Plumber overcharged me

[awakenedsoul]

As some of you know, I've been doing some remodeling in my bathroom. I initially went to Home Depot and they asked me how much I could afford. (I'm having new tile put in the shower.) I told them my budget was $3,000. The salesman matched that with a written estimate, then sent over the contractor. He sent me a new estimate for $10,000. or more! I complained about the discrepancy and got my $100. deposit back. I told my plumber the story and he said that he could help me. He works on old houses and has done excellent work for me the past 15 years. He thought that removing the old fiberglass sides on the shower/tub kit would be a huge job. He said he'd probably have to sand the wood and bleach it. He was sure there would be mold, water damage, and rotting wood. I told him I thought the walls were pretty flimsy and easy to remove. Anyway, that morning he told me it would probably cost $800.00 Then he said, "$1000.00 tops." He arrived at 10:00 a.m. He was done at noon. It was easy and there was no mold. The back wood was clean and dry. He charged me $600.00. He didn't have to buy any materials, and we used my trash can for the disposal.

I paid him, but decided to have the tile company finish the job. (Put the fixtures back on.) They quoted me $75.00. My plumber said he would charge $100.00. Then he changed his mind and said, "125.00, because I have to grout the shower head." Then he told me to go to the hardware store and buy him some longer screws. I sent him an email and said I wasn't comfortable having him finish the work. I feel like I paid him almost $300.00 an hour. I am fine paying the going rate and a travel fee, but this seems like way too much. I told him that he does excellent work, is punctual and conscienious, but that his pricing is erratic. His prices have always been high, but his work never fails. What do you think? I really felt ripped off. In the past year he's become argumentive and talks at me. He doesn't listen anymore. His wife is now on disability, and they don't have enough money without her salary.

[SteveinMN]

There are two ways to bill work: time & materials or a bid price. Bid prices typically include a kind of a surcharge because the tradesperson has to make sure (s)he is compensated sufficiently if the job turns out to be far more complicated than expected. Your plumber expected to find a real mess behind the shower enclosure, and gave you a job price that reflected that. You agreed to it. If it did take him all of two hours, that is, as you computed, $300 an hour. If the job had taken maybe 10 hours over two days, however, to allow for treating and repairing wood, that would have been just $60 an hour -- not very much for a licensed plumber. In addition, your plumber had to estimate how long the job would take, and it is unlikely that he'd just be able to move on to another job because yours took far less time than estimated. In a sense, the extra time was idle for him, so pricing may have reflected that, too.

Maybe the better decision this time would have been to go time & materials, with a negotiated maximum (though that might have left the job undone). An alternative would have been to discuss with him when it was time to put the fixtures back on, "Hey, I know cleaning up behind the walls took a lot less time than you'd planned, so you did okay on that job. Maybe because of that I could get a break on the price of putting the fixtures back on?"

I understand your frustration. I've never made (or been billed out at) $300 an hour. But a plumber who does good work and prices fairly is not that easy to find. On the other hand, sometimes work relationships go south, and if he's no longer working to your expectations, then maybe it is time to try a new plumber.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks for the input, Steve. I've been reading a lot of stories like mine on line. It really bothers me, so I'll just have the tile company guys finish the job. My plumber works very steadily, and usually will come the same day. He took a call while he was here. He talked outside on the phone. The thing that gets to me is that he was wrong about the condition of the shower. I told him it was installed in 1998. I've been the only one using it. He's very talented and qualified, but I get the feeling that he's developed a drug or alcohol problem. I haven't heard back from him, and the check has been cashed. An expensive lesson. I've recommended him to two friends. I don't know that I would anymore, though. I don't trust him after this. It was an inflated estimate.

I told him on the phone that I'm at the top of my field, and I charge $75.00 an hour for a private lesson. When I told him I was going to have the tile company do the fixtures, he sounded really hurt. But, I just can't believe he feels it's okay to charge me even more money. I feel like he should give me a partial refund check and do the rest of the work for free. (That's what I would do if the situation were reversed.) Live and learn. At least I'm still within my overall budget on the job as a whole.

[Mer05]

Wow, what an awkward situation! I am in no way an expert. The hourly rate you paid for the first job does seem like a lot for simple demolition work - but on the other hand, you paid a premium for using someone who could handle complications. Steve's comments on the two possible pricing structures match my experience - it's lousy to have picked the wrong one, in hindsight!

That said, his pricing changing on the second job would certainly cause me to start wondering what was up. Grout is a pretty basic thing, in bathtubs. It sounds like things have gotten emotional on both sides - he's hurt you're going with the lower bid, you're upset he didn't give you a better deal. If you still want to work with him, maybe get other bids for the job, or decide before talking to him what you should pay, so you're confident that you're paying a fair price. I'd look for a new plumber just to avoid the weirdness, but I'm a big fan of not-awkward.

[awakenedsoul]

Thanks Mer05. He didn't give me a choice between a flat fee and an hourly rate. When I asked him to write down what he wanted me to tell the tile company, he said, "Oh no," and refused. So, I wrote down his concerns and explained them to the tile co. owner. They both said the exact same thing when they saw the shower. It needs cement mold free boards, reinforcement on the back wall, and the shower head is attached too loosely.

He changes his pricing a lot. He jumps around. I've realized that he always seems to be at least 40% higher than the going rate. I've definitely learned a lot. He told me he thought the entire job should cost around $5,000. (Then he changed his mind and said $6,000.) I'm having it done for $2,800.

He told me one time, "I've got to get off these pain pills." I think he's developed an addiction and I know how addicts are with money. Too bad. His work is exceptional.

[awakenedsoul]

Update: My plumber just called me. He said, "I got your message, and I just called to let you know. Thanks for telling me so I could rearrange my schedule." (He had me written in for Wed. morning, first slot.) I answered, "You're welcome," and got off the phone quickly. I could tell from his voice that he feels kind of guilty. I have a feeling the money is already spent.

[iris lily]

DH would be happy to charge every job for just time and materials, but most (new) customers don't like that if they don't know him and besides, the average person needs a estimate of how much the job will be.

All of DH's regular customers now hire him on a "time and materials" basis. They know he's a fast worker and he's pretty competent and seldom does he screw something up only to have to re-do it. Right now he's working on a major project, a gut rehab, where he is one of several contractors. He's the finisher guy: the carpenter and the painter. The owners keep changing their minds and he is having to re-do stuff and he complains about it. But these owners hire him all the time to do lots of work on their various properties and they pay him on a time and materials basis, so it's all fine, he's being paid adequately. Sometimes he just likes to bitch and moan.

[awakenedsoul]

This guy is fast, too. That's why I like hiring the old timers. He just called back and left a voice message. He offered to do the rest of the job for free. He said he still feels that the price was right. (Which blows my mind.) He said that he wished I would have called him and talked about it instead of sending him an email, and that he doesn't want to lose me as a customer.

The whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth. If I ever do use him again, I will opt for the hourly. My gut tells me that he's got addiction problems, and that we would continue to have conflict. I'll see how the tile guys do. I plan to repipe in the next year or two, anyway. I used to have this same problem with mechanics. That's one of the reasons I ride my bike so much!

[San Onofre Guy]

I have found that paying for quality work is worth it in the long run. If he does quality work and messed up on the charge this one time, have a discussion with him....in person. If you are planning to repipe in a few years and he does quality work, hire him and pay a living wage for the work. In the end it is better paying a little more for quality work for things like plumbing and electrical.

[awakenedsoul]

He doesn't do repipes. When I calculate it, I think he's easily making a living wage. He's seemed overpriced to me for the past few years. His wife is from Chile and she used to work as a personal chef making $75,000. a year. Once the economy tanked, she went on disability. I'm single and I live on about $20,000. a year. I've got to stay in budget. I think he's got a drug problem, and I can't be around that.

The tile company has very fair prices. Overtime is $65.00 an hour, and there are two guys doing the work. They are grounded, balanced, neat, and have great attention to detail. I'll ask the owner if he knows a good company to repipe. I only have one bathroom. The pipes are outside, and it's one story. Shouldn't be very difficult.

[KevinOKane]

A mate also experienced the same thing when he was living in Melbourne. Although the contractor was an experienced water and gas plumber, he charged a price that was known to be the above the market. Good thing that my mate is knowledgeable when it comes to this and was able to negotiate a better price. He eventually set up his own plumbing services.