tell him how much his teaching meant to them. But it makes me want to track down some of my most influential grade-school teachers and let them know (if it's not already too late).
awakenedsoul
8-25-12, 4:00pm
That's a great thing to do, Steve. I just had two students contact me this week asking if they could come back to class. One of them is 61, and she said that she really missed the professionalism and discipline. The other girl was in her early twenties, and struggled with being on time. I didn't let her in class once because she was more than ten min. late. (My cut off for safety.) I didn't think she'd return.
Many of my adult yoga students are or were school teachers. One woman told me that all the school teachers had heard about me and were so glad that I was giving consequences. She said that they weren't allowed to in the schools, because the parents would pull the kids out and switch to another school. The principal didn't want to lose the money.
Wildflower
8-25-12, 4:57pm
I thought that note to the teacher was good in that it, hopefully, made the teacher aware of all the excess and waste.
And this....
Seriously???
I don't understand, Wildflower. :confused:
Cathy:
I am a teacher. Did you read my earlier posts? I think the point is that the teacher already knows about the waste. The teacher is a teacher, not your child's mother. And she certainly isn't mother to 25 kids at once.
By the time those 25 kids get to her room they should have already been taught by their mothers not to lose their pencils and to put the cap back on the dry erase markers because they are too expensive to waste. Some kids have. I'm sure you'd prefer that your kid's teacher teach your kid academics (primarily) not spend her time teaching values (i.e., conservation.)
Many kids coming into these classrooms don't know not to waste or to take care of things they use even if they aren't (or even if they are) their own possessions. Teachers ask for what they need.
Please, people. Trust your teachers unless they give you a reason not to. They really care and are doing their best for your child which really is a thankless task. And they don't need 25+ sets of parents telling them how to do their jobs.
I think you and Wildflower are because you're aware of this aspect of things (excessive consumption). I don't think ALL teachers are aware of it, or ever even question it.
When my kids were in school, I was overwhelmed with all the excess stuff they brought home. In our school district, the administration would listen to the teachers and make attempts to change things. But I don't think they got much feedback from the teachers.
I'm sure there are LOTS of great/self-sacrificing teachers out there. I just don't think there's anything wrong with bringing up environmental issues. I'm sorry if this really touched on a nerve with you. But I still think its a good idea to nicely make one's feelings about the environment, etc., known to the teachers, when you don't really see it happening in their classroom/school.
I know its really hard when so many kids these days come from homes that don't teach them anything. In my kids' high school, they tried to have recycling bins around, but they always filled up with trash, so they stopped doing it. I'm afraid I would have been much more strict about it, had I been involved......but it wasn't that important to the teachers/principal.
And I always DID trust my kids' teachers, until I had a reason not to. But if you're getting "orders" from them, then they are the ones to first approach.
Wildflower
8-25-12, 7:08pm
I don't understand, Wildflower. :confused:
Did you read my earlier post? I really don't want to repeat myself. >8)
I will add to that though that the school that my DD teaches at is very "green". They try to recycle everything. They are totally environmentally conscious, as most schools are these days. I think it's rude and ignorant also to send such a note to a teacher implying that she makes any decisions at all concerning school supplies, etc. It is all in the hands of the administration. Teachers are basically powerless these days concerning most everything, including the curriculum, but that's a whole other subject....
And assuming that any teacher these days is ignorant about being "green" is well, just ignorant!
I'm sorry, CathyA, this subject is one that just gets my dander up. Such judgemental posts are just hurtful. Some of you need to go spend a month or so daily in a classroom and then maybe you will get it....
And I hope you read my earlier (long) post. Thanks. :)
awakenedsoul
8-25-12, 8:00pm
This thread has been great for me to read. I volunteered in our local elementary school garden in March, and I was apalled at what I saw! It is SO DIFFERENT in schools now. This is a very low income group of students. They were out of control. It was overcrowded, and the principal scheduled the planting during the hottest part of the day. (We live in the desert.) Three classes were crammed together. One class would have been comfortable. The children were making sexual jokes as I explained how to plant the seedlings. "You put it in the hole..." One boy complained, "This isn't fun." I could tell the teachers were angry and just wanted to get it over with and go back inside. The principal started overscheduling me and becoming very controlling. She's a workaholic. When I went to water in the morning, the boys were on the playground, pressing their bodies up against each other and stroking each others faces. This is in elementary school! I called the principal and told her. She was in denial. I quit volunteering there and now I'm at the library. One of the boys kicked another so hard he couldn't talk. I took them both to the office. The receptionist asked in a sweet voice, "Was it an accident?" "Yes." (It wasn't.) I was so angry. I laid into that boy and told him I knew that it wasn't an accident. The thing is, he wanted to hang around me. He was screaming for boundaries and discipline. These kids are not getting it at home.
Ungrounded people are very destructive. There were some really sweet children at that school, but on the whole, it was a disaster. I corrected a child when we were planting, because he kicked ME as I walked by him. I made him look at me, and I didn't give him a turn because he wouldn't stop. I could tell everyone was shocked at my methods. The teacher's approach was to scream at all the kids:"If you don't behave, you're all going back to class." I'm not saying this to bash the teacher. I think to avoid complaints, some don't discipline the individual anymore.
Wildflower, I think you're making alot of assumptions about teachers everywhere, and how green they all are. Its just not necessarily the reality everywhere.
Wildflower
8-26-12, 3:22am
Wildflower, I think you're making alot of assumptions about teachers everywhere, and how green they all are. Its just not necessarily the reality everywhere.
Well no, actually I think it is you that is making the assumptions - thinking that any teacher would need a note regarding excess or waste. And again, if someone still felt the need to send such a note they need to send it to the school administration. Being environmentally conscious is being taught in the schools these days. The grade school and high school right near my home all promote it, plus all the school districts in the metro area. That is actually where I take all of my stuff to be recycled, and we are in hicksville Missouri, and my DD teaches in Arkansas. It's not like we live in the most enlightened areas. The kids are also being taught how to eat more healthy as well, which is a very good thing, since most don't learn it at home anymore...
Being green is very much a part of the curriculum these days. I doubt there is a teacher out there that is not aware of it.... My DD is the most green person I know, even moreso than I, and she originally learned about it at her college, again in hicksville, back in the mid90's. Which really isn't a comment on her, but the fact that that long ago they were teaching all students, not just the education majors about it.... they had all of the students recycling way back then before it was a buzz word. :~)
I think we need to agree to disagree. I'm talking about our school district..........and it is what it is.........and that's not environmentally aware of much. So you really can't say I'm making assumptions about something I'm actually living in. I think its great if the rest of the U.S. schools are so progressive. Our area is not. One of the largest school districts in the country is in a city near here, and they have trouble just getting the kids to go to school and even graduate. When my kids were in school 4-6 years ago, I would say 99.9% of the kids didn't even have the environment on their mind at all, and nothing was mentioned by any of their teachers. Its sad, but true. So sending a note similar to the one we're arguing about was a very reasonable thing to do.
And I might also mention that very little has been said to them in college either. :(
Aqua Blue
8-26-12, 10:41am
I guess I didn't see the letter as an insult to the teacher, but rather the parent just stating where they are coming from. One could just as easily reply to the parent with, "I so agree with you, do you have some ideas about how we could impliment this in the class rooom....." Instead of being offended. If 20/30 parents sent a similar letter then maybe progress could be made to change the system.
Wildflower
8-26-12, 4:41pm
I guess I didn't see the letter as an insult to the teacher, but rather the parent just stating where they are coming from. One could just as easily reply to the parent with, "I so agree with you, do you have some ideas about how we could impliment this in the class rooom....." Instead of being offended. If 20/30 parents sent a similar letter then maybe progress could be made to change the system.
But again, Aqua Blue, it is pointless to send that note to the teacher anyway because school supplies lists are compiled by the administration/school board these days. Go to the top if you want to try and change anything. Teachers are powerless these days....
And again, the excess of school supplies is to cover those that didn't or couldn't bring enough. Not fair, I know, but also not fair that a teacher often has to use their own money to buy school supplies because they don't have enough to make it through the school year....
Wildflower
8-26-12, 4:59pm
I think we need to agree to disagree. I'm talking about our school district..........and it is what it is.........and that's not environmentally aware of much. So you really can't say I'm making assumptions about something I'm actually living in. I think its great if the rest of the U.S. schools are so progressive. Our area is not. One of the largest school districts in the country is in a city near here, and they have trouble just getting the kids to go to school and even graduate. When my kids were in school 4-6 years ago, I would say 99.9% of the kids didn't even have the environment on their mind at all, and nothing was mentioned by any of their teachers. Its sad, but true. So sending a note similar to the one we're arguing about was a very reasonable thing to do.
And I might also mention that very little has been said to them in college either. :(
I agree that we need to agree to disagree. ;)
I think it is possible that there may have been some changes in your school district as far as being environmentally concious in the past few years since your kids have been out of school... I know it has only recently been implemented in our school district in probably the last 3-4 years. But then again, maybe not. It has been really promoted since Obama took office, along with the healthier eating, so possibly that is going on in your school district now too. I think it has been pushed to be part of all public schools curriculum, but I could be wrong about that. Lord knows we are not progressive here. This is a poorer area where many folks are just trying to keep food on the table and pay their bills. I don't think many are too concerned about the environment, because they have bigger things to worry about. It is pretty much the same in the school district my DD teaches in, which is a very poor state overall.
CathyA, I know that you and I both care very much about the environment, so let's just hope on hope that there is a big change going on in all of the schools in our great country these days. I can't imagine any college these days not promoting it. That is just sad...
I guess I didn't see the letter as an insult to the teacher, but rather the parent just stating where they are coming from. One could just as easily reply to the parent with, "I so agree with you, do you have some ideas about how we could impliment this in the class rooom....." Instead of being offended. If 20/30 parents sent a similar letter then maybe progress could be made to change the system.
Here's the parent just stating where they are coming from:
"Dear Teacher,
We substituted green products wherever possible since that's what we prefer to use. Hope that's ok"
Sincerely,
a parent
See the brevity? Expecting a teacher to read a preachy long screed is, well, consistent with greenie culture, in my experience.
And requiring parents to buy "green" products would result in a whole other revolution since they can be more expensive than Brawny paper towels etc.
awakenedsoul
8-26-12, 9:01pm
Here's the parent just stating where they are coming from:
"Dear Teacher,
We substituted green products wherever possible since that's what we prefer to use. Hope that's ok"
Sincerely,
a parent
See the brevity? Expecting a teacher to read a preachy long screed is, well, consistent with greenie culture, in my experience.
And requiring parents to buy "green" products would result in a whole other revolution since they can be more expensive than Brawny paper towels etc.
I like your version. It sounds considerate and respectful. I live what most people probably consider a very green life, but I don't talk about it much. I have way too much weeding to do! The main reason I do it is because it saves me money...(about 10 grand a year.) Sometimes people will stop me in the grocery store and say, "I see you riding your bike everywhere." Or, "I saw you wheeling that wheelbarrow of manure down the street..." Then they'll usually confide to me that they want to get their bike fixed, or that they want to grow some food.
chrisgermany
9-7-12, 5:44am
I"A child's growth is dependent on being clean".
My Father in law, who was a farmer, used to say:" Little pigs must be clean, kids must be dirty. Then they are ok. "
suburbansparrow
9-7-12, 4:47pm
The foregoing conversation simply boggles my mind. I am a former high school art specialist, mind you having taught in the heyday of well funded public education. Each of my students was required to provide $10 as a general supply fee. As many of you can imagine, that amount per student adds up to a handsome sum with which to buy supplies, sensible ones, not dry-erase markers or felt pens. Part of my job then was to teach the kids how to utilize supplies provides, marshal and care for them, and even sometimes analyze what went into the creation of some of their supplies. That kind of information, shared with students, helps them realize and appreciate the complex means by which the tools they use regularly come to be there for their employment and enjoyment. For example -we made ink from black walnut casings, used charcoal kids gathered from their fireplaces at home, made rudimentary brushes, made paper. These processes were messy, sometimes smelly, fun to tinker with, and they yielded some fine resulting work. For several years, I took the toughest boys in the principal's truck to a farmer's ditch and we mined clay, which we put into garbage cans and transported back to school. The principal substituted for the rest of the class while some of us went clay gathering. Once we had the clay back at school, we spread it around the perimeter of the art room to dry, and then in subsequent periods the kids ground dry clay clods with rocks, extracted shells and organic matter left over. We slaked the clay in water, turned the slaked clay onto plaster batts which the kids had themselves prepared ahead of time, and as a class wedged and bagged pliable clay for the class to use during the next three months. At no time did any student chuck clay around the room, or act carelessly to leave bagged clay open to dry. Because they had invested so much effort in making their own usable material, they were most respectful of it, and that respect was also generalized to other materials, not clay-related, used during the rest of the year.
It is my experience that people who have a hand in producing goods, not merely consuming them without thought as to their origins, tend to be more thoughtful, caring and conservative in their regard for material goods used for their benefit.
Rant over, and out.
What about watching adults scream their heads off on Ellen or Oprah (when she had a live audience) when they give away free things.
...It is my experience that people who have a hand in producing goods, not merely consuming them without thought as to their origins, tend to be more thoughtful, caring and conservative in their regard for material goods used for their benefit.
Rant over, and out.
Yep. that's human nature, some skin in the game causes focused interest in protecting the resource whatever that may be.
I like your approach, suburbansparrow. The only skin I have in the public school game is (high) property taxes, but the idea that wasting hundreds of dollars on dry-erase marker that fail and pencils that are lost by the dozens is just business as usual, is an eye-opener to me. Why can't students write on a computer hooked up to a big screen? Or even the old chalk board? (Don't tell me: dust allergies. Back to why kids should play in the dirt.) Teaching responsible behavior? Unheard of, apparently.
Chrisgermany, your FIL said it well.
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