Black Thanksgiving, not Black Friday: how to fight back [Archive]

RosieTR

11-16-12, 11:05pm

I'm horrified at the sale-creep that has occurred over the last few years concerning Black Friday. First it was 6am, then 3 and 4 am, then midnight, now it's Thanksgiving at like 8 or 9pm. People do not need to be shopping at this time, and there should be at least a few holidays that employees can reliably count on to not have to work. Especially Thanksgiving in the United States, since it, along with Independence Day, are the only major holidays that folks in the US can all be proud of. Memorial Day and Labor Day have become shopping days. Now retailers are really pushing to do it to Thanksgiving. Bad enough they have pushed the Christmas wares into stores right after Halloween and sometimes earlier, but in my opinion the line should be drawn at least at Thanksgiving Day. For crying out loud! Anyway, here are some websites to contact corporate with your gripes:

Kohls: http://www.kohlscorporation.com/customer_service/email/default.asp

Target: https://www-secure.target.com/HelpFormLinkPageView?catalogId=10051&langId=-1&storeId=10151&krypto=YlViooHjPKGi%2BMFLQz43%2BCt2dE3vGVtI8qWb2R1 vv80k1zXpHe66To9TPyifaRIlOLjQANPbwUun%0AIE40yYAQ2X vAZ64MFO8MXjUvZrWhlFKJs5l4Zj%2F6wK5SABx%2BCnuHkiAS Lc3ANHPB0b7PGYEHNSPh%0Ao7IsyeQkPWRrnZoyo3eC4Bc%2FD 97fid98HXsNdsoV91ljM%2F2BhHpB6qsAjelyhe3O5XxCtjmJu d8x%0AXmZ5M8cCHLg31tG3d2sFIaEyQG%2F24wJWiSlTyu7OgX bR3Lnb%2FhkSBZ%2BVAC2w47PwPMnxkWcEQe6z%0AeqsxVkHeO oZIe9Av9KAsacQUeumpi053j1%2FiZbhaYfVq0n0wQoQ7Zhsqm etrXurea5rLH9G9VLFE%0A4ldn%2BMjHn6vAd7NW%2BgiPj4Yh LA%3D%3D&ddkey=http%3AHelpFormLinkPageView

Walmart: https://corporate.walmart.com/contact-us/store-corporate-feedback#2

I just wrote a short paragraph explaining that Thanksgiving should be for employees to spend with their families, and how it's unAmerican to cheapen our holiday with nothing but shopping. Write what you wish.

And if you don't feel comfortable giving out your info (I noticed Walmart required the most-if they call me I will give them an earful!) there are petitions. Here is one from change.org
http://www.change.org/petitions/target-take-the-high-road-and-save-thanksgiving

Feel free to copy and paste if you like and post on Facebook or email to friends and family or whatever. If you have corporate websites of other big box stores opening specifically for Thanksgiving, please post here too!

catherine

11-17-12, 7:35am

My MIL, who worked as a union administrator for the retail workers union at Macy's, always predicted that eventually Macy's would be open on Thanksgiving and Christmas. She died two years ago, and her predictions have pretty much come true...

So I was so upset about it last year that I went on the Macy RWDSU Union site and FBd one of her old friends complaining. Her response was that the union didn't mind the stores opening because the employees got triple pay and they could choose to work or not.

So, someone might feel, Hey, I'll work a few hours on Thanksgiving and that will help me knock of a chunk of my Christmas budget. Someone else may choose not to.

However, the collateral damage of this way of thinking is that it beckons all the non-workers, the consumers, out of their homes on Thanksgiving--with a sense of fear that if they don't move then, they'll lose out on some great deal.

Argghhh.. Well, you'll NEVER find me out there on Black Thursday OR Black Friday.

Miss Cellane

11-17-12, 8:02am

A young woman I know who works retail has to be at the store at 8 pm Thanksgiving night in order to prep the store for a 9 pm opening. The store will stay open until 10 pm on Friday. She'll work an 8 hour shift overnight, go home, try to get some sleep in the middle of the day, and be back at 3 pm to work until closing. The mall the store is in wanted all the stores to open at 8 pm, but her manager refused to do that. I don't know if she is getting overtime or not, but she had no choice about working--well, she could have chosen not to work and thereby lost her job. The company that owns the store (it's a chain clothing store) is providing $70 worth of food to help the employees make it through, and her manager is putting together a pot-luck so they won't have to worry about meals. The thing she's dreading the most, though, is the extra amount of Christmas music that they will have to play in the store the entire time.

There is no need to go shopping on Thanksgiving. Many of the stores in my area are now open on New Year's Day, as well. Leaving Christmas as the only day retail workers can count on getting a vacation--and who knows how long that will last.

There are enough people who *have* to work on holidays--medical personnel, emergency workers, a pharmacist or two, hotel employees, etc. We don't need to go shopping every single day of the year.

catherine

11-17-12, 8:13am

Miss Cellane, I guess that's the difference between a union and non-union store. Unions may not be perfect but they do a good job of looking after the best interests of the employees

Miss Cellane

11-17-12, 8:48am

Of course, I think football players, their coaches and trainers, the camera crews and sports announcers, the venders and ticket takers and clean-up crews at stadiums should all get Thanksgiving off to spend with their families, as well. Union employees or not.

iris lily

11-17-12, 9:52am

sweetana3

11-17-12, 10:25am

While complaints are made about retail hours, how many people rely on 24 hour pharmacies and restaurants for Thanksgiving? Cooks, servers, managers all work and more hours than retail.

Note: I agree with no retail shopping. I cannot stand the huge numbers of noisy people crammed into stores, throwing merchandise around, etc.

Tammy

11-17-12, 10:33am

As a nurse, I have often chosen to work a holiday for a few reasons. It's good money. And I don't like big family things, depending on how big it is, how religious it is, and the amount of allergens present. My asthma flares with pet dander (even on clothing without pets being present), perfumes, scented candles, wood burning fireplaces, and second hand smoke. My soul cringed around organized religion. And the bigger the crowd, the bigger my chance of catching a virus. The common cold can turn easily into a 6 week ordeal with my 30 year history of asthma.

It's great to have an excuse when I need it. I can't count the times I've volunteered to work a holiday. And then told family "sorry ... I have to work." ;)

iris lily

11-17-12, 10:39am

ToomuchStuff

11-17-12, 10:44am

I learned a few years ago, that the movie theaters are open on Thanksgiving and it is a big movie day. I was shocked. I found this out because a coworker's family, used to always go to the movies, and he still did. I've worked all the holidays, as I used to work as security years ago (12 hour shifts on those days). I have law enforcement and medical people in my family. Those may be the typical days that families spend together, nationally, but the days are what you make of them (it doesn't have to be that day). I have worked on black Friday, for decades. It sucks, but so does dealing with all the government employee's that are off, and want to visit when they come in to your work. I still think that government offices should be open on BF, as I would have a MUCH shorter line to go pay the house taxes. (I hate waiting on that, because Christmas is a REAL stressful time for me and a holiday I hate)
I do have family members, who I think would rather spend the time shopping together, then eating.

Telling others what you think is fine (free speech), but telling others what to do, is no different then telling a Jew that they have to celebrate Christmas, or a few years ago, when black groups were calling business's and cussing them out (made the local news at least) for being open on Martin Luther King Jr's birthday (I was the one cussed at, at work).

JaneV2.0

11-17-12, 11:32am

I was employed by a 24-hour/365 enterprise, so I worked holidays for years and years before getting enough seniority to stay home. I missed a lot of Christmases, resentfully.

Thanksgiving is one of my least favorite holidays, so I'd be up for doing pretty much anything besides celebrating it. Save me some turkey soup.

Miss Cellane

11-17-12, 11:44am

Some of us are bored to tears by the Holiday Machine and expectations whipped up by it. And by that I don't mean what ya'll are talking about. Please consider that your definition of my Thanksgiving might not be what I want. So I must be home with my family on Thanksgiving? Really?

Since malls usually bore me I won't be there. Unless it is the antique mall then I'd like to go there if it were open.

In the end, choices are nice. On any given Thanksgiving or Christmas it is true, you won't find me at a mall, but I may or may not be at home enjoying that Norman Rockwell holiday with DH that you all envision. Sometimes we do that, sometimes we don't. I very much appreciate that movie theaters are open and have been forever on these holidays because that's when I can catch up with the fall/winter films. A simple dinner and a movie is what DH and I often do but I suppose you all would deny me that since no one needs to see a movie on these sacred days.

pffffle.

I don't really care what people do on Thanksgiving, or any other holiday. People should spend the day in the way that suits them best. Never meant to imply that everyone has to sit down to turkey with their family on Thanksgiving or the Thanksgiving police would be knocking on their door.

What I do care about is that retail workers in the US don't get holidays anymore. Maybe at union places, they get triple time and the chance to turn down working on a holiday, but many of them have no choice--the stores are open overnight on Thanksgiving night and if they want to keep their jobs, they have to show up.

Many other jobs, if you are required to work on a holiday, you get a comp day off, that you can take when it works best for you. Or you get extra pay. Or some other type of compensation for having to work on a holiday. Retail workers, who don't have easy jobs to begin with, frequently do not get this type of perk.

Years ago, when I was still a child, the stores were closed on Columbus Day and Memorial Day and Labor Day, as well as Christmas and Thanksgiving and New Years. Those days really were holidays for the majority of people. And we survived.

If you want to work on the holidays, fine. I'm glad you have the opportunity to do so. But if you'd like a day to spend as you please that nearly everyone else in the country has off, usually with pay, and you have to work whether you like it or not . . . well, I don't have a solution. I boycott retail stores on Black Friday and now Black Thanksgiving, but I don't think that does a darned bit of good.

domestic goddess

11-17-12, 6:39pm

If I don't work on Thanksgiving, I don't get paid. If I do work, there is no extra compensation for working on a holiday. Straight time. I will not be working this year, though, because my patient and her family will be out of town, so I am working Friday night to make up that time.
DD informed me today that she wants to go to her SO's brother's house for Thanksgiving, so I won't have to cook if she can wangle an invitation. Since I will be home alone, I plan a quiet evening, though I hope I have more than toast and popcorn, a la Charlie Brown.
Where I will NOT be is in a store or a mall. Even though I don't get much time to shop, I can certainly pass up the opportunity to be in the crowds and the noise. Those who would rather fight the crowds and put up with the noise can do so. My failure to shop on Thanksgiving and the day after is not really a boycott, just self-preservation.

bunnys

11-17-12, 6:40pm

I also think it's important to realize that some people just don't care about celebrating these holidays.

I frequently wonder if the only thing bad about not celebrating T-give or Christmas is that the entire world thinks you're totally pathetic for not celebrating when it's possible you just don't want to celebrate and really don't need others' pity or dismay.

JaneV2.0

11-17-12, 6:53pm

Thanksgiving would make sense to me in the context of a community all celebrating a successful harvest and the putting-by of food together for a long winter. In this culture, I just can't get excited about it. Too much (mostly women's) work, too much bland food, low blood sugar, football...Even the most lackluster shopping trip starts to sound pretty good by comparison. I make it a point to be thankful on a daily basis, so that's moot.

ETA: I worked a second job in retail for a few months at Christmas one year, and I found everything about it unpleasant. I'm surprised anyone makes a career of it.

Spartana

11-17-12, 7:10pm

I learned a few years ago, that the movie theaters are open on Thanksgiving and it is a big movie day. I was shocked.

Christmas day is also a huge day for movie goers. They even have opening day for many new movies starting christmas day. Huge lines. I remember even some retail stores were open on Christmas day last year. I think one was Big Lots. I know some grocery stores stay open on the holidays with limited hours but a retail place on Christmas day? That means the clerks had to be in there all Christmas eve after closing to restock the selves for the after-christmas sale. How can it be an after-christmas sale if it's held on christmas day?! Lots of other entertainment type places are open on holidays - including christmas. The local Indian casinos, Disneyland, etc... And they are all totally packed. And of course ski resorts will be packed with people too. I'm heading back up there myself tomorrow and will be spending both Thanksgiving and Christmas - and the time inbetween -skiing (if there is snow) and REALLY REALLY don't look forward to the crowds. All the stores will be open too so I will at least avoid those and avoid the ski crowds on the most crowded days.

I also worked on amost if not all holidays - a 24/7 year round job when in the service and then a government job that was also 24/7 year round. At least for that job I got paid overtime when working holidays unlike you do in the service. My sister works security like you did and does those 12 hour days and/or nights, weekends and holidays too but she does get triple time so holiday hours are highly desired. However, I am in total agreement that hoiday shopping and stores open all hours is just down right crazy. It's not like police or firefighters or medical people who need to be on the job, it's freakin' (or is that fackin' or frellin' :-)!) retail and service-type jobs. I can understand food places that serve holiday dinners (although I think those should be closed too) but really, will waiting an extra day or two to buy your new I-pad really matter? A day or 2 off work - with holiday pay - for workers would go along way towards morale and won't make a difference in retail sales. Those same people who line up Thanksgiving night to buy something at midnight, will still want to buy something if you don;t open until Friday or Sat.

SteveinMN

11-17-12, 8:30pm

I grew up in the New York metropolitan area in the '60s and '70s. We were Catholics, Protestants, Jews, atheists, agnostics, and the occasional Muslim and Hindu and Buddhist. The elementary school December concerts were "Christmas concerts". Maybe there were a few non-sectarian favorites like "Winter Wonderland", but the Catholics and Protestants somehow belted out "Hava Nagilah" and the Jews intoned about "Silent Night" (and about nine other Christmas classics) and somehow the wrath of whatever God we believed in did not strike us dead.

Not that I am in the least opposed to accommodation. Typically, accommodation is not that hard to implement if a little thought is applied to the situation. Sure, sometimes it's a big deal, but ... well, I'm ranging way off topic here, but I think we need to stop treating absolutely everyone as completely identical. Because, in return, I think we're seeing many people choose to preserve their interests (faith, culture, whatever) by stridently insisting that even exposure to any way but theirs is wrong Wrong WRONG. People who cannot bend merely break.

rosarugosa

11-17-12, 9:51pm

I'm an atheist and as far from a slave to holiday tradition as one can be while still being a member of the human race, but I like to think I'm in touch with reality. The reality I see is that most people in the US celebrate Thanksgiving and Christmas with family and friends with some type of get together/party/dinner whatever. I am dismayed that the retail establishment is taking that option away from its employees, and taking "consumers" away from their celebrations in order to shop for stuff they don't need.
And I just had a great idea for another thread!:idea:

RosieTR

11-17-12, 11:07pm

I'm less opposed to a store being open to just be open than for it to be pushing "the biggest sale of the year that you can't miss" type of stuff, and especially that they seem to be requiring employees to work. If it's a choice and there are benefits like extra pay or comp time, then that could be OK. But a "work Thanksgiving or you're fired" type of stuff is pretty crappy, and jerking the strings on the barely-making-it folks who will line up for a Wii-whatever etc because they just want to see their 12 yo really excited on Christmas, that's the crappy part too. I know some families just want to shop together or some people don't want to hang with their families or whatever. But that doesn't mean they have to be in Target or Walmart at 8pm on Thanksgiving, trampling someone else to get a i-something.

Interestingly, Kohls responded to me and said they will be opening at midnight on Friday. Not great, but better than Thurs eve and also interesting that I got a response from them and not Target or Walmart, who I also emailed.

ApatheticNoMore

11-17-12, 11:43pm

It really doesn't matter if one celebrates a holiday or not. It's better to have a day off that to work, and I think almost all employees would agree on this (even if they spend the entire day sleeping and never get out of bed! Even that sure beats working!). Therefore I feel a lot of sympathy for those who have to work rather than have time off, what about their choice to do what *they* want, which might not be to work! I feel their pain a lot more than my need to whatever on thanksgiving day (though I'm slightly tempted to coffee shops and restaurants the day after). But shopping and movies ugh, I went shopping today, I left with a reasonably priced shirt AND a really depressed blue mood, what I wish is there was more hiking outings on the holidays, I generally leave those in a *good* mood instead of a bad one. If it doesn't rain the weather will be great, not too hot, not too cold, fall follage, it's often the best weather of the year around here. But I shopped today because I definitely won't be shopping (other than food) from thanksgiving till xmas. The devil himself couldn't make me.

Tradd

11-18-12, 12:28am

It's been some years since I was in a store in the holiday rush, aside from Target (I mostly grocery shop there) or Walgreens. Shopping of any sort that can't be easily gotten at those two places is done online (Amazon).

Zoebird

11-21-12, 3:46am

I think on this in three ways:

1. there's a change in culture in terms of business -- a lot of small businesses do pare back hours during holidays or close because they plan for it and can make that decision as an independent business owners. Whereas, a lot of bigger businesses make decisions from on-high that are not driven by local markets or local people and what their needs may be, as well as having a certain advertising might to push sales, they can pretty much be big gorillas.

2. i think that if people would consider consuming a lot less in general, then large businesses would realize that staying open longer hours on these days (or normal hours) with larger than a skeleton crew, or staying open at all, is simply more expensive than closing. But, this requires all of us "consumers" to make a decision about it. It's certainly possible for individuals to decide to NOT shop in these places on these days (or not shop at all on these days at these places), and for this to go away due to market lack-of-demand.

3. as a business owner, I am actually just responding to my market. I'm learning about it too.

When I moved here, everyone told me to shut down for 6-7 weeks over the summer (usually first/second week Dec to end of Jan). Most yoga studios do, and the business that I purchased (massage) did too. But, the two (and now three) hot yoga studios remained open, just closing on christmas day and new years day usually.

So, first year, I went ahead and opened in the 3rd wk of Jan, and things were gangbusters. This was a week -- sometimes two -- before the other studios, except the hot ones. Then when we got to December, I ran through to the weekend before christmas and had a soft opening in the first full week (after new years) with a soft, 5 class schedule. Those classes had about 6-10 people in them-- making them worthwhile to hold IMO -- and then went full schedule in the second week. Those went gang busters!

This year, I'm doing the same two weeks off, but doing full schedule that first week back (7 Jan), and looking at doing a skeleton schedule over christmas/new years next year and then we'll take a holiday at another time of year (which we prefer anyway).

And next year, I'm looking at doing a skeleton schedule over the holidays (one class per day save christmas day/new years day) across those two weeks, and then full schedule before and after. It will tell me whether or not there's a market or demand, and I think that's important to know anyway, too.

I feel like if there are 6-8 people who want a yoga class, then it's worth running because it's some revenue in a time that would normally be dead.

Merski

11-21-12, 6:22am

citrine

11-21-12, 8:43am

I agree, instead of buying things people need to handle their stress levels. In the first year of business, I was not going to work during the holidays....I am the busiest during that time bringing in 15-20 clients a week who need to de-stress!

creaker

11-21-12, 9:18am

I'm wondering if retailers will eventually sabotage themselves. As "Black Friday" ends up getting smeared across the month of November, I would think the whole concept will eventually become meaningless.

SteveinMN

11-21-12, 3:29pm

As "Black Friday" ends up getting smeared across the month of November, I would think the whole concept will eventually become meaningless.
I think Black Friday eventually will not be "the" day to shop, but will be the day that marks the official start of the holiday shopping season, similar to the way Memorial Day (in the U.S.) marks the official start of summer. Not that there aren't special shopping days and summery events before the calendar days -- or even that these are the official days (summer really starts with the Summer Solstice); these days simply have emerged as the chronological mileposts, if you will.

nordette

11-21-12, 3:40pm

I don't patronize any retail business on holidays. I used to do a quickie grocery run in the past but I quit doing that as well. I do hang out at bars though (along with the other misfits). When I worked retail I always signed up for every single double shift for every holiday. The pay was extra and I didn't mind it. I still would do the same if I worked in retail.

That said, if my coworkers want to do a walkout or a protest of some sort, I would join them out of solidarity. I do think that workers (especially at the bottom rungs) are exploited and I will do whatever I can with my limited capacity to support their right (and desire) to a saner working environment.

cindycindy

11-22-12, 10:28pm

Speaking for myself I NEED yoga and the calm it brings to me because of the christmas season! I had a yoga teacher that did a special destress class where we did it all on our backs and only simple stretches with the lights way down low with candles and very beautiful music and then went through a longer than usual vispasana (? rest)& guided meditation about winter and the longest night. It was lovely and restorative.
I agree. A yoga studio aroune me does a class on Thanksgiving morning and it's a great start to a day that will most likely be spent overeating and stressed with relatives. (Shivasana = restful posture)

Zoebird

11-23-12, 2:57am

I see how it is. Walmart etc workers "should" have a day with their families, but yoga teachers should hold classes so that clients aren't stressed over the holidays. It's still work (and no holiday) for us, yo.

LOL

truthfully, I've worked holidays -- and by that I mean pretty much every holiday.

I even taught on my wedding day and day after my wedding because I couldn't get people to substitute for me -- which was really catty of them, don't you think? not even the studio owner would 'sub' for me at his own studio on my wedding day or day after my wedding? and in irony, most of those teachers both attended my wedding AND attended class the next day to 'release some stress.' anyway. . . yoga teachers are effed up people. don't be fooled! we're all nutters.

Anyway, living here has been. . . weird. Like, I haven't worked a sunday in pretty much 3 years, right (well, I mean, if you don't count when I had the baby that first month, then I worked a class each day Tues-Sat, and some sundays, but lets just assume that year was like all the others), except the one I worked in Australia, and then there's the fact that there are about a zillion holidays here -- and so I'll do one class on those days or none. . . so I do take "MLK" styled days as holidays because everoyne is out of town. . . and then there's that whole TWO WEEKS at christmas, WTF is that? LOL

Anyway, it's weird. people holiday all the time here. it's like, you finish a holiday, and then there's a holiday, and thank goodness, because everyone needs a holiday from their holiday, right?

ApatheticNoMore

11-23-12, 4:37am

I see how it is. Walmart etc workers "should" have a day with their families, but yoga teachers should hold classes so that clients aren't stressed over the holidays. It's still work (and no holiday) for us, yo.

not to me, out of solidarity with all workers in the country, I will not spend money on thanksgiving day except ... well look if I had an emergency accident and needed a pharmacy perscription (got serious burns and needed burn cream say), something like I would go to a pharmacy, if I got a bad case of food poisioning and needed OTC imodium, ok I'd probably go to a pharmacy. Heck even if I ran out of TP, I'd probably hit the store, luckily I now have an emergency stash of it :). So I appreciate the need for hospitals and at least a few drug stores to be open.

For stress relief today I went out for a walk in a natural place, it is my ritual and what I have done the last few years before the thanksgiving meal, to the same place every time as well. I took I walk, I sat in an oak tree and contemplated, I lay down in the ground in the fallen leaves below and oak tree and listened to the birds chirp.