Renters Unite!

[Life_is_Simple]

It seems like a lot of Simple Living people own houses, and are paying off, or have paid off mortgages.

Who are the Renters here, and what different challenges do we face?

For me, I think about how nice it would be to have a paid-off house, where the monthly expense would go away. But then I also think, I don't have to mow, plow snow, make renovations, and that could be expensive. On the other hand, it would be nice to have a house with cats and dogs.

What are your thoughts on Renting? Pros and Cons? Financial, and Living-Experience-Wise?

[Kestra]

Well, we rent - 2 BR apartment in a large building. However I want to buy a condo this spring. I'm having a hard time not focusing on the cons:
- don't have our own washer/dryer
- can't make any changes to our appliances, flooring, etc
- no private yard (I'm not a fan of the balcony because of the 10th floor height)
- to bring groceries in it's a bunch of narrow stairs from the parking lot, then 2 doors, elevator, hallway, another door. I would love this to be easier.
- have to see people in the elevators (super introverted) when I want to be home and alone
- parking is uncovered - very cold and snowy here
- only 1 bathroom
- not enough space - everything is full of clutter even though we aren't big into stuff

Pros:
- we can just go away whenever we want - don't have to worry about pipes freezing or anything if the furnace dies, like can happen in a house
- 10th floor is really secure
- we don't have to pay for any repairs/wait for repair people
- this particular building is very quiet, but that's obviously not always the case

I want to buy a 3 BR, 1.5 BA two-story plus basement condo. Which ends up being a bit cheaper in the long run, at least for the fixed expenses and +/- how condo prices go and inflation is for rent and utilities, insurance, which are all unpredictable factors.
But for a similar amount of money we'd get more living space, a little yard, our own entrance, covered parking, extra BR and bathroom. A bit more hassles with the interior, but no snow shoveling or yard work, which neither DH nor I want to do when we work full time.

[Tammy]

I love renting. We owned several homes for 20 plus years while raising kids. Still own a condo, rented to one son.

The 2 of us live in 650 square feet. First floor, pool view, one bedroom. Laundry in our unit. Wood laminate floors. Huge public spaces (pool, hot tub, living room, game room, office with computer and printer, work out room) when we want them with no bother from us to keep them nice.

In phoenix urban center. We consider the downtown our backyard. Again without effort from us.

Phoenix was recently featured in a san Francisco paper as a sleeping giant, waking up. We love living here and being part of that process.

Only need one car cause we bike almost everywhere. Plus there's the light rail.

We pay 1100 total ... Rent, utilities, everything except cell phone is in that amount.

We save hundreds a month by not having 2nd car.

I can't see any advantage, at this life stage, to living in a regular house.

[Spartana]

I own a paid off house. Approx. 1000 sf with 3 small bedrooms, 2 bath, two car garage, and large front and back yard. It is in original condition from the 1950's. I share it with my sister and a couple of dogs.

For me, the house is too big, too much work and too expensive/time consuming to maintain. Besides the regular chores like yard care and house cleaning, there is always something breaking, needing repairs and replacement - new roofs, new furnace, new a/c, termites, wood repairs, etc... Seems like an endless (and expensive) "to do" list. And besides lots of maintenance and expensive repairs, there is the cost in terms of my life energy to do them - or track down and pay someone else to do them. So your free time is much less.

Then there are the ever rising property taxes ,insurance (I have 3 insurance policies - fire, earthquake, umbrella liability), and usually extra utilities that you pay (sewer, water, trash, gas, electric, cable, internet) many that are included if you are renting. Then there can be home owners association dues and special assessment taxes like Mello Roos, school funding, fire fighting fees, etc.. All of which home owners pay but renters don't. Then there are the actual costs just to buy a house - fees for points, appraisals, inspections, etc... that can add on thousands of dollars to the purchase price. Then the fees to sell - agent fees of around 6%, escrow fees, etc... So both buying and selling reduces your profits. Then there is the hassle-factor and time required to buy and sell a house. Can take many many months unlike just moving out of a rental with 30 days notice (assuming you don't have a long lease). And if you have to move fast for some reason (job transfer, ill parents or kids), you may end up paying for 2 places for a long time (and double all those other mentioned expenses) until you can sell. Then there is the just lock up and go factor - more difficult to do when you own a house vs. a rental - and more worrisome if, like me, you are a worry-wart about your "largest" investment. And is it an investment? Can be, might not be. Depends. Then there is the fact that a large sum of your money will be tied up in the house and not accessible if you want it (house rich and cash poor). Then the factor of the 'hood going bad/changing or the neighbors are crazy, etc... and you no longer like it there. With a rental you can usually move much quicker then trying to sell a house in an area that has gone "bad". And often you can afford a nicer property in a better area if renting, then you could if you were buying. And then the various "acts of God" that can damage or destroy your house and your insurance won't cover it. So you are left not only with a house you can't use, but you still have to continue to pay the mortgage, property taxes, etc...

So owning a house can be great, but there are lots of other factors besides just the house payment to consider. Once my pets are gone I will rent a small place - or if I buy again, it will be an inexpensive little condo where you have a lot of the same advantages as you do renting (but many issues with buying a condo too - some very scary!) and some of the advantages of owning.

[Tradd]

I rent a small 1BR privately owned condo (owner got married after a few years of ownership and moved into his wife's 2BR place). I'm into my 5th year. Landlords are very good about proactive maintenance (getting furnace/central a/c checked out before winter/summer). They replaced the original (25 yo) washer, dryer, and fridge after I'd been here maybe 6-7 months. My rent has never gone up. I think they're just thrilled to have a good, quiet tenant who pays rent on time. They've asked me to renew each year.

I don't like gardening, fixing things, etc. This works just fine for me. Aside from the issue a year ago when the building was sinking, per the engineers, and we all had to get out for about three weeks last December (including Christmas), for repairs (including internal) to be made, it's been a pretty good experience. The landlords had a friend, recently married, who still had her furnished condo nearby (she'd moved into her DH's place), so she offered her place for me to stay in, which worked out great for my landlords, as they didn't have to put me up in an extended stay (the friends I had who offered to put me up would have doubled my commute to work). They even gave me $20 for the laundry room, since I have an in-unit W/D.

I've never owned. This works out just fine, as I can pick up and move if/when I want at the end of my lease.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I rent, mostly because that *is* living within my means. Pros: Not having any repairs is good, I can't imagine spending my weekends on repairs instead of rest or play. Of course rent is cheaper than mortgage. The flexibility to move for work is good (of course I'm stupidly commuting now, I have my reasons in this particular situation but ... it still often seems stupid), but in general yes, it might be necessary to move to where the jobs are and I can. The future is so uncertain (just the economy and stuff) so it's really hard to make the decision to put down roots so finally as buying property is. And I have pretty much zero desire to do interior decorating!

Cons: I like to garden. I miss: a yard. I really miss that one. I only have a small patch of dirt outside. I'd like to grow foods, and pretty plants. Condos just have no appeal, ok they might make sense purely financially, but having a mortgage with no yard and if you get bad neighbors seperated by a mere wall, you can't even more away! Sounds like the worst of all worlds. I'd sometimes like a little more privacy so I can play music louder or whatever (again a house, no condos!). I would't mind doing something like co-housing with a bit less privacy either though, but I've only ever seen those costing money I don't make also. Once in a while the neighbors are annoying (but that could happen even with a house and they're really not particularly bad - the most complaints I have against one of them is a little cigarette smoke sometimes sneaks in my bathroom!). I do worry about the thing financially, like maybe renters should be saving more than home buyers, because they aren't building up equity and so on and maybe it will come back to bite me, even though of course it's much cheaper on a monthly basis now. I sometimes miss being able to make energy efficieny upgrades and so on, but it's not like energy use on a small rental here is that much anyway. But yea if I had a house and money to put into it, I'd be looking into solar panels and who knows what.

[JaneV2.0]

I can see the practical benefits of renting, but I can't get around the idea of living in someone else's property that they can "inspect" at any time. (More like "invade" if you're the private type.) I've rented without incident, but I like as little outside interference as possible in my life. (For some reason, this doesn't affect the appeal of my hotel fantasy...)

[Miss Cellane]

I can see the practical benefits of renting, but I can't get around the idea of living in someone else's property that they can "inspect" at any time. (More like "invade" if you're the private type.) I've rented without incident, but I like as little outside interference as possible in my life. (For some reason, this doesn't affect the appeal of my hotel fantasy...)

I can understand that feeling, but I have to say in 20+ years of renting, no landlord has ever wanted to inspect my apartment while I was living in it. Frankly, with a few of them, the major problem was getting them to come over and make needed repairs.

In the US, most states have regulations forcing landlord to give tenants notice that they will be entering the apartment, unless there is an emergency. And that's reasonable--if water is pouring down from my neighbor's bathroom into my apartment, I would want the landlord to come into mine if that meant the flood could be stopped.

I understand that in other countries, landlords do inspect their properties yearly, and I don't think I'd like that very much.

My main complaint about renting is noisy neighbors. You never know when you are going to get one.

[pinkytoe]

We own for now. Best case scenario for us would be to own but much smaller yard and house. The only case in which we would rent is if one of us passes away or if our finances dictated selling the house. Why own? I love to garden and we have too many animals to rent. Our mortgage and taxes are cheaper than rent at least in this area. Also don't like the lack of privacy at many rental apartments. I wish there was a network (there probably is) that would allow homeowners to share their yards with renters who love to garden. The practicality of renting though can't be denied - one can up and leave without worrying about things, call the landlord when things break, etc. Neighbors are an issue whether you rent or own.

[Float On]

I think both are great.
We own and its a great place for raising our kids. I have plenty of room for gardens and chickens, there's 40 acres of woods behind us and empty acre wooded lots on each side of our acre. But I'd like to rent too and we'll probably sell when the kids get in college. Sometimes renting seems so much simpler. Over the years we've refinanced and 2nd mortgaged (DH's decision for increasing his business and adding equipment---very stupid thing to do and I told him so) I don't ever see us making a profit on this house.

[Zoebird]

We rent because, like ANM, it's within our means.

The pros for us are the ability to move when we want/need to -- we are constantly learning about how we live and what our needs are. So, when we develop a need or discover one, we can move to a new place and see how that goes.

Example, DH and I wanted a little yard to let DS loose. So, we moved from our 1 br place w/o small yard to a place with a little yard and more neighborhood-y. Now, we are noting that the commute is a bit much, and DS doesn't really use the yard (and I don't really care for it all that well, either). And, it might do better for DS to have his own room. So, we are looking at our options in terms of what will meet all of our needs. Being able to move is really helpful.

While the cons are things like not being able to decorate the way we want or getting things fixed when they should be, etc, overall, our landlords have taken good care of the properties and we've been able to live well in these spaces.

[Square Peg]

Well, we rent - 2 BR apartment in a large building. However I want to buy a condo this spring. I'm having a hard time not focusing on the cons:
- don't have our own washer/dryer
- can't make any changes to our appliances, flooring, etc
- no private yard (I'm not a fan of the balcony because of the 10th floor height)
- to bring groceries in it's a bunch of narrow stairs from the parking lot, then 2 doors, elevator, hallway, another door. I would love this to be easier.
- have to see people in the elevators (super introverted) when I want to be home and alone
- parking is uncovered - very cold and snowy here
- only 1 bathroom
- not enough space - everything is full of clutter even though we aren't big into stuff

Pros:
- we can just go away whenever we want - don't have to worry about pipes freezing or anything if the furnace dies, like can happen in a house
- 10th floor is really secure
- we don't have to pay for any repairs/wait for repair people
- this particular building is very quiet, but that's obviously not always the case

I want to buy a 3 BR, 1.5 BA two-story plus basement condo. Which ends up being a bit cheaper in the long run, at least for the fixed expenses and +/- how condo prices go and inflation is for rent and utilities, insurance, which are all unpredictable factors.
But for a similar amount of money we'd get more living space, a little yard, our own entrance, covered parking, extra BR and bathroom. A bit more hassles with the interior, but no snow shoveling or yard work, which neither DH nor I want to do when we work full time.
Kestra, I see most of these cons specific to the place you are renting, not renting itself. Also, it seems like some of them would be true in a condo as well?

We rent a house, which gives us a yard and privacy. But we aren't on the hook when something goes wrong. And we can just move when the lease comes up.

The big downside for us has happened twice now: landlord wants to sell and needs us out. I suspect this is more common in single family homes, but we also had it happen in a duplex because the new owner wanted to move into our half of the duplex.

[Kestra]

Kestra, I see most of these cons specific to the place you are renting, not renting itself. Also, it seems like some of them would be true in a condo as well?



You are definitely right. OTOH this is the nicest place DH or I have rented. If I had a place more like Tammy described, I'd be pretty happy. Right now, I'm just comparing a very specific apartment to a very specific condo I want to buy (DH is undecided) so I'm focusing on the cons of current place vs. pros of the new place, too much. And in my area, if we rented a better place - 3 BR, yard, garage etc, it's definitely cheaper to buy. But that varies so much between locations.

[Spartana]

The big downside for us has happened twice now: landlord wants to sell and needs us out. I suspect this is more common in single family homes, but we also had it happen in a duplex because the new owner wanted to move into our half of the duplex.

I've this happen to many friend who have been renting houses or condos - a few even in small apt complexes - so it's definitely a downside to renting. While personally I would prefer to rent a small apt rather then rent or own (like I do now) a house because of the many reasons I posted earlier here, as well as that it suits my lifestyle much better, there is a huge sense of security owning over renting. Especially if the place is paid off. As long as you can make the tax payments, then you can pretty much get by on a small amount of money once your house is paid off. No one is going to kick you out and you can often get roommates to help financially or you can sell and downsize to free up some equity to live on, get a reverse mortgage, etc...

[Zoebird]

I keep pushing myself to let go of stuff so that moving is easier. Moving into our first place was simple: 8 bags. Moving out was a lot harder and sucked -- and we don't own that much! I packed the 8 bags, and we still had a fair amount of extra stuff (plus furniture).

I have this dream/goal of just getting everything down to the minimum in the house, so that if we had to move, it would be easy. :P But, I think i'm too lazy or something.