View Full Version : Vegetarians: What's going on here?
Today on the way home a guy in a pick-up truck was ahead of me. He had a (P)eople (E)ating (T)asty (A)nimals sticker on his back window.
I don't get it. To me, it comes across as so confrontational and so hostile and I don't understand why people decide to make such a public and aggressive affront to any vegetarian who happens to see the back of their vehicle EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY DRIVE.
Why? Are they angry? Did some aggressive vegetarian get in their face some time in the past? If so, why do they feel they have to confront every vegetarian because of a negative exchange in the past.
I honestly don't understand this mentality.
I am amazed how people react when I tell people I am vegetarian -- for some meat eaters they just can't wrap their head around that. Then there are those who think their masculinity is directly tied to grilling their meat... So absurd.
I personally like the bumper sticker, "VEGETARIAN, An Indian word for a bad hunter!". I even had that on my pickup. People who knew me got a big kick out of that. Never been a hunter/camper - even though I come from a long line of hunters!
There are some "militant" vegetarian/vegans out there and they invite a negative responses from their holier than thou attitude. Its not my bag, so I just don't bother with them.
Food choices have become as charged as everything else is these days with rude comments and opinions. As an example, I have a niece who blatantly gloats over butchering and eating all types of animals and their parts raised on her farmette. She makes fun of vegans. It is offensive to me but I wouldn't think of commenting like that as I believe we all get to choose how we wish to eat. I don't know why as a society we have become so uncivil towards each other.
I personally like the bumper sticker, "VEGETARIAN, An Indian word for a bad hunter!". I even had that on my pickup.
People who knew me got a big kick out of that. Never been a hunter/camper - even though I come from a long line
of hunters!
My son gave my vegetarian daughter a keychain that read "If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did He make them out of meat?"
I think a lot of people are very, very protective and almost territorial about their food choices. Maybe we're hard-wired that way. I've had that same kind of reaction from people when I would tell them I'm vegetarian: From confusion, to hostility, to condescension. I always hated when people asked me why I was vegetarian if I were sitting there eating with them--I'd watch them cutting into their steaks while they'd ask the question, almost baiting me to judge that act. I think some "omnivore hostility" is based on an assumption or prejudice that vegetarians are trying to claim some kind of moral high ground and that ignites a very defensive reaction. And it's true that the hostility cuts both ways--omnivore assumptions about vegetarian holier-than-thou attitudes are not entirely baseless.
I've found that many people who are that defensive are ambivalent about their own meat-eating. But the thing is, we have so much coded into our pleasure centers when it comes to eating--we bring our culture, our memories, our relationships, our ethics, our senses, and so much more into our eating choices.
There are aggressive true believers on every side of every issue. Vegans have their share. Just ask Lierre Keith, an ex-vegan who dared to write a book critical of vegan diets and was subsequently attacked by three assailants wielding cream pies heavily laced with cayenne as she spoke at a counterculture event. (The assault can be viewed on YouTube.)
I've been an omnivore, a lacto-ovo vegetarian, and (briefly) a vegan. At this point, I lean paleo, but I wouldn't browbeat another adult about their choices, which presumably work for them--at least for the moment.
I'm not a sociologist. But I honestly believe that many people lash out in such a relatively anonymous fashion out of insecurity. A bumper sticker like that offers a launching point for opinions without the discomfort of having to own up to them one-on-one. I'm guessing most people who say something like that cannot successfully and logically defend why they eat meat (or don't). Such aggression also offers a mask to the individual who may be uncomfortable with his/her level of education/standing in the community/job/physical attributes/poverty. They can look like they're large and in charge even if they're paddling like mad below the surface of the water.
ApatheticNoMore
9-14-12, 8:00pm
Today on the way home a guy in a pick-up truck was ahead of me. He had a (P)eople (E)ating (T)asty (A)nimals sticker on his back window.
Or they could have just thought it's funny. Ok it's not really funny enough to be a bumper sticker but .... oh what the hey, it's an old joke, but it's a little amusing.
I'm a vegetarian and I think it's funny. But I do work in a field where a twisted sense of humour is pretty much mandatory. And PETA is a pretty "out there" organization, IMO. Sometimes it seems more about doing crazy things and drawing attention to themselves rather than helping animals. I don't mind people poking fun at them. What to eat and animal rights are such broad spectrum ideas - I don't think any one opinion is right.
On a related humorous note, a couple years ago a co-worker of mine was thinking about getting a personalized license plate for her avid hunter husband. I suggested I8ADEER and I8BAMBI. We both thought it was hilarious and she reminded me about it just recently. Can you imagine the hate he would have gotten? I'm sure some people think that's horrific but I like to cause trouble and think that hunting is less cruel than factory farming, so highly respect their choices of the type of animals they eat. And people in the US and Canada seem so strange about what animals are acceptable and what aren't. Cute little baby cows and sheep are ok? Horses are not? I think cattle and poultry are super cute, too. Bugs aren't really cute, but they aren't appropriate food. But deer are all like Bambi, so that's not right. I just laugh at the whole thing and do what works for me.
I think bugs are gorgeous. There's very little in nature I don't find beautiful.
I was a vegetarian for years and never had anyone question or hassle me. I tried to return the favor.
Pinkytoe: "Uncivil" is another good word for this.
Catherine: I haven't had a lot of open confrontation like your example--except from family members. But you know how family often feels like boundaries don't apply to them.
Jane: Lierre Keith has every right to stop being a vegan and every right to voice her opinions on veganism. However, just because she has the right doesn't mean that advancing the idea that there is something inherently wrong with veganism is the ethical, diplomatic or socially polite thing to do. When I hear examples such as this, I wonder who people like Lierre are trying to convince, the public or themselves. That said, it is absolutely inexcusable that someone would use physical violence against her because they didn't agree with what she was espousing. But I don't think the two distinctly different acts should be conflated or one used to justify or condemn the other.
Apathetic and Kestra: I don't think "People Eating Tasty Animals" is cute or clever humor. I think it's stale and tired. Omnivores who want to be humorous by making a jibe at vegetarians (yes, even vegetarians can laugh at themselves, provided the joke is funny) should at least think up something new.
I think a lot of people feel attacked and think their lifestyle is being critically judged whenever someone thinks or does things differently than they do. And they lash out in turn. Actually I lived with someone like that.
One thing I always think is interesting is how many people generalize that they are "meat" eaters - when in actuality there's only a very small number of species they'll eat. And many will find the idea of eating a lot of the species off their list as repugnant.
Pinkytoe: "Uncivil" is another good word for this.
Catherine: I haven't had a lot of open confrontation like your example--except from family members. But you know how family often feels like boundaries don't apply to them.
Jane: Lierre Keith has every right to stop being a vegan and every right to voice her opinions on veganism. However, just because she has the right doesn't mean that advancing the idea that there is something inherently wrong with veganism is the ethical, diplomatic or socially polite thing to do. When I hear examples such as this, I wonder who people like Lierre are trying to convince, the public or themselves. That said, it is absolutely inexcusable that someone would use physical violence against her because they didn't agree with what she was espousing. But I don't think the two distinctly different acts should be conflated or one used to justify or condemn the other.
....
Keith believes she severely compromised her own health following a strict vegan diet for years, so it doesn't surprise me that she would want to make others aware of her experience. She's also a staunch supporter or sustainable agriculture. Why anyone would be angry with her for sharing her experience and research is a mystery to me, and the over-the-top responses to her book give credence to the idea that veganism is more a religious cult than just another way to eat.
Keith believes she severely compromised her own health following a strict vegan diet for years, so it doesn't surprise me that she would want to make others aware of her experience. She's also a staunch supporter or sustainable agriculture. Why anyone would be angry with her for sharing her experience and research is a mystery to me, and the over-the-top responses to her book give credence to the idea that veganism is more a religious cult than just another way to eat.
I think if you had some discussions with many vegans you would find that they practice a vegan lifestyle for a variety of reasons. The reason I have heard most often cited is ethical. Ethical vegans believe that factory farming and slaughtering animals for human consumption is ethically wrong. Often these ethical vegans are motivated by an adoption of the ethic of ahimsa in their own lives. So, of course, they are very concerned when former vegans frighten prospective (or current) vegans that their health may be compromised if they continue to engage in veganism. Even if those vegans don't actively promote veganism to others, because they are vegan for the benefit other animals, they don't want someone actively working against "the cause."
I am not familiar with Keith's work or her individual experience with veganism but I have done a significant amount of reading about the health benefits of the diet as well as possible health compromises. I am utterly convinced by the joint statement of the American Dietetic Association and the Association of Dieticians of Canada "that properly planned vegan diets were nutritionally adequate for all stages of life." Some ethical vegans are gravely concerned that the anecdotal experience of some former vegans could adversely impact the likelihood that others would eschew a vegan diet under the false belief that veganism would have a negative impact on their health.
I don't think that ethical vegans see their belief system as part of a religious cult but do see it as a significant marker of their philosophical belief system.
I believe that most ethical vegans would state that using violence against people like Keith is also contrary to the idea of ahimsa and would renounce it.
A vegan diet wasn't nutritionally adequate for my health, and I've learned to pay very little attention to dietitians, but I'm all for adults eating whatever they choose.
A vegan diet wasn't nutritionally adequate for my health, and I've learned to pay very little attention to dietitians, but I'm all for adults eating whatever they choose.
I wasn't trying to argue for or against veganism or vegetarianism in my reply. Just trying to explain the "mystery" you mentioned from the ethical veganism point of view and reassure you that most ethical vegans are not religious cult members which I think is a commonly applied and unfair indictment.
Human nutrition is a scientific discipline and I am a big fan of science--usually going in the direction the preponderance of evidence points.
As a vegan, I tried to convince some members of PETA that they are hurting the cause and I think the bumper sticker is a kind of political firing back. I have no problem laughing at even the most grotesque humor but the bumper sticker is kind of a dud. I've also noticed that people are influenced more by a quiet consistentcy, not to mention the appearance of good health.
SteveinMN
9-15-12, 11:37am
I've also noticed that people are influenced more by a quiet consistentcy, not to mention the appearance of good health.
I'm not a great fan of organized religion (though I believe very much in the spiritual) because so many of the "true believers" (of all faiths) tend to bludgeon the non-believers into their point of view with noise and threats (physical and emotional). I'm far more attracted to the point of view of someone who is quietly walking whatever talk they believe in.
I think "ethical vegan" is redundant. Whether one eats that way to better their health, save animals from torture and death or save the Earth from incredible depletion of resources including grain that could be fed to the starving, it is the essence of ethics in action.
Among recent vegan coverts are Bill Clinton and Mike Tyson.
There is a wealth of information building to demonstrate the benefits of a plant based diet. For example, it was not known that heart disease could be reversed until Caldwell Essysten began using a vegan diet without oil to patients whose disease was so bad they could not have anymore surgery.
A vegan doesn't eat honey or wear leather as well as not eating animal products. Others just eat a vegan diet for health reasons. I really dislike people who feel they need to push their diet and food ideas on others non-stop either on real life or on forums. I eat a mostly vegan diet but I don't talk about it unless asked, even then I won't say much unless the person is truly interested.
Gardenarian
9-17-12, 4:58pm
In our family, we have a rule that it is impolite to comment on other people's food choices - what they eat, how much they eat, where they get it, whatever. This came up when dd was a toddler and we were often at potlucks. What other people eat is not my business. While I'm a vegetarian, I can see that there is value to a lot of people doing the Primal Diet. Whatever.
Which doesn't mean I won't act politically for better food, better farming, better soil.
More evidence of "us vs them" thinking which accomplishes little that is positive whether humorous or not.
We are all on this world together and when crises strike, we all pull together, usually.
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