okay---Big Al posted some cartoons ta help you coupon-cutting kids make sense o' things(thanks, Alfred), so yeah---here's a cxartoon that will help put stuff that you kids say is unwarranted expansionism, into a realistic perspective(see photo)
okay---Big Al posted some cartoons ta help you coupon-cutting kids make sense o' things(thanks, Alfred), so yeah---here's a cxartoon that will help put stuff that you kids say is unwarranted expansionism, into a realistic perspective(see photo)
I agree that free speech must be protected. Where I have difficulty is how to draw the line between protected free speech, however hateful it may be, and inciting violence, in the "clear and present danger" sense. Different people see threats differently. Those lines are difficult or impossible to draw cleanly, and this issue is one that does not fit into the right/wrong columns, but somewhere in the grey middle, on a case-by-case basis. There are always going to be challenges to free speech, and pushback to those challenges, and the Supremes have a checkered history on this. I don't expect improvement, as we are edging closer and closer to the removal of that free speech (and free press!!) right, by the very people who so recently purported to be its champion.
I too have a hard time distinguishing between protected speech and the “inciting violence” kind of hate speech but one important factor is “imminence.” But I will say that speech like that its pretty far on the spectrum of what is considered “hate “ speech today. It is important to debate how we allow this kind of speech on the far end of the spectrum because that’s how we can expand our knowledge and tolerance.Originally Posted by early morning
yes, I think we need to as a society expand our tolerance of protected hate speech. I am shocked at the surveys I see of people who hang out on social media who are quite certain protected speech speech should be shut down by the government. The Nazi protests in Skokie as example? They don’t fly with today’s youth, lock them up. Westboro Baptist Church hanging out with their hateful signs? The Redditors think they need to be shut down by police.
There were university people protesting in St. Louis yesterday on the campus of Washington University to protest the Trump Administration’s reduction in science funding. The St. Louis Reddit sub was all ablaze about how Their opportunities for protesting are being constrained. But I didn’t see that the opportunities were constrained at all, peaceful daytime protesting seemed fine on this private campus as long as the campus administrators allowed it, and they did.
I don’t understand how these young people can’t draw a line between their own protesting and their insistence that Nazis can’t hold signs in a similar protest.
It's part of the good/evil, right/wrong slant everything is given at the moment, at least by many. And government figures are leading the way. And there IS evil, at least as I define it, and I struggle mightily with labeling it, calling it out, and being seen as one of the very people trying to shut down "those other" people. Can we have free speech without basic civility? Can we have free speech in a society that is becoming more polarized than ever? Can we support people saying and condoning and even championing ideas we find beyond repugnant, and still have a civil society? How can we re-boot the idea of the common good, especially as schools are not allowed to discuss it, and more and more people want the government to financially support religious bigotry and a return to patriarchy - which we never really even put behind us?? Education used to be the "great leveler" of the playing field, where everyone should have been taught the same basics, with an emphasis on thinking skills. That apparently produced too many people who actually THOUGHT, so now that is being abolished in favor of - what? Sheeple skills. Follow the preacher/leader. Don't ask questions, and don't allow dissenting voices. And above all, OWN the libs! Whatever the hell that means.
Sorry. Sometimes one just needs to rant. Basically, free speech matters, whether you're on the right or the left, and discussion with input from both sides, from people who honestly have the best interests of our Democracy and of We the People at heart, needs to happen. Often. Everywhere. about many things. At all levels of government, society, and economic class. We should not be afraid of what we say in such discussions, understanding that this is at the very heart of our social contract. And right now, I am ashamed to say, I am very afraid to do that. I see too many parallels to other, ah, historically "interesting" times - JP's turnings, as it were.
Last edited by early morning; 3-10-25 at 11:07am.
I agree, early morning, there is already a huge chilling effect. NYT had a story about the list of words now forbidden:
‘Chilling’: NYT reveals list of words banned by Trump’s 'anti-woke' initiatives
and it includes such words as "women" and "sense of belonging"
‘Chilling’: NYT reveals list of words banned by Trump’s 'anti-woke' initiatives (msn.com)
Government censorship of free speech in action, on a massive scale.
I saw that list. Chilling indeed.
"Do any human beings ever realize life while they live it--every, every minute?" Emily Webb, Our Town
www.silententry.wordpress.com
So the paper that forced an editor to resign for having the temerity to print a Tom Cotton OpEd is suddenly concerned about free expression? Where have they been for the last decade or two? When the FBI was jawboning social media to quash stories those in power didn’t like? When the Associated Press stylebook and university administrators were publishing lists of proscribed words? When the government set up a Disinformation Governance Board? When the media was was so servilely complicit in covering up Biden’s rapid mental decline?
You have to wonder about the motivation behind this newfound championing of free speech.
yes, I was going to ask if those here were at all concerned during the Biden administration when all of that censorship was taking place, some of it at the hands of the government. My guess is no ‘cause I don’t recall any discussion saying this stuff is bad on this forum from those who are now concerned about protected speech and institutions that are closing it down prior to January 2025.
I want to take a moment to promote the new, young, free speech organization called FIRE, The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression. They are taking up causes the ACLU once did generations ago, but the ACLU has lost its way.
FIRE concentrates efforts on college campuses for two main reasons. One is that they’re young and new and do not have a large treasury to address all of the free speech issues in our society so they focus on one area.The second one is that they believe so much of thought and speech control starts on campuses and trains up free speech deniers.
They are working both “sides” of the political spectrum meaning they will defend the rights of college Kids for free assembly in protest, and they will defend the Jewish kids who are denied free assembly and entry to their campus libraries by Muslim protesters.
https://www.thefire.org/
So throw them a few bucks. I think in this Trump administration they’re gonna find plenty of material to keep them busy.
Last edited by iris lilies; 3-10-25 at 12:01pm.
We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Here's another story about word banning, this time from a university reacting to Trump's threat to remove their funding if they did not remove DEI language:
NC university’s first response to DEI ban? Striking use of ‘race,’ ‘equality,’ ‘white’ (msn.com)
One of the schools where I teach canceled a DEI presentation the week after the election.
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