This is a bummer..............

[CathyA]

http://www.wthr.com/story/23403785/2013/09/11/study-wind-farms-killed-67-eagles-in-five-years

[redfox]

Yes, it's sad. Of course, habitat destruction kills lots of birds, too. Wind generated energy is a solid thing. Finding a way to avoid bird deaths is needed.

[bae]

Most of the birds killed were Golden Eagles. Lovely bird. 79 killed in 16 years. Round up to 80. Assume they were all killed during the peak 5 years mentioned in the article too. 16 birds/year.

USF&WS estimates a Golden Eagle population in the USA of 30,000 birds. So the wind farms are killing 0.05% of the population yearly.

The Golden Eagle is listed on the IUCN Red List as a "Specied of Least Concern", meaning, well, there are a lot of them, and they aren't in danger.

[Rogar]

It is indeed a bummer and and maybe something can be done to help. But it needs to be put into perspective. Eagles die from many human related causes like collisions with power lines, road kill, poisoning from pesticides, lead poisoning, illegal hunting, and electrocution. They also suffer from declining prey species due to habitat loss. According to this article, there has been no decline in eagle numbers from 2006 to 2010 and it describes some of the other less publicized threats to eagle mortality. http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/endangered/species/golden_eagle.pd (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/endangered/species/golden_eagle.pdf)f

I wonder how much of this publicity is politicized. For example, you don't see headlines like thousands of eagles die due to power line collisions. It seems like when it comes to energy production there is really no such thing as clean energy, but it is more of what is the lesser of the evils.

[Alan]

I wonder how much of this publicity is politicized. For example, you don't see headlines like thousands of eagles die due to power line collisions. I believe all the publicity is political, exactly because prosecution is political. Oil & Gas companies are routinely fined large amounts and forced to take remedial measures to protect wildlife. The wind energy industry has been given a pass with exactly no prosecutions or fines. I wonder why that is?

As an example: http://www.birdingwire.com/releases/276965/


A Denver-based oil and gas company has been fined $22,500 in connection with the deaths of birds at the company's drilling facilities in Montana, Wyoming and Nebraska. The fine was imposed after SM Energy Company pled guilty to three misdemeanor violations of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

In addition to the fine, U.S. Magistrate Judge Carolyn S. Ostby placed the company on probation for one year and ordered it to pay $7,500 toward improvement of migratory bird habitat. Ostby also ordered the SM Energy Company to continue implementing a $300,000 remediation program intended to prevent future bird deaths at the company's facilities.

[CathyA]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have wind power. I just wish there were a way around having birds fly into them.

[bae]

I just wish there were a way around having birds fly into them.

Mount a couple of these around your wind farm, should eliminate the birds-flying-into-blades issue entirely....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Phalanx_CIWS_test_fire_-_081107-N-5416W-003.jpg/800px-Phalanx_CIWS_test_fire_-_081107-N-5416W-003.jpg

[ApatheticNoMore]

I wonder how much of this publicity is politicized. For example, you don't see headlines like thousands of eagles die due to power line collisions. It seems like when it comes to energy production there is really no such thing as clean energy, but it is more of what is the lesser of the evils.

Yes and there is no doubt in my mind that wind power is the lesser of evils and I'm willing to put up with it. That said if they spend a lot of money at it there are ways to reduce bird deaths it seems. In fact it's being forced by the courts on the largest wind power producer on their turbines in California:

"NextEra Energy Resources LLC, the largest U.S. producer of wind power, agreed to replace thousands of outdated turbines in California, ending a five-year legal battle with environmental groups that claimed the spinning blades are killing endangered birds.
Under a settlement announced yesterday, NextEra, a unit of Juno Beach, Florida-based NextEra Energy Inc., said it would install newer, more efficient turbines at its Altamont Pass wind farms. Using fewer systems will pose less of a risk to wildlife, the company said."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-07/nextera-replacing-thousands-of-wind-turbines-to-protect-birds.html

I think environmental groups are pretty misguided to target their efforts there (missing the forrest for the trees - extra costs on wind producers when so much of the damage of fossil fuel is not priced is not good), but they won I guess.

[Rogar]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have wind power. I just wish there were a way around having birds fly into them.

I hear you. Wind power is fairly new and maybe they will figure out some solutions. A few are here:
http://www.livescience.com/31995-how-do-wind-turbines-kill-birds.html

I volunteer as a counter during raptor migrations and the impact of wind turbines comes up in discussions quite often. One of our volunteers does baseline studies in proposed wind farm sites and seems to be pretty much of an expert. He always tries to put it into perspective by comparing bird kills to other causes of mortality. Which is what I was hoping to do.

[Suzanne]

I'm not saying we shouldn't have wind power. I just wish there were a way around having birds fly into them.

There is a way to avoid having birds fly into wind turbines, but it isn't likely ever to fly - forgive the pun. It involves decentralisation, and mounting horizontal axis turbines on the roof of every building. These long narrow tubular devices are efficient. However, it means getting away from the concept of the huge central station pumping power to its users.

Lately I've been wondering why turbines aren't set into freeway medians and busy city highways - cars shove a LOT of air around and there should surely be a bright mind who can find a way to harvest this turbulence with smaller units connected in chains. And then there are the subways. I take BART everyday, and the swooshing surge of air preceding trains into the station is pretty powerful.

[puglogic]

I hear you. Wind power is fairly new and maybe they will figure out some solutions. A few are here:
http://www.livescience.com/31995-how-do-wind-turbines-kill-birds.html

I volunteer as a counter during raptor migrations and the impact of wind turbines comes up in discussions quite often. One of our volunteers does baseline studies in proposed wind farm sites and seems to be pretty much of an expert. He always tries to put it into perspective by comparing bird kills to other causes of mortality. Which is what I was hoping to do.



I am with you, Rogar (a lot of us Coloradans are)

I believe that alternative energy producers, like traditional energy producers, should be required to make reasonable efforts to prevent wildlife deaths.

I also think that those who block alternative energy because of these things -- or because it "spoils" their precious view, or because the patch of barren desert the solar panels sit on might disturb some lizards they love -- need to take a few steps back and look at the bigger picture. Perhaps they would prefer fracking...because it isn't in their backyard.

[puglogic]

There is a way to avoid having birds fly into wind turbines, but it isn't likely ever to fly - forgive the pun. It involves decentralisation, and mounting horizontal axis turbines on the roof of every building. These long narrow tubular devices are efficient. However, it means getting away from the concept of the huge central station pumping power to its users.

Suzanne, I love these kinds of innovations: http://www.ridgeblade.com/about.htm

[flowerseverywhere]

there were lots of wind turbines where I used to live and many were opposed. Bird kill was one of the issues. There are areas where there are hills dotted with them. I thought they were kinda cool. Other issues include shadow flicker, the noise, and one day one fell, luckily hurting no one. An alternative would be for each of us to be the lowest consumers we can be. Nuclear power is not doing too great these days, fracking is a nightmare for those who live in the areas, coal is dirty, both in the mining and burning. I would love to see a huge conservation push but nary a word. I remember when there was one pair of nesting bald eagles in NY state, I took my kids to see them through binoculars and thought it might be the only time they would see a bald eagle in the wild but through aggressive reintroduction there are almost 200 nesting pairs.

[Rogar]

I believe all the publicity is political, exactly because prosecution is political. Oil & Gas companies are routinely fined large amounts and forced to take remedial measures to protect wildlife. The wind energy industry has been given a pass with exactly no prosecutions or fines. I wonder why that is?

As an example: http://www.birdingwire.com/releases/276965/

It indeed doesn't seem fair, but I suspect a $30,000 fine is pretty much water off a ducks back to an oil company.

You could also extrapolate to the fact that lead shot and pesticide manufacturers and users, and power line and pole operators seem to be given a pass.

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is a way to avoid having birds fly into wind turbines, but it isn't likely ever to fly - forgive the pun. It involves decentralisation, and mounting horizontal axis turbines on the roof of every building. These long narrow tubular devices are efficient. However, it means getting away from the concept of the huge central station pumping power to its users.

I don't believe it can't ever fly, but it's sometimes hard to get the economics to work. Who would fund these? What would be the economic incentive to have them on buildings? In many (probably most) places the economic incentives actually work AGAINST generating your own energy. Is it even legal to have them on buildings at present? Etc..


Lately I've been wondering why turbines aren't set into freeway medians and busy city highways - cars shove a LOT of air around and there should surely be a bright mind who can find a way to harvest this turbulence with smaller units connected in chains. And then there are the subways. I take BART everyday, and the swooshing surge of air preceding trains into the station is pretty powerful.

yes if we could get something like that funded.

Mind you until then I support "Big Wind Power", with a vengeance :).


An alternative would be for each of us to be the lowest consumers we can be. Nuclear power is not doing too great these days, fracking is a nightmare for those who live in the areas, coal is dirty, both in the mining and burning. I would love to see a huge conservation push but nary a word.

well conserve and then use green power. It's the whole reason wind power is so great is the other alternatives are so aweful. I also find hydroelectric preferable to most things.