what's reasonable level of intervetion for pet with cancer? [Archive]

sunnyjoe

11-1-13, 1:50pm

In April we adopted our friend's service dog. Gilly had been trained by Paws-with-A-Cause and had assisted our wheelchair bound friend for 10 years. He's an 85 pound black lab. He's gentle and friendly and very well behaved. He's a great friend to our daughters (age 5 and 7).

Sadly we've discovered that has has a mast cell tumor. It's large and in a location where complete removal is pretty much impossible. Treatment will probably involve chemotherapy and radiation.

I'm torn about how agressively to pursue treatment. I'm not sure how I feel about this level of care for a dog when it is not always available for people. I'm also concerned about the stress and detriment to his quality of life. He's already got a big weepy wound from the biopsy and he's had to spend two full days at the animal hospital and endure four car rides. I'm heard from other people at the clinical that their pets begin to hate coming in. There's also the issue of cost. We don't have pet health insurance and it's already cost $2000 just for all the work-up.

I guess I'm looking for other people's insights and experiences. I feel so sad that this lovely dog is coming to the end of his days. His former owner btw has since passed away. A sad story in itself.

reader99

11-1-13, 2:12pm

My husband had aggressive cancer treatment which amounted to months of torture. It bought him another year. I never asked him if he thought it was worth it. I wouldn't take such treatment myself, and I wouldn't put a dog through it.

sunnyjoe

11-1-13, 2:37pm

Part of me feels like I've already done too much. I don't know that I'd say the oncology vet is money driven but they are certian focued on the utmost treatment and
we have to actively "opt out" of the things we aren't ready for. Just yesterday she
ordered an add-on test to the biopsy. I said yes without asking the cost (my mistake!). Fortunately the office person called back and asked if I knew I'd concented to an additional $700. Eeep. And at that it was only of value if we go on with aggressive treatment.

I just called Paws and confirmed his age. He'll be 11 next March.

pcooley

11-1-13, 2:39pm

I'm afraid that I'm in the pets are pets column. I love my dogs, and if they were, say, hit by a car, I would rush them to the vet and not worry about the cost. However, I hear about ridiculous amounts of money being spent on pets' medical care. It seems heartless to put a dollar amount on what the life of a companion animal was worth, but I think if I was at the vet, contemplating treatment or euthanasia, my personal cutoff point would be somewhere between $500 and $800. (And I think my wife's limit would be lower). We might spend slightly more on the cat than the dogs. We do have young children, so our pets are not our kids. We usually budget about $60 a month for pet care -- that's food and vet for two dogs, a cat, a parrot, two cockatiels, and two chickens. We usually have to steal from some other part of the budget when the cat needs its yearly rabies shot. (Luckily for the dogs it's every three years).

I really don't know what various vet procedures cost, but $2000 for a workup seems more like human medical care.

Float On

11-1-13, 2:44pm

I personally would say (if in the same situation) that I've given my pet a very good life. They can't understand or say if they would want treatment and the pain and sickness from such treatment is not really that great quality of life. I would say goodbye in a kind and gentle manner.

It's the same choice I would make for myself as well.

pcooley

11-1-13, 2:48pm

It's the same choice I would make for myself as well.

I'd have to say that I've seen enough close friends die from cancer after going through expensive and debilitating treatment that my current intention is not to seek treatment personally if I ever get cancer myself. I don't know if that is the choice I would actually make if I was in that situation. I imagine it's easy to get swept along in the flood of doctors' recommendations and difficult to say goodbye to people you love.

CathyA

11-1-13, 3:18pm

What a difficult situation to be in! I would do alot for my dog and probably spend too much money on her. But at a point, taking into account what the total cost would be, and how much the dog would have to go through, and what her chances are of recovering.........we might decide that its just time to let nature take its course.
Sometimes I think this culture tries to avoid death at any cost......which isn't always good.
I'm not a big euthanasia person (for pets), so I would probably make him as comfortable as possible, and be with him until the end.

lmerullo

11-1-13, 3:46pm

I gotta ask - do you have the money to treat the dog? (Don't feel obligated to answer here, just ask yourself). Would it change your budget significantly? I would not easily go into debt for this type of situation, but some would.

Chemo is a difficult treatment. I'm not sure it would be something I would want for any animal, but especially since the larger dogs tend to have shorter lifespans - how much of a difference in lifespan would be gained? Quality of life - both during and after treatment?

If you said $X and they cut the tumor out, no side effects, etc - I would consider it differently, kwim?

bae

11-1-13, 3:48pm

I'd weigh the quality of life, the expected lifespan of the animal, the likelihood of success, and the cost.

I've done some rather heroic things for animals in the past, but they were younger and otherwise healthy. At a certain point with an aging animal you have to ask yourself are you doing this for the animal, or yourself.

The lifespan of a lab is 10-12 years. In your case, absent other knowledge, I'd lean strongly towards making your dog's last time as pleasant, comfortable, and happy as possible.

herbgeek

11-1-13, 3:51pm

I would pay a substantial amount for pain medication or other medications to relieve suffering, but I likely would not do chemo/radiation, as there is no way I could explain it to a pet and it just seems cruel to me. My cats are now 14 and 15, and should they get a debilitating illness, I would let them go as gently and painlessly as possible. I would not actively treat at this age.

goldensmom

11-1-13, 3:57pm

After many routine tests ($700), an x-ray showed that our 10 year old dog's lungs were full of tumors. We considered (made an appointment) taking her to cancer specialist with an initial cost of $2000 and treatment up to $8000 with little chance of extending her life beyond a month or 2. After much thought, we cancelled the appointment, took her home, cried, lost her, cried some more, mourned, accepted it and vowed never to get another dog. After some time had passed we got a puppy.

sweetana3

11-1-13, 4:28pm

I love my cats and have had many over the 40 years. I will not do costly aggressive treatment as the poor pet has not idea why we are doing this for them. They live in the moment and quality of life is very important. We also both worked and were not available to be with the pet to ensure emergencies were handled.

One of our current cats has a chronic sinus infection. They wanted us to spend $3,000 to diagnose (only) what the potential problem could be. I went to a third vet and told him the story and asked for research and creativity. The cat is now on a human medicine that is working so long as he continues to receive it. We did consider euthanasia when he lost 20% of his weight due to being sick and was so miserable. But the drug helped, he started eating and is much happier. So we will continue until.....

But the $3,000 was crazy.

jennipurrr

11-1-13, 5:48pm

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. My lab had cancer when he was six years old. The vet was not sure what it was at the time as it was showing as a huge blockage on the x-ray. At that point we thought it could be anything, even that he hate a chunk of Styrofoam. He had surgery and it was his spleen, and they knew it was cancer. My husband and I were very split on the chemo. It seemed like it was incredibly expensive, extend his life just a bit, and he likely would suffer through it. Then they figured out quickly the cancer had metastasized and so there was no option for chemo. The surgery cost us about $1,000 and I do not regret that because there was a very real possibility he would be healthy afterwards and live out a normal doggie life, and he was a fairly young dog at the time. I am not big on most life saving measures for elderly in general, no matter what the species.

cdttmm

11-1-13, 6:42pm

My first cattle dog had three bouts of cancer and we chose to treat him each time. The first time he had a cancerous tumor on his upper gum. We had it removed along with a piece of his jaw in order to prevent it from returning. He made a complete recovery, this was when he was 9 years old. Th second time he had cancer it was a soft tissue cancer in his right front leg. An aggressive tumor that could not be entirely removed with surgery. Instead of chemo or radiation, which were not guaranteed to result in complete remission, we chose to have his leg amputated at the shoulder. He made a complete recovery and lived happily as a three-legged dog for the remainder of his life. He was nearly 14 years old when he had his leg amputated. At age 17, he was diagnosed with lymphoma. We opted for chemotherapy. He was a happy dog throughout his chemo treatments, never seeming to experience any negative side effects. His cancer went into complete remission for a short period of time. When it did return, our vet advised us that we could try a different protocol, but that it was unlikely to make a difference. When it was obvious that his quality of life was deteriorating we put him to sleep. He was nearly 18 years old. I could go back and calculate how much we spent on these various treatments, but it doesn't really matter. He was worth every penny and more.

try2bfrugal

11-1-13, 10:44pm

I have always spent too much in vet bills that did nothing but torture elderly pets instead of letting them pass peacefully. At eleven I would pay for pain medication and make your pet's last days as happy and as pleasant as possible.

With the last two pets DH and the kids always talked me into going for the medical heroics. Last time a vet tech took me aside when the vet wasn't there and said not to put my very elderly pet through this. His chance of living more than a few months at his age were zero. She let me know that basically the vet was just recommending things that were racking up the bills. The tech was the one with my pets best interest at heart and I followed her advice.

BarbieGirl

11-1-13, 11:28pm

Interesting and timely question for me. My dog was limping and in pain and after $900+ for tests and X-rays it was determined that he needed knee surgery for a torn ligament. They couldn't repair it, but could knot sutures around my dog's bones to keep the leg together. The surgery was $3,200 and counting post surgery. He's on bed rest for a month.

My Superdog, Zoozoo is a 12 year old Shih Tzu and I gladly forked over the cash. Had it been for cancer and chemo I wouldn't have done it. I would have kept him comfortable and pain free until the end but that's it.

Him being healthy otherwise, we went ahead with the surgery. He is our Superdog and I owed him a debt of gratitude for his constant companionship to my father as he lay dying. He never left his side and would refuse to leave Dad's side in his last days. He was remarkable.

iris lilies

11-2-13, 12:43am

My first beloved bulldog got mast cell tumors at age 5 or 6. I treated it with surgeries (3 of them) and later chemo for many months for a cost of $5,000. The money didn't matter, but I am now very sorry that I put her through those surgeries.

Since she didn't seem to mind the chemo, though, so I don't regret that. But I would not do it again for another dog.

And I wouldn't do it on a 10 year old lab. Mast cell cancers are common in labs and bull breeds.

CathyA

11-2-13, 9:01am

sunnyjoe..........you're probably realizing now that its a totally personal decision. What has worked for some here, hasn't worked for others.
I wish you the best in what you decide. Its a very difficult position to be in.

sunnyjoe

11-2-13, 10:30am

Thank you everyone for so many insights. I think I got caught up in "we can fix this" and didn't figure in the stresses it would cause. Not to mantion that at this stage "fixing" it is unlikely to buy much time. Fortunately my husband and I are on the same page about this. We will go forward with pain control and keeping him as comfortable and happy as possible. Right now Gil has a great appetite and a waggy tail :)

For us the cost wasn't the primary limitation (years of simple living!) which made it a little more complicated. Even being able to afford heroics I don't think they are the right answer for us this time.

Paws let me know he was one of six in his litter. All with "G" names and all presumably in service of some sort. I wish I could see where his sibs ended up!

iris lilies

11-2-13, 11:45am