View Full Version : Meat eaters, would you please answer a few questions on grassfed vs feedlot choices?
Hi folks,
I'm back in school after a quarter-century out, and this semester I'm taking a class on The Human Dietary Niche, with Katharine Milton! This is very exciting. I have a term paper to write, so I decided to do some cooking experiments and try to calculate an actual cost per unit of nutrition, contrasting expensive grassfed meats with feedlot meats. This is how I'm doing it: buy as equal-as-possible weights of ground beef, steak, and chicken. Weigh. Remove surplus fat to get both as similar as possible. Weigh again. Prepare in exactly the same way, cook in exactly the same way with no added fat. Tonight, for instance, I have two chickens roasting, each in its own glass pan, side by side. When cooked, drain off drippings, nmeasure. Place in fridge for fat to separate. Weigh cooked meat - in the case of the chickens, I will remove the bones. This will give me a $ cost per lb of actual cooked meat. Then I will calculate, using published studies, the cost per unit of nutrition. I define the unit of nutrition as the RDA of that nutrient for a woman of my age and weight. I will do this for protein, B12, iron, zinc, and magnesium. It will be very interesting to see whether the big price difference in initial cost as-sold narrows, vanishes, or reverses when unit of nutrient is considered.
That's the background. I wanted to post a poll, but I have questions that can be answered Yes or No rather than a single question with multiple choice answers. Also, the more open format allows for commentary that would be very valuable input. I'd be happy to have the questions answered either within the thread, or through a PM. All poll results will be recorded anonymously in my paper, and I will provide the completed paper to anybody interested, as soon as it's finished, as well as posting an abstract to this thread.
Questions:
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
Thanks in advance,
Suzanne
Suzanne, I'd love to read the results of your study when you're done!
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly? - no. I consider feedlot meats too unethical to eat regularly. We buy grassfed/free-range, and wild Pacific fish instead of farmed fish, but use small quantities in meals. Meals are not based around a piece of meat; the meat is used for flavoring.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision? Yes - but only in choosing between free-range animals.
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats? Yes. The data I have seen indicates that they have a higher quantity of omega-3 fatty acids. Also, the animals were likely to be healthier and get more exercise.
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions? We don't buy feedlot beef anyway, so there wouldn't be an impact.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice? We don't buy feedlot beef anyway, so there wouldn't be an impact.
ApatheticNoMore
3-25-13, 1:23am
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
No. But I'm kind of fond of just ground beef, so I don't know if grass fed ground beef is really super fancy stuff (usually WF, sometimes farmers market or TJs). Pastured chickens are even more expensive, but I don't eat that much chicken anyway so I buy the pastured stuff from the farmers market. I think most lamb I buy is grassfed too.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
No. Not until you are getting into super expensive cuts, then sometimes I might shy away, not away from grassfed though, just toward cheap cuts or non-meat. Same way with pastured chickens - legs are a lot cheaper than breasts so last time I bought legs.
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
Yes, CLA, other fat composition, maybe some vitamins
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
Maybe. I'd feel even better about buying grassfed but maybe I'd also feel better about buying less meat (as long as I continue to stick to grassfed). So if it had any effect it might be buying a bit less meat.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
No, I'd probably still buy grassfed (though I admit if the advantages become more dubious it gets harder to defend). I think I'm more concerned with nutrition per calorie, than nutrition per dollar. Not because I'm working off some mathematical formula for maximum leanness or anything, I just I want my food to be nutritious is all (or at least 80% of it to be real nutritious - I'm not perfect in my eating).
I'll answer these as to how we were in the US, since NZ is different (there aren't feedlots).
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
No. We discovered the difference in price wasn't that great for the big increase in quality.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
Yes, in that we'll buy the "cheaper" cuts of grass fed, rather than the more expensive cuts. (same is true in NZ btw.)
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
Yes. The research indicates that this is the case, looking at the information collated by the Weston A Price foundation.
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
That's not really how we think about things, so no. Well, my husband probably does, but my brain doesn't work that way.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
Yes, it does. We did know this information before making the change over -- and in fact it's what made the change.
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly? NO
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision? NO
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats? YES, course I grew up on a farm that raised grassfed and I still try to buy half a beef from one of the neighbor farms that does the same (since dad gave up the cattle fields for foodplots for deer and wildlife and conservation prairie grass restoration projects).
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions? NO, I base decision on taste and treatment of animals. I know it costs more for me to raise chickens in time and effort and food for our table but I like knowing where my chickens came from and that they had a happy life while in my care.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice? Honestly, probably not except that I like knowing that the grassfed beef or my own chickens are not given meds/antibiotics unless needed.
Too expensive: No - I'm prepared to pay for quality nutrition. If I had less money I'd buy smaller quantities of qualtiy meat rather than move to feedlot meat.
Price per pound: Yes, it's a factor - I try to buy many of the cheaper cuts of quality meat (offal and cuts for slow cooking)
More nutritious - Yes, Particularly, I want the fatty acid composition of grass fed meat (more Omega 3s and fewer Omega 6s which are inflammatory).I don't want to eat antibiotics or growth promoters.
Cost per serving: affects my purchasing decisions but only within grassfed. I would not buy feedlot meat. If I did buy feed lot meat but discovered that the cost per serving or per nutrient were better with grassfed I would likely be willing to pay more up front knowing that it is better value.
Cost per nutrient: Ditto
Also, I factor in the nutrition and tastiness of the bones (I make bone broth from them) which are far superior in good quality meat. The protein (gelatin, collagen) and minerals I get from the bones give me another meal or two from a cut of meat on the bone which brings down the unit price. The difference in quality of the bones is very noticeable with chicken.
Interesting project - let us know your results.
IshbelRobertson
3-25-13, 9:38am
In advance, please excuse terse post.... i STILL haven't worked out the cut and paste options on the ipad!
1. I only buy grass fed, organic meats. Have done so for 25+ years.
2. Price is seldom a factor. However, if buying spring lamb, I will wait for the price to drop slightly.
3. I don't know if there is evidence, but I feel it is probably more nutritious. I certainly remember actively disliking some beef cuts I've eaten in the States due to it's unusual taste. However some US friends visiting the UK have had exactly the same reaction to our grass fed beef, so perhaps it's a case of preferring what you are used to?
4. I only buy organically raised grass fed meat.
5. N/A.
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
No. Looked at from a sustainability point of view, I consider feedlot meats too expensive in terms of environmental impacts and hidden subsidies to be a long-term solution. Locally-produced, ethically raised animals are "cheaper" in my reckoning, for the true costs that I am concerned with.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
See above.
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
I have no scientific data to draw upon. Certainly the animals I buy look healthier, live a low stress life, and end up tasting better than feedlot animals.
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
See above - my concern isn't the dollar cost, but the full cost.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
I'd like to know the full environmental/energy cost of production, without hidden subsidies and externalities, and I'd like to know the conditions the animals lived in, and how they were harvested and processed.
Thanks, folks! This is such good information!
Bae, I too would love to do a study of the full environmental and energy costs minus the subsidies and stuff like fast food chains forcing farmers to accept a price that is only fractions of a penny profit! It would take far more time than I have available for this particular paper. However, Simon Fairlie's book "Meat: A Benign Extragavance" looks at the big issues and debunks a lot of the myths like "You could float a battleship on the amount of water it takes to raise 1 steer"!
http://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairlie/dp/1603583246
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2024133,00.html
SteveinMN
3-25-13, 11:08am
Others already have provided the answers I would, but to make it an official data point:
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
Compared to feedlot meat/poultry, no. Beef still is a relatively expensive source of protein, though, in terms of overall carbon footprint; it's only its nutritional density and (to some extent) habit that makes it a worthwhile purchase for us.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
Yes. We seldom buy beef steak or lamb because of the price relative to tougher or lesser-known cuts.
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
Yes, particularly in Omega 3s and in the lack of antibiotics and other supplements. We find we also tend to eat less of them because they taste better -- we're as satisfied with less.
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
Yes, to a point (see question above on price per pound and answer below on "conventional" meat).
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
Probably not. Like the others, we tend to buy grass-fed/free-range/organic meat whenever possible. We don't like supporting factory farms or conventional meat production methods. I will admit, however, that I occasionally have purchased meat from the local grocery store because it was shortdated and a tremendous (like, 75%) bargain relative to its regular price. Everyone has a budget.
Suzanne, I'm curious whether you're collecting data from any other sources, or if you're intentionally giving a "Simple Livers" tilt to your information. People here are likely more mindful about many aspects of life than the average person at the supermarket, and clearly this applies to food choices as well.
Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
Yes.
When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
Price per pound is the only factor in my decision.
Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
Probably, but for me the difference is not worth the extra cost.
If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
Given that there is no way to determine that, based on how differently everyone might cook that piece of meat, and unless there were lots of specific information on how to reach the optimal serving/nutrition/satisfaction, that bit of information is not all that useful to me.
If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
It depends on how great the difference is, balanced against the costs.
The Storyteller
3-25-13, 2:34pm
I have an opinion or two about this one. :)
First thing I would mention is your subject heading could be better worded, so be careful translating it over to your paper as it is technically inaccurate and misleading. All beef cattle are grass fed for most of their lives. They are merely finished on grain or grass, so it would be more accurate to argue between grass finished or grain finished, at least for beef. I'm guessing you know that but don't want to confuse the issue.
On poultry, most birds are mostly fed fed a mixture of grains. Even if they are 100% on pasture like ours, their grass intake (also technically inaccurate, since most of their green diet consists of broadleaf plants rather than actual grasses) is going to be between 20% (for chickens) and 40% (for turkeys). The rest of it is grains. That doesn't mean pasturing doesn't mean a huge difference in the quality and taste of the meat. The greens, insects, worms and such they eat on pasture make an enormous difference.
Pigs don't really care for grass, but do eat greens and are omnivorous like birds and will eat even meat. The problem with pigs is the same with birds... confinement, or range. That is the chief question. Unlike cattle, birds and pigs can be raised 100% in confinement and fed only grains.
Goats will eat grass and grains, but actually prefer browse and weeds. I see beef farmers fighting weed problems, when all they have to do is throw in a few goats and never worry about most weeds again. The difference between my pastures and those of my neighbors is huge.
Sheep eat grass. As far as I know, confinement isn't really an option with sheep and goats, so those should probably be excluded from your study.
Questions:
1. Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
2. When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
3. Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
4. If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
5. If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
1. I grow and butcher most of my own, so, no, I do not. We eat mostly poultry, and I have a huge freezer full of meat. Stewers are even cheaper than roasters, as I can pick them up for a song at a poultry auction. Roosters are the bane of most backyard and small time chicken raisers, as there are only so many that are actually useful, unlike hens who produce eggs and offspring. You only need one roo for every 10 or 12 hens, whereas hatch rates are about 50/50. Folks are always unloading roosters for nothing at auction, and I can get a complete bird for as little as a dollar. A couple of weeks ago, a local farmer GAVE me 12 roosters. They are headed for the freezer this weekend. It costs about $10 to $12 to raise a heritage chicken to butcher age.
My meat birds cost me about $2 a pound to raise to butcher, so, comparable to confinement meat.
Beef and pork we do not raise ourselves, and buy it by the full or half carcass on the hoof from grass productions. It is expensive, but when you figure it out that you are paying the same for a t-bone as hamburger, it comes out pretty decent. Especially when averaged with our inexpensive poultry.
2. No.
3. No, not all that much, when using your measurements. When using mine (taken holistically and fat content/quality), then yes, considerably. The whole point of feed lot finishing is to pack on fat and get that marbling we moderns like so much. I like meat where I can trim off the fat off the sides, rather than having it laced throughout my steak. Additionally, chickens put on a completely different kind of fat when raised in confinement, as most of them are. And I agree with Pollan in Defense of Food... food needs to be looked at as a whole, not as its microscopic parts. In that sense, naturally raised meat is considerably better than feedlot.
And it is at least as important to consider what is NOT in that meat. Feedlot animals are eating GMO grains drenched in roundup (the whole point of genetic modification). Confined animals are pumped full of antibiotics, to both survive such unnatural confinement and because some genius figured out in the 60s that pumping animals with antibiotics (whether they need it or not) makes them grow faster and bigger. And cattle and hogs receive growth hormone implants when young, and supplemented with hormones as they age. When you eat their meat, you are eating those hormones.
4. No. Like others, my decision to eat the way I eat is an ethical consideration more than either health or cost.
5. I pretty much already do know, but consider it irrelevant as I reject food reductionism. You can't break food down to its parts to appreciate is value as a whole.
One thing you didn't mention in your survey is taste. Even if it wasn't better for me and more ethical, I would still do it for taste. There is nothing that compares to the effect of a well roasted pastured chicken on the palate.
Hi Rosemary, I'm asking the same questions wherever there is an opportunity. I'm not intentionally giving a Simple Livers tilt because what I really want to do is get a cost basis for an actual serving of cooked meat, and for each unit of nutrition under question. For example, if the RDA for a woman over the age of 50 is 46 grams (pulling the figure out of the air) and 2 oz of grassfed beef can supply that while it takes, again pulling a figure out of the air, 3 1/4 oz of feedlot beef, given the large differences in weight loss even under identical cooking conditions, then it might well be that the cost of grassfed beef is no more than that of the feedlot beef in terms of protein supply.
Actually, wherever I ask, there's a subset of people who are already strongly inclined toward grassfed beef and/or more mindful in general who choose to answer, so there's definitely a bias in response, which is in itself very interesting. My GSI thought it would be interesting to do an informal survey like this because it contrasts the ideas of price and value.
Thanks, Jilly! I very much appreciate your input.
Thank you for your in-depth response, Storyteller.
I am aware that "grassfed" is technically not the right term, but it is the term in commonest usage for cattle and other livestock eating pasture until slaughter, and is more likely to be understood and responded to than "pastured to finish". I have chosen to work out costs for only beef and chicken, as these are the meats most commonly eaten.
For the purposes of my term paper, I have neither the time nor the page allocation to do a full in-depth survey of the whole feedlot versus pasture paradigms, although I fully agree with you about humaneness, sustainability, pollution potential, and taste. What I'm getting at, basically, is that price and value are not necessarily the same thing, and also that cheap may not be the same as cost-effective or economical. By cooking the same amounts of meat in exactly the same way at the same time, I hope to somewhat lessen confounding effects of cooking practice so that differences in weight loss during cooking are likely to be due to the qualities of the meat. By calculating actual costs in monetary terms to get a day's supply of, say zinc, I'm hoping to show that products from animals raised in healthy humane conditions are good value.
Of course, I might be wrong, and the pastured products might cost more per unit of nutrition, but that is also worth knowing and certainly won't change my personal decision to eat them.
While I am a vegetarian, my husband is not and therefore I am the one who makes the purchase and preparation decisions in our household.
I found Bae's answers to your questions the same as I would write so I second everything he stated:
"Q - Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
A - No. Looked at from a sustainability point of view, I consider feedlot meats too expensive in terms of environmental impacts and hidden subsidies to be a long-term solution. Locally-produced, ethically raised animals are "cheaper" in my reckoning, for the true costs that I am concerned with.
Q - When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
A - See above.
Q - Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
A - I have no scientific data to draw upon. Certainly the animals I buy look healthier, live a low stress life, and end up tasting better than feedlot animals.
Q - If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
A - See above - my concern isn't the dollar cost, but the full cost.
Q - If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
A - I'd like to know the full environmental/energy cost of production, without hidden subsidies and externalities, and I'd like to know the conditions the animals lived in, and how they were harvested and processed."
Questions:
1. Do you consider grassfed meats too expensive to eat regularly?
No, but regularly for us is 1-2 times per week, not daily. We'd choose that no matter what kind of meat we would eat.
2. When deciding what kind of meat to buy, is price per pound a major factor in your decision?
Yes. We choose lesser per pound cuts, as well as small amounts.
3 . Do you think that grassfed meats are more nutritious than feedlot meats?
Yes, the data I have seen indicates lower Omega 6's. It's also easier on the land that it's raised on. Grass is a cheaper fodder than grain, and more appropriate for a ruminant to consume.
4. If you knew that a pound (raw weight) grassfed meat provided more servings when cooked than a pound of feedlot beef, would the cost per serving affect your purchasing decisions?
Perhaps.
5. If you knew the cost per unit of nutrient, as well as the number of ounces required to provide this nutrition, for the two kinds of meat, would this information influence your purchasing choice?
Perhaps. It's still a superior meat, so I'd choose to have less for my $$ than choose an inferior product.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.